g-dawg

Next Move - Trade Hooper for 3rd rounder

270 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

He's better than decent...

He will have to be a lot better than "better than decent" to justify what he will get paid in open market, IMHO.

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4 hours ago, Refried Beans said:

For all those that want to hold on to every player on our roster remind me again, what's our record? And how many Super Bowl trophies we won? If we get a 2nd round pick for Hooper trade him, clean house this includes Falcons front office and scouts and load up picks for the next Team President/GM and HC. 

That's not what the original post was. It was trade him for a 3rd rounder.  Big difference.  I wouldn't even do it then though.  He's young, good, and a nice piece to build around.

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1 minute ago, g-dawg said:

He will have to be a lot better than "better than decent" to justify what he will get paid in open market, IMHO.

That was in response to another post. The fact is, he's one of the best TE's in football. That doesn't mean you have to get crazy with his salary.  If he wants more than what the powers that be deem he is worth, let him go, and pick up a comp pick.

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3 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

lots of folks are overpaid - doesn't mean agents don't use those contracts.

I am the one being REALISTIC about what the market will bare - you are just bending down the market value because you HOPE the Falcons can sign him and he won't make it painful.

I promise you Hoop's agent won't be using vaseline - he's going in dry!

Well it seems like the Falcons have an eye on what they want to sign Hooper for and don't want to create a hole just to have more cap space and the ability to throw picks at the defense. 

I'm intrigued to see what Hoop ends up with. I'm not bending the market down in Hope's that we get a steal. If the difference between keeping Hoop is 1 or 2 million, then he'll be gone. Unfortunately, we will miss out on getting a pick now.

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4 hours ago, mqg96 said:

When was the last time a team (or QB) won a Super Bowl with an elite receiver? I agree with all your posts so far. I’ve always been a Matt Ryan fan, but I’ve always questioned, why do you need elite, expensive receivers, tight ends, or running backs to be successful? You’re a 10+ year veteran in the league now. I’d rather put all the money into the O-line and defense, but that won’t happen with Julio and Hooper still on offense. Maybe if Matt Ryan never needed these elite playmakers on offense all these years, maybe our defense and O-line would have been better over the years?

This so tired.  Falcons should have already won one with an elite receiver. Having an elite receiver does not preclude a team from winning the Super Bowl.  The biggest problem is, before this team is good enough to compete for another SB, Julio probably won't be elite anymore.

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2 minutes ago, Boise Falcon Fan said:

That was in response to another post. The fact is, he's one of the best TE's in football. That doesn't mean you have to get crazy with his salary.  If he wants more than what the powers that be deem he is worth, let him go, and pick up a comp pick.

comp pick would likely be a 4th rounder.   Whoever trades for him will have to franchise/re-sign him to make it worth it - not under team control at low salary - thus the 3rd rounder as to how I came to compensation.   If he had more team control probably would be worth a 2nd rounder like Sanu who is under contract in 2020.

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30 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

well they likely won't be able to franchise tag him so they will have to compete against the market on a level playing field.    Hooper is a West Coast kid so he may want to get closer to home as well.   Not seeing any "home team" discounts.    This is Hoops best chance to get the absolute most money he can - career year, still young, etc. etc.

And yet Grady nor Deion ever hit UFA or were paid what people on TATF claimed my dude.

If it comes to market and letting him walk vs max contract fine.

Guess what? That’s a 3rd rounder... we ain’t overpaying nobody from another team this offseason(without a massive shake up beyond the sizable one we expect)

THEREFORE: We shouldn’t trade Austin for less than a high 2nd rounder!

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32 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Ertz and Kelce's deals will be two years old by the time Hooper gets to market.   Hoop and his agent may very well try to at least get the same or more monies given the increase in salary cap over last two years - much the way Dak Prescott wants to top Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson while no one believes he is as good as those guys - and Dak will probably get it!

Why did Grady settle for Cox money? It was an old market comp yet that’s all he got!

Hooper ain’t Kelce or Ertz.

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25 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Why did Grady settle for Cox money? It was an old market comp yet that’s all he got!

Hooper ain’t Kelce or Ertz.

Based on what? 

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9 minutes ago, vel said:

Based on what? 

His body of work/production doesn’t match Kelce or even Ertz.

I don’t see Hooper as a market setting TE. He is more like Grady trying to get paid like Cox, IMO.

If the price got too high? Fine. Let another team set market for him and take the comp in 2021.

We probably sign him for $8M-$9M per...

Edited by Ergo Proxy
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1 minute ago, Ergo Proxy said:

His body of work/production doesn’t match Kelce or even Ertz.

Through four years, he'd dead on with Ertz. This season he's been on the heels of Kelce's production all season. 

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1 minute ago, vel said:

Through four years, he'd dead on with Ertz. This season he's been on the heels of Kelce's production all season. 

Ertz was more productive:shrug:

He won’t ever be Kelce.

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Just now, vel said:

Through four years, he'd dead on with Ertz. This season he's been on the heels of Kelce's production all season. 

no he's not.

http://www.nfl.com/player/zachertz/2540158/careerstats

http://www.nfl.com/player/austinhooper/2555415/careerstats

Ertz's only year below 700yds was his rookie year.     Hoop still hasn't gone over 700yds although he will likely achieve in next 3-4 games

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3 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

no he's not.

http://www.nfl.com/player/zachertz/2540158/careerstats

http://www.nfl.com/player/austinhooper/2555415/careerstats

Ertz's only year below 700yds was his rookie year.     Hoop still hasn't gone over 700yds although he will likely achieve in next 3-4 games

I mean maybe Ertz has argument on sheer volume of targets.

They are close on yards per catch and dead on for TD totals through first 4 years of games.

Hooper being kept entering prime being Ertz isn’t a bad move. He isn’t Kelce but not many challenge that.

Hooper is a very good all around TE that hasn’t peaked yet.

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I understand trading Hoop is a controversial topic.   I  just see keeping him and paying him the large contract it will take - whether it's $8mm/yr or $10mm/yr or anything in the middle - is just more of putting our eggs in the being an elite passing team basket - when I'm not sure we will really be that.   It also further unbalances the team skewed to offense in the years going forward.

I believe you have to "stick the stake in the ground" and do something different with a new GM, new HC and a new vision.  Re-Signing Hoop and further crushing your cap on the top end feels like more of the same.

I really believe more draft picks, more defense, more lines of scrimmage and more physcial on both sides of the ball - IS - striking out on a new course.

Trading Hoop and picking up a 2nd rounder - and maybe trading others - it's bold.   Of course it is also odd if Dimitroff is trading players for picks for the future GM - would love to be a fly on that wall when he and Artie discuss.

Are the guys now pulling strings knowing they won't be there to finish the job?   Thomas Dimitroff has to have more lives than the NINE that the cats get.

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Falcons don't need to go into a rebuilding mode as their issues are mostly coaching.  Hooper made vast improvements since he was drafted.   Trading him for 3rd round pick would mean getting rid of his talents for a rotational player.  It weakens the team.  Adding 10 rookies next year is not going to make the team better.   

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What the Falcons need isn’t star power we need solid to good football players that will allow our good players to shine.Basically role players who do there **** jobs not super fly when is it my turn to make a play guys who turn up and do there jobs.

Think of it and I use this saying a lot in regards to team sport 7 or 8 guys that do there jobs and 3 or 4 that do a bit more.We don’t need that number the other way round.

Throw in good coaching and I’ve just described the New England Patriots.

I haven’t jumped in the trade Hooper debate to hard because that’ll be all dependent on how the new coach wants to roll.

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7 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

I mean maybe Ertz has argument on sheer volume of targets.

They are close on yards per catch and dead on for TD totals through first 4 years of games.

Hooper being kept entering prime being Ertz isn’t a bad move. He isn’t Kelce but not many challenge that.

Hooper is a very good all around TE that hasn’t peaked yet.

Hoop's on pace for 1200 yards and 9 Tds on an insane 84% catch%. That's one of the best pass catching season by a Tight End in NFL history. Of course there is the garbage time factor and the Julio factor but let's not act Hoop is the only tight end to benefit from either of those things. If we leave Hoop walk we have only one weapon on offense worth a **** and it's a 31 year old receiver who has already shown signs that his prime is behind him. Ridley has been a huge disappointment this season by any metric showing no improvement whatsoever and some regression with his inability to do anything against single coverage and running the wrong routes. Having an offense next year of Julio, Ridley.... and nothing else is not going to be pretty. Unless Ridley completely turns it around and looks like a #1 caliber receiver second half of the season, letting Hoop walk makes no sense whatsoever and just leaves us with another hole to fill during the draft. 

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7 minutes ago, cyofish said:

Falcons don't need to go into a rebuilding mode as their issues are mostly coaching.  Hooper made vast improvements since he was drafted.   Trading him for 3rd round pick would mean getting rid of his talents for a rotational player.  It weakens the team.  Adding 10 rookies next year is not going to make the team better.   

It also means that sometime in the next two season we'll have to waste a 3rd round or better on another pass catcher to make up for Hoop's missing production. 

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1 minute ago, Dr Long Shot said:

Hoop's on pace for 1200 yards and 9 Tds on an insane 84% catch%. That's one of the best pass catching season by a Tight End in NFL history. Of course there is the garbage time factor and the Julio factor but let's not act Hoop is the only tight end to benefit from either of those things. If we leave Hoop walk we have only one weapon on offense worth a **** and it's a 31 year old receiver who has already shown signs that his prime is behind him. Ridley has been a huge disappointment this season by any metric showing no improvement whatsoever and some regression with his inability to do anything against single coverage and running the wrong routes. Having an offense next year of Julio, Ridley.... and nothing else is not going to be pretty. Unless Ridley completely turns it around and looks like a #1 caliber receiver second half of the season, letting Hoop walk makes no sense whatsoever and just leaves us with another hole to fill during the draft. 

On pace for (through not even half the season) does not equal  - hey I did this.   Let's see if Hoop does this the rest of the season.   As to Ridley - the talent is there and he blew up his rookie season.    Matt Ryan is getting hit on 50% of his dropbacks - if Julio is the first read on most plays, Matt is already on his back half the time before he can look at Ridley.    I also believe this explains the increased usage of Austin Hooper.  He's not exactly running seam patterns and deep crosses.

As to our next #3 WR - let me introduce you to #83 - Russell Gage.   I am really psyched about him and believe he will impress over the rest of the season and develop into that true #3 WR we always hoped Justin Hardy would be.

Image result for russell gage

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1 minute ago, g-dawg said:

On pace for (through not even half the season) does not equal  - hey I did this.   Let's see if Hoop does this the rest of the season.   As to Ridley - the talent is there and he blew up his rookie season.    Matt Ryan is getting hit on 50% of his dropbacks - if Julio is the first read on most plays, Matt is already on his back half the time before he can look at Ridley.    I also believe this explains the increased usage of Austin Hooper.  He's not exactly running seam patterns and deep crosses.

As to our next #3 WR - let me introduce you to #83 - Russell Gage.   I am really psyched about him and believe he will impress over the rest of the season and develop into that true #3 WR we always hoped Justin Hardy would be.

Image result for russell gage

So making assumptions about Hooper maintaining a level of production he has consistently shown this year is ridiculous but assuming the guy who's entire NFL resume is showing up in training camp and one preseason game can come in as a starter and put up solid production is totally realistic. Gotcha. Let's see Gage be able to take a single NFL hit without gingerly walking to the sidelines, getting concussed, or breaking something before we assume he can be our third option. That seems more reasonable. 

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