g-dawg

Next Move - Trade Hooper for 3rd rounder

270 posts in this topic

Wow! Be careful what you ask for so we want total mediocrity for X amount of years. We don't we know if draft picks are gonna turn out just look around and see how many 1st thru 3rd draft picks that didn't turn out good. I think we have a few ourselves. AB is getting older, JJ and MR too. Will this city support 3-4 years of 4-12? 

i like a reset, maybe new coaches, GM and additions to the scouting department.llĺl

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38 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

https://overthecap.com/position/tight-end/

^^^^ look at all these regrettable Tight End contracts.   Wonder how many of these teams want a “do over”?

When was the last time a team (or QB) won a Super Bowl with an elite receiver? I agree with all your posts so far. I’ve always been a Matt Ryan fan, but I’ve always questioned, why do you need elite, expensive receivers, tight ends, or running backs to be successful? You’re a 10+ year veteran in the league now. I’d rather put all the money into the O-line and defense, but that won’t happen with Julio and Hooper still on offense. Maybe if Matt Ryan never needed these elite playmakers on offense all these years, maybe our defense and O-line would have been better over the years?

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I'm fine with trading off anyone with value, as long as Dimitroff and Quinn aren't doing the picking in next year's draft.

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30 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

https://overthecap.com/position/tight-end/

^^^^ look at all these regrettable Tight End contracts.   Wonder how many of these teams want a “do over”?

How many of those are 24 year olds who have been trending up since they entered the league? Darren Waller got paid on promise and hasn't even proven half of what Hooper has. Hooper is pretty much a spitting image of Zach Ertz. That's a top five TE. Do you walk from that? 

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28 minutes ago, Refried Beans said:

For all those that want to hold on to every player on our roster remind me again, what's our record? And how many Super Bowl trophies we won? If we get a 2nd round pick for Hooper trade him, clean house this includes Falcons front office and scouts and load up picks for the next Team President/GM and HC. 

And you suggest Blank do this every 1, 2, 3 years? I know you have no power to make this work but I'm interested in how you imagine it.

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4 minutes ago, Gold4425 said:

Wow! Be careful what you ask for so we want total mediocrity for X amount of years. We don't we know if draft picks are gonna turn out just look around and see how many 1st thru 3rd draft picks that didn't turn out good. I think we have a few ourselves. AB is getting older, JJ and MR too. Will this city support 3-4 years of 4-12? 

i like a reset, maybe new coaches, GM and additions to the scouting department.llĺl

This^^^

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17 minutes ago, vel said:

I get your point. But Belichick paid Hernandez and Gronk. When Welker was already near the top in the NFL for WRs. 

You have a valid argument. As much as I hate to say it, you do. The problem is replacement. Sanu was already replaced by Hooper as the third option. Ridley will be cheap for 2-3 more years. When it's time for his new contract, you can make it work. Him and Hooper will be 28, give you a consistent duo in the passing game for the next half decade plus while Matt and Julio are in their twilight years. 

I'd rather trade Mack in the offseason. Sorry, I'm just not for investing in past production. Hooper right now is pacing the league with Travis Kelce. There have been fewer TEs producing better than him all around this year. He's made strides every single year. I'm paying for that. Move Mack and Freeman before you trade Hooper. Throw Trufant in that. I want guys who are trending towards being productive going forward, not stagnated in their development or trending backwards. 

Devil's advocate.

And that production has translated to how many wins?

The Falcons were only competitive in what, 3 games?

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41 minutes ago, vel said:

I get your point. But Belichick paid Hernandez and Gronk. When Welker was already near the top in the NFL for WRs. 

You have a valid argument. As much as I hate to say it, you do. The problem is replacement. Sanu was already replaced by Hooper as the third option. Ridley will be cheap for 2-3 more years. When it's time for his new contract, you can make it work. Him and Hooper will be 28, give you a consistent duo in the passing game for the next half decade plus while Matt and Julio are in their twilight years. 

I'd rather trade Mack in the offseason. Sorry, I'm just not for investing in past production. Hooper right now is pacing the league with Travis Kelce. There have been fewer TEs producing better than him all around this year. He's made strides every single year. I'm paying for that. Move Mack and Freeman before you trade Hooper. Throw Trufant in that. I want guys who are trending towards being productive going forward, not stagnated in their development or trending backwards. 

Yeah this is where I am. If Im trying to cut cost, I wouldnt start with the accending player.

I would be looking at trading maxed out, high priced players whise best days are way behind them like Freeman, Trufant, Allen, Mack etc and letting guys like Campbell, Crawford and Bosher walk after the season.

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1 minute ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

Devil's advocate.

And that production has translated to how many wins?

The Falcons were only competitive in what, 3 games?

Falcons lost back to back games where they scored 30+ points because the defense laid massive eggs. Through all of the bs on offense, Hooper has at least been one of the reliable pieces. Can't even say that about Ridley. You can't win without talent. Trading Hooper for a pick doesn't guarantee we get a player to replace him close to Hooper. 

For me, Hooper isn't even close to the front of the line for guys to move on from. Sanu was #1. Freeman and Mack are next. 

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I dont WANT to trade Hoop, but if a team is throwing a 2nd at us for him, it's hard to ignore. 

Fact is we're gonna have to make some tough decisions this offseason. I'm for any suggestion that makes sense. The current team is 1-6. There are no sacred horses when you're staring at back to back losing season while paying 5-6 guys "top at their position" money.

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2 minutes ago, savannahfalcon912 said:

i wouldn't trade Hoop unless it was at least a 2nd rounder

Exactly. I'm trading a 24 year TE who has been ascending and getting less back than what I got for the WR he replaced in the pecking order? The NFL is all about the future. Hooper is more likely to be playing for another decade while Sanu may have 3-4 more years in him. 

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JBrake- Then maybe Matt Ryan can restructure his contract the way Brady does to make sure he keep his TE with which he has this great Chemistry. I just don't see Ryan doing this. If we get a 2nd round for Hooper we need to jump on this. 

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11 minutes ago, mqg96 said:

When was the last time a team (or QB) won a Super Bowl with an elite receiver? I agree with all your posts so far. I’ve always been a Matt Ryan fan, but I’ve always questioned, why do you need elite, expensive receivers, tight ends, or running backs to be successful? You’re a 10+ year veteran in the league now. I’d rather put all the money into the O-line and defense, but that won’t happen with Julio and Hooper still on offense. Maybe if Matt Ryan never needed these elite playmakers on offense all these years, maybe our defense and O-line would have been better over the years?

The Pat's won last year with Gronk

Eagles with Ertz and Alshon

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6 minutes ago, savannahfalcon912 said:

i wouldn't trade Hoop unless it was at least a 2nd rounder

I'm not doing it for anything less than a 1st.

He's a young proven player and the draft is a crapshoot. You don't know if you can replace him unlike Sanu who is already replaced.

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Just now, vel said:

Falcons lost back to back games where they scored 30+ points because the defense laid massive eggs. Through all of the bs on offense, Hooper has at least been one of the reliable pieces. Can't even say that about Ridley. You can't win without talent. Trading Hooper for a pick doesn't guarantee we get a player to replace him close to Hooper. 

For me, Hooper isn't even close to the front of the line for guys to move on from. Sanu was #1. Freeman and Mack are next. 

But you see that's just it.

You're not looking to replace Hooper.  You're looking to improve other parts of the team.

Let's go back to 2016.  Did the Falcons need a stud TE?  No.  Hooper was a rookie and the Falcons were using multiple TEs and were getting very good production out of a vet TE before he went on IR.

Look at FA.  There are plenty of good TEs that move around every year for a decent price.

I understand what people are saying about Hooper but at the end of the day I think he's good and expendable.

It's time for the Falcons to finally make a choice.  Be an offense happy finesse team that can't stop anybody or try to get serious about the pass rush?

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2 minutes ago, Statick said:

Trade Hooper?

Not happening.

 

Kind of like some of the things in this post from before the season?

 

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7 minutes ago, Ovie_Lover said:

The Pat's won last year with Gronk

Eagles with Ertz and Alshon

Those were not elite receivers for the Eagles. They’re not Julio, Antonio Brown, Odell Beckham, or Megatron level. That’s what I meant.

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5 minutes ago, mqg96 said:

Those were not elite receivers for the Eagles. They’re not Julio, Antonio Brown, Odell Beckham, or Megatron level. That’s what I meant.

If you go by Top of position logic then few elite players ever win a ring at any position.

What did the Cowboys elite OL get them?

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5 minutes ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

But you see that's just it.

You're not looking to replace Hooper.  You're looking to improve other parts of the team.

Let's go back to 2016.  Did the Falcons need a stud TE?  No.  Hooper was a rookie and the Falcons were using multiple TEs and were getting very good production out of a vet TE before he went on IR.

Look at FA.  There are plenty of good TEs that move around every year for a decent price.

I understand what people are saying about Hooper but at the end of the day I think he's good and expendable.

It's time for the Falcons to finally make a choice.  Be an offense happy finesse team that can't stop anybody or try to get serious about the pass rush?

Very true. But that was with a very deep WR corps of Julio, Sanu, Gabriel, Robinson with Coleman even providing a ton in that regard. That's not a good comparison unless you're suddenly bringing Kyle back. 

Right now, you trade Hooper and your weapons are Julio, Ridley and....nothing like 2016. I'm just not for moving a young, ascending player for a third when you just traded a maxed out WR for a 2nd. If they got a high second/low first for Hooper, then put me on board. That's my point. Good TEs don't hit the market. Not a single one changed teams last year. There hasn't been one of the caliber and age of Hooper change teams because you don't let those guys just go. 

Expendable? You trade him if you don't plan on re-signing him. But when you look around the roster, there are way more unproductive players or maxed out players you can move on from way before Hooper. Replacing him doesn't have to be a 1 for 1 TE replacement. They traded Sanu for a second. If that turns into a stud LG, that's a good replacement. If they trade Hooper for a 3rd and only get a Duke Riley from it, is that worth it? No. 

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Just now, Ovie_Lover said:

If you go by Top of position logic then few elite players ever win a ring at any position.

What did the Cowboys elite OL get them?

Elite offensive linemen and defensive linemen as a collective group (the trenches) tend to have a better shot at Super Bowl championships than elite skill position players that carry a huge load of the team. History has told us that multiple times.

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Yea nope, he is young and could be one of the best TE's in the NFL in the next few years, no matter the rebuild process we are going to need to keep a core of good young players and Hooper should be one of them.

A good young reliable TE target is a cornerstone to any rebuild concept.

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9 minutes ago, mqg96 said:

Elite offensive linemen and defensive linemen as a collective group (the trenches) tend to have a better shot at Super Bowl championships than elite skill position players that carry a huge load of the team. History has told us that multiple times.

I can agree with that. But to me you also need one really good safety.

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