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since68andcounting

Matthews and Donald

128 posts in this topic

47 minutes ago, since68andcounting said:

Its interesting how our "10 year franchise LT" is now looking like he's done in half that time. And the guy we passed on to get him is the best defensive player in the league and a one man wrecking crew yesterday.

I was told by very knowledgeable posters on this board that "Everyone knew Donald was gonna be special". That so? If everyone here knew, then how come the GM, scouts, and especially coaches who saw him in the Senior bowl and are PAID to know couldn't see it?

WHO made the decision that we HAD to go OL rather than pass on a once in a generational defensive lineman? Was it TD, or higher?

A once in 20 year defensive player or an average LT. Hmmmmmmmm.......let's see. I'll take the average LT for 200 Alex. ~ Falcons FO.

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35 minutes ago, Nino11 said:

He had a second round grade until the senior bowl practices 

And Smitty's coaching staff was picked to coach the south that year.. I remember them saying Donald was unblockable..they had first hand knowledge of him and also Taylor Lewan, but TD chose Matthews. They could have traded back a few spots and still had either player..

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Falcons scouting department and GMs need to learn to draft the best player available and screw this draft for need mentality. Especially in the first round. Maybe McKay, TD, Quinn and dummies from the scouting department need to bring a Sporting News or ESPN Mock Draft rankings to help them navigate thru the first round and quit picking these "project" players. Or drafting trendy players. Everyone knew Matthews was overrated and only ranked high because of his bloodline. We picked him. Such a waste. These picks give me McKay PTSDs. Always overthinking stuff trying to look like the smartest guy in the room, instead of drafting quality grade players. 

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24 minutes ago, dothan_birdman said:

Part of the line problems are a lack of cohesion with the guards. Even Lindstrom would/will have some challenges as a rookie. But with the Tackles having no true support inside, they will struggle. Look at where teams are attacking our line most effectively. I agree we need a center soon. Someone to groom even. And Wes isn’t that guy. 
 Couple all of that with Koetters confusion and you have the mess we call our offense. 
 

The gel theory, huh? We're in week 8, but we still rolling with the "gel theory", huh?

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11 minutes ago, joeyg2033 said:

The same way that everyone saw tape on Beasley and determined that this guy was a monster... a true difference maker. That's why we took him eighth... 

Goes to show you that what you see on college film is not always what you'll get in the pros... Some tape confirms what you saw on tape and thought all along in Donald. And the next tape of Beasley doesn't confirm what an absolute bust he would become. 

Fwiw I watched the tape on Beasley and saw a one trick pony speed rusher. Not even close to what I saw of Donald.

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5 minutes ago, since68andcounting said:

Wasn't LA playing without Donald and Fowler then? It was basically their 2nd unit. AND soft zone to protect deep.

Probably.  I noted garbage time.  But I also noted the pass plays were getting out a lot quicker, and not because Schaub had less pressure, but because they were designed to get the ball out.

If they're in the playbook, one wonders why we don't use them more under heavy pressure.  It seems to me the coaches are not maximizing the roster by scheming around deficiencies.

Keep in mind -- I'm on the "fire the lot of them" train at this point.  So I don't see Quinn/Koetter vs. TD as an either/or problem.

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7 minutes ago, VTCrunkler said:

I guess we were taking finding a diamond in the rough approach to d line? Until the following year that is.  Maybe Donald didn’t have the measurables we wanted in a DT?  If we had first hand knowledge of the guy and still passed him up then that’s a bad look.  Maybe we were going to nab him the second....

I always felt like the Falcons plan was to jump back into the first to grab a pass rusher.  I want to say I even read something about the Falcons wanting to get back into the first.

But they couldn't find any takers.

Dee Ford was probably a reach for the Chiefs at 23 and the Cowboys took Demarcus Lawrence 3 picks ahead of the Falcons in the 2nd.

I don't know what happened in the 3rd.  I think they had back up plans that they thought would be there that weren't and then they panicked and picked Southward.... who did nothing in the Senior Bowl.

There was even a poster on here that was a Penn State fan saying it was a bad pick right after the Falcons picked him.

It's things like these that make me think it's time for a new direction at GM.

One that prioritizes pass rush and the trenches instead of WRs, Corners and Safties..... like most other NFL teams.

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58 minutes ago, since68andcounting said:

Its interesting how our "10 year franchise LT" is now looking like he's done in half that time. And the guy we passed on to get him is the best defensive player in the league and a one man wrecking crew yesterday.

I was told by very knowledgeable posters on this board that "Everyone knew Donald was gonna be special". That so? If everyone here knew, then how come the GM, scouts, and especially coaches who saw him in the Senior bowl and are PAID to know couldn't see it?

WHO made the decision that we HAD to go OL rather than pass on a once in a generational defensive lineman? Was it TD, or higher?

You know why annoys me with this teams scouting and reaches us that we could have quality depth if we stop trading up for bums. Keep pucks or acquire more picks. We give away all our picks every draft and it’s annoying. Can’t believe we gave up a third pick for y’all when he would’ve been there. Plus if he wasn’t I wouldn’t even be mad to not have him smh

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Let's be real here, Matthews looked good at Texas A&M because?

1. He blocked for Johnny football who ran around the whole field?

2. He didn't have to hold his blocks for long,  cause Johnny football ran around the whole field?

3. He didn't have to block for a pocket passer, cause Johnny football ran around the whole field?

Or 

4. His last name was Matthews?

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5 minutes ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

I always felt like the Falcons plan was to jump back into the first to grab a pass rusher.  I want to say I even read something about the Falcons wanting to get back into the first.

But they couldn't find any takers.

Dee Ford was probably a reach for the Chiefs at 23 and the Cowboys took Demarcus Lawrence 3 picks ahead of the Falcons in the 2nd.

I don't know what happened in the 3rd.  I think they had back up plans that they thought would be there that weren't and then they panicked and picked Southward.... who did nothing in the Senior Bowl.

There was even a poster on here that was a Penn State fan saying it was a bad pick right after the Falcons picked him.

It's things like these that make me think it's time for a new direction at GM.

One that prioritizes pass rush and the trenches instead of WRs, Corners and Safties..... like most other NFL teams.

Yes I remember we wanted or at least I wanted De Lawrence but the dastardly cowboys took him. I think they must have known something to make that move. And yes a lot of us wanted Dee Ford

 

Hageman and Oliver have this in common : outstanding measurables with first round potential, that teams passed on, that we grabbed in the second- thinking we got a steal. 

Desmond Southworth. Completely forgettable. 

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Truth, Matthews didnt even fit into our offensive scheme (power ball) at the time. Why would we draft him to begin with? Cause of his last name and he blocked for a scrambling QB?

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30 minutes ago, Summerhill said:

It doesn't matter who is considered a "reach" on draft day. The only thing that matters is who is balling 2-3 years later. 

That said, Donald was widely considered to be a top 10-15 pick. While that is slightly lower than where the Falcons were picking, it's common for Hall of Fame players to be drafted between 10-15 so any player slotted there is absolutely in play. 

You’re looking at it through the lens of today, not at that point. It was already proven that the vast majority of people on these boards, during that time, shared the opinion that Donald at that point would be a reach. I liked Donald at our pick. Others didn’t agree. But I don’t care about “rankings”. 
 

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl-draft-hall-famers-come-003451925.html

According to this 2017 article.

From 1977:

Only 7 players drafted between 10-15 have made it into the HOF. 

26 players drafted between 1-6 have made it into the HOF. 

You're more likely to draft a HOF player with the first 6 picks than the 6 picks that are in the 10-15 range. 

Matthews was drafted 6th overall. 

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10 minutes ago, Flying Falcon said:

Truth, Matthews didnt even fit into our offensive scheme (power ball) at the time. Why would we draft him to begin with? Cause of his last name and he blocked for a scrambling QB?

Because TD finally copped up to the mistake of Sam Baker.

Not drafting him... just thinking they could live with him... then extending him. 

I can't tell you how many games I watched where I thought to myself "Baker's the weak link."   They have to scheme around him.

So they thought had to draft a LT.

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1 hour ago, JDaveG said:

Part of it is garbage time, but did anyone else notice when Schaub came in they started giving him quick looks so he could get the ball out, and he marched it down for a TD?

If only those plays were in the playbook when Ryan was in the game.........

thats what i was thinking matt over here getting killed cuz he doing 5 and 7 step drops then schaub comes in then automatic 3 step drops like forreal

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4 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

You’re looking at it through the lens of today, not at that point.

It's the GM's job to be able to see into the future. If all he had to do was pick who was highest ranked on draft day, Arthur Blank could make the pick with Mel Kiper's draft guide and he wouldn't have to pay a scouting department. 

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31 minutes ago, VTCrunkler said:

I guess we were taking finding a diamond in the rough approach to d line? Until the following year that is.  Maybe Donald didn’t have the measurables we wanted in a DT?  If we had first hand knowledge of the guy and still passed him up then that’s a bad look.  Maybe we were going to nab him the second....

I think measurables had a lot to do with it. Up until that point there were very few short DTs that played at that high of a level. Randle being the torchbearer. Not to mention you had Smith. Who came from Jacksonville with Marcus Stroud (6’6”, 310lb) and John Henderson (6’7”, 335lb). It would make sense that Smith would want to emulate those types of players instead of a 6’1”, 285lb DT. Years later we’re seeing the results on how Donald is dominating. 

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14 minutes ago, Summerhill said:

It's the GM's job to be able to see into the future. If all he had to do was pick who was highest ranked on draft day, Arthur Blank could make the pick with Mel Kiper's draft guide and he wouldn't have to pay a scouting department. 

Already stated as to why TD drafted an LT. And it was because of Ryan. Go back and reread it. Either way Matthews had all the boxes checked on being an elite player at that point. Not to mention we had your qualifiers for draft spot. A prime position to draft a hall of fame player. We whiffed and got a solid player instead. 
 

Correction: You didn’t reference the second post. 

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Not gonna lose sleep over not getting Donald who was taken 10 picks after us. 

Taking a guard over Brian Burns is gonna sting for a long time though. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

I think measurables had a lot to do with it. Up until that point there were very few short DTs that played at that high of a level. Randle being the torchbearer. Not to mention you had Smith. Who came from Jacksonville with Marcus Stroud (6’6”, 310lb) and John Henderson (6’7”, 335lb). It would make sense that Smith would want to emulate those types of players instead of a 6’1”, 285lb DT. Years later we’re seeing the results on how Donald is dominating. 

I remember those Stroud and Henderson days. They were certainly the standard bearers for huge DTs. It does make sense that he would emulate them. And in 2014 it may have been on the cusp or before folks started to think about a DDT being a pass rusher. 

Can you imagine the rhetoric around here if we drafted at 6’1”285lb DT?  And he ended up not being good? This place would have exploded. 

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1 hour ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

 

And Smith's staff had an up close and personal view of him the entire week where he was unblockable.  I remember that Senior Bowl.  The reports for the North team was Donald this and Donald that.

Matthews is a good tackle but Donald is the best at his position and he's been like that since day 1.   He might be the best player in the NFL.

The failure to identify and draft Donald was one of the reasons I was for and still am for showing TD the door.

If the Falcons had drafted Donald this thread would be about the team's inability to find a decent LT.

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Just now, VTCrunkler said:

I remember those Stroud and Henderson days. They were certainly the standard bearers for huge DTs. It does make sense that he would emulate them. And in 2014 it may have been on the cusp or before folks started to think about a DDT being a pass rusher. 

Can you imagine the rhetoric around here if we drafted at 6’1”285lb DT?  And he ended up not being good? This place would have exploded. 


Exactly. People like to look at the NFL through the lens of 2019 standards as opposed to 2014 standards. And they leave out nuance such as draft position, draft pick, team needs, scheme, coach, etc.

Not everything is black and white. Most people just start with their screeching of “wE coUld haVe HaD dOnaLd!!!”, without ever looking into the nuances of the game or where we were at schematically at that point. 
 

We almost did bro. And his name was Glenn Dorsey 6’1”, 297lbs. People were PI$$ED when we passed on him for some @sshole named Matt Ryan. LOL

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I was fine with the Falcons taking Matthews. They weren't the only team that passed on AD and for good reason. The man had short arms and was undersized. Nobody could have predicted he would turn into what he did. Remarkable player. In hindsight of course the Falcons take AD. Question: Would he be the same player in ATL? Right now all of ATL except Ryan looks like trash. 

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42 minutes ago, Flying Falcon said:

The gel theory, huh? We're in week 8, but we still rolling with the "gel theory", huh?

Week 8 and it has been a revolving door on the right side

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1 minute ago, Sidecar Falcon said:


Exactly. People like to look at the NFL through the lens of 2019 standards as opposed to 2014 standards. And they leave out nuance such as draft position, draft pick, team needs, scheme, coach, etc.

Not everything is black and white. Most people just start with their screeching of “wE coUld haVe HaD dOnaLd!!!”, without ever looking into the nuances of the game or where we were at schematically at that point. 
 

We almost did bro. And his name was Glenn Dorsey 6’1”, 297lbs. People were PI$$ED when we passed on him for some @sshole named Matt Ryan. LOL

Probably the biggest draft debates on these boards. I still remember it like it was yesterday. I am so glad we went Ryan. I personally witnessed him rip my college team and the Acc.  I knew what kind of leadership he brought. We dodged a bulletin by Dolphins passing him by. I was actually more concerned that if we didn’t get him that Carolina would have. Can you imagine that alternative universe?  

Dorsey lasted how long in the league?

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Can you imagine the line in 2014 with out an injured Mathews? 
 

Lamar Holmes/Toilolo, Blalock/Bear Pasco, James Stone/Konz, Ashmua and Gabe Carimi/ RS.

I don’t hate the move even in the hind sight. That OL would have ended Ryan’s career.

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