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since68andcounting

Matthews and Donald

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Its interesting how our "10 year franchise LT" is now looking like he's done in half that time. And the guy we passed on to get him is the best defensive player in the league and a one man wrecking crew yesterday.

I was told by very knowledgeable posters on this board that "Everyone knew Donald was gonna be special". That so? If everyone here knew, then how come the GM, scouts, and especially coaches who saw him in the Senior bowl and are PAID to know couldn't see it?

WHO made the decision that we HAD to go OL rather than pass on a once in a generational defensive lineman? Was it TD, or higher?

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Just now, Jesus said:

Eh.

He is a good T. The entire line is struggling with whatever Koetter's offense is asking. 

I tend to agree. The O-line has to be more than a collection of individuals. They need to perform as a unit... one entity with each piece working as a small part that when added the sum is greater than the parts.

I think it's sort of hard to judge the current cluster cluck, because they are not playing together as a cohesive unit. That goes beyond just individual talent.

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4 minutes ago, VTCrunkler said:

We had a choice. Invest in protecting the franchise qb or go with bpa. I don’t think Donald was considered a top ten prospect at that time. I watched Donald dominate in college but couldn’t predict how good a pro he has turned out to be. 

He had a second round grade until the senior bowl practices 

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2 minutes ago, VTCrunkler said:

We had a choice. Invest in protecting the franchise qb or go with bpa. I don’t think Donald was considered a top ten prospect at that time. I watched Donald dominate in college but couldn’t predict how good a pro he has turned out to be. 

I've never seen a tape on a college player that simply popped like Donald's. Before or since. Now, I haven't watched thousands of tapes like some guys. But that's my point. With my limited experience, if I could see it, why couldn't THEY?

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1 minute ago, TheUsualStuff said:

I tend to agree. The O-line has to be more than a collection of individuals. They need to perform as a unit... one entity with each piece working as a small part that when added the sum is greater than the parts.

I think it's sort of hard to judge the current cluster cluck, because they are not playing together as a cohesive unit. That goes beyond just individual talent.

Yeah, it's the whole line. But Jake is getting beat 1 on 1 repeatedly. And if he IS that anchor of the OL, he's supposed to be the type leader that whips others in shape and helps them play as a unit. I'm not seeing that. I'm just seeing a guy that kind of shows up and does his job at an average level. 

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Sigh...Donald would have been considered a “reach” at our draft slot. Not to mention that the team that did eventually draft him, passed on him with their first pick. And for what? Oh yeah! Greg Robinson an offensive lineman.
 

I’ve never been the biggest fan of Matthews. He’s solid but not elite. When we resigned him I felt we could have found at least an equal replacement for half the cost. 
 

That being said, at that time, Matthews was considered a can’t miss prospect. He had the lineage, play, and consistency. Point is that everyone is going to play the hindsight game. And when you play that, you always lose. I’m sure there are still Rams fans that lament over the fact that they could have had Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald on the same defense. 

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Part of it is garbage time, but did anyone else notice when Schaub came in they started giving him quick looks so he could get the ball out, and he marched it down for a TD?

If only those plays were in the playbook when Ryan was in the game.........

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2 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Sigh...Donald would have been considered a “reach” at our draft slot. Not to mention that the team that did eventually draft him, passed on him with their first pick. And for what? Oh yeah! Greg Robinson an offensive lineman.
 

I’ve never been the biggest fan of Matthews. He’s solid but not elite. When we resigned him I felt we could have found at least an equal replacement for half the cost. 
 

That being said, at that time, Matthews was considered a can’t miss prospect. He had the lineage, play, and consistency. Point is that everyone is going to play the hindsight game. And when you play that, you always lose. I’m sure there are still Rams fans that lament over the fact that they could have had Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald on the same defense. 

To me, though, this exemplifies Dimitroff's approach to team building, which I've never liked.  We "draft for need," to a fault.  We wait until something's a problem then we go get whoever it is we "need" in the draft.  And the problem is, drafts don't solve problems immediately.

I liked double-dipping on o-line this year, for example, but anyone who thought that was going to fix our o-line was dreaming.  And it's a move that had better work immediately (it hasn't), because if not it will probably only bear fruit after Quinn, and hopefully Dimitroff, have been gone for a couple of seasons.  Which means it's a move that should have been made in 2 bites over the last 5 years.

We still need a center.  That's not an accident.  It's by design.  We don't "need" a center next season, so why draft one?  Better, in Dimitroff's eyes, to wait until it's a pressing need, a player we can't do without, and then get him with a high draft pick, which ensures he won't be ready to truly contribute until the year after.  It turns 1 problem year into 2, when it need not be a problem if we grab the best player at a position of near-future need instead of constantly reaching to get the player we needed last season.

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11 minutes ago, Nino11 said:

He had a second round grade until the senior bowl practices 

 

17 minutes ago, Jesus said:

Eh.

He is a good T. The entire line is struggling with whatever Koetter's offense is asking. 

And Smith's staff had an up close and personal view of him the entire week where he was unblockable.  I remember that Senior Bowl.  The reports for the North team was Donald this and Donald that.

Matthews is a good tackle but Donald is the best at his position and he's been like that since day 1.   He might be the best player in the NFL.

The failure to identify and draft Donald was one of the reasons I was for and still am for showing TD the door.

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Part of the line problems are a lack of cohesion with the guards. Even Lindstrom would/will have some challenges as a rookie. But with the Tackles having no true support inside, they will struggle. Look at where teams are attacking our line most effectively. I agree we need a center soon. Someone to groom even. And Wes isn’t that guy. 
 Couple all of that with Koetters confusion and you have the mess we call our offense. 
 

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20 minutes ago, since68andcounting said:

I've never seen a tape on a college player that simply popped like Donald's. Before or since. Now, I haven't watched thousands of tapes like some guys. But that's my point. With my limited experience, if I could see it, why couldn't THEY?

Don’t sell yourself short. He passed your “eye” test. Not sure why they couldn’t or didn’t see that. I would like to know if he was even on our draft board. Something tells me he wasn’t. 

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I would advise the Falcons Mickey Mouse scouting department to look at University of Pittsburg for interior d-line prospects in this years draft, they have a new crop of studs coming out. Just saying. And if you want a replacement for VB pick Chase Young. But if we do what we normally do and win meaningless games so we can fall in the draft order get Cam Akers out of FSU, he will be the next stud RB in the NFL. Offensive Line you can never go wrong drafting o-linmen from Alabama or Wisconsin. Drafting not that hard don't see how we always screw it up. 

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Teams tend to favor certain archaic benchmarks for size and Donald is smaller than the prototypical DT size. That's also why Jarrett fell so far. I feel like they're starting to adjust and not knock certain players, especially if they pop on tape.

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1 minute ago, Refried Beans said:

I would advise the Falcons Mickey Mouse scouting department to look at University of Pittsburg for interior d-line prospects in this years draft, they have a new crop of studs coming out. Just saying. And if you want a replacement for VB pick Chase Young. But if we do what we normally do and win meaningless games so we can fall in the draft order get Cam Akers out of FSU, he will be the next stud RB in the NFL. Offensive Line you can never go wrong drafting o-linmen from Alabama or Wisconsin. Drafting not that hard don't see how we always screw it up. 

Pitt is a prospect factory. Just think of the talent: Donald, Fitzgerald, Regis....We did get a prospect from Pitt finally and he’s getting plenty of reps......

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I've always said that FALCONS fans get hyped every year at draft time and salivate over some of the fantastic athletes waiting to be drafted only to see (very disappointingly) the actual unknown players that TD and company would draft!!! :o:bang:

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14 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

To me, though, this exemplifies Dimitroff's approach to team building, which I've never liked.  We "draft for need," to a fault.  We wait until something's a problem then we go get whoever it is we "need" in the draft.  And the problem is, drafts don't solve problems immediately.

I liked double-dipping on o-line this year, for example, but anyone who thought that was going to fix our o-line was dreaming.  And it's a move that had better work immediately (it hasn't), because if not it will probably only bear fruit after Quinn, and hopefully Dimitroff, have been gone for a couple of seasons.  Which means it's a move that should have been made in 2 bites over the last 5 years.

We still need a center.  That's not an accident.  It's by design.  We don't "need" a center next season, so why draft one?  Better, in Dimitroff's eyes, to wait until it's a pressing need, a player we can't do without, and then get him with a high draft pick, which ensures he won't be ready to truly contribute until the year after.  It turns 1 problem year into 2, when it need not be a problem if we grab the best player at a position of near-future need instead of constantly reaching to get the player we needed last season.

Completely agree. However I understand wanting to protect the QBs blindside, regardless of me feeling like it’s not the most important position on the OL. 

It’s no big surprise that Ryan is the primary reason as to why this franchise has had any success these past few seasons. He is the life blood of this organization. TD knows that, and I feel like he went into “survival mode” and instead of drafting to win, he drafted to not lose (if that makes any sense). The last time I felt like TD drafted to win was with the Julio trade. 
 

After this season, I believe that the entire FO needs to be scrapped and we need a fresh, innovative start. I feel like we need to go completely outside the box with our hiring next season and leave no stone unturned. There needs to be an emphasis on innovation and execution. We need to stop trying to be a Patriots 2.0 or a Seahawks 2.0 and focus on being the Falcons version 1. And then constantly innovate every single season and not become stagnant. 
 

I’m done with a DC as HC. Give me a true innovative offensive guru as HC and call it a day. OCs are much harder to replace as is evidence with Shanahan. Part of me wants the HC to act as G.M. just so that there is zero disconnect with the players and vision, but that’s a tall order. We can’t afford to be this bad with this much talent. It’s sinful. 

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43 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

To me, though, this exemplifies Dimitroff's approach to team building, which I've never liked.  We "draft for need," to a fault.  We wait until something's a problem then we go get whoever it is we "need" in the draft.  And the problem is, drafts don't solve problems immediately.

Yeah when you draft exclusively for need you will almost certainly struggle with your depth - and we always have. I do like the investment in oline this past year but it was still a reactionary type of move.

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31 minutes ago, TheUsualStuff said:

I tend to agree. The O-line has to be more than a collection of individuals. They need to perform as a unit... one entity with each piece working as a small part that when added the sum is greater than the parts.

I think it's sort of hard to judge the current cluster cluck, because they are not playing together as a cohesive unit. That goes beyond just individual talent.

It doesn't take any understanding of a scheme to win or lose 1 on 1 and that's what he's been doing.

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26 minutes ago, since68andcounting said:

I've never seen a tape on a college player that simply popped like Donald's. Before or since. Now, I haven't watched thousands of tapes like some guys. But that's my point. With my limited experience, if I could see it, why couldn't THEY?

The same way that everyone saw tape on Beasley and determined that this guy was a monster... a true difference maker. That's why we took him eighth... 

Goes to show you that what you see on college film is not always what you'll get in the pros... Some tape confirms what you saw on tape and thought all along in Donald. And the next tape of Beasley doesn't confirm what an absolute bust he would become. 

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13 minutes ago, VTCrunkler said:

Don’t sell yourself short. He passed your “eye” test. Not sure why they couldn’t or didn’t see that. I would like to know if he was even on our draft board. Something tells me he wasn’t. 

Where do you think Sneed was getting his info about Donald?

Maybe the team and staff he previously worked for?  That's what really irritates me.  He was talking to the Falcons staff, (save the HC), who were probably raving about Donald.

He takes that info and drafts Donald in the 1st.

Coaching the Senior Bowl is a HUGE advantage for the coaching staffs that do it.  Several teams come out with great players.  The Falcons came out with Hageman and Desmond Southward... :bang:

It would be nice if Blank could get the coaching staff in place early enough so they could coach the Senior Bowl.

 

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22 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Sigh...Donald would have been considered a “reach” at our draft slot.

It doesn't matter who is considered a "reach" on draft day. The only thing that matters is who is balling 2-3 years later. 

That said, Donald was widely considered to be a top 10-15 pick. While that is slightly lower than where the Falcons were picking, it's common for Hall of Fame players to be drafted between 10-15 so any player slotted there is absolutely in play. 

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27 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Part of it is garbage time, but did anyone else notice when Schaub came in they started giving him quick looks so he could get the ball out, and he marched it down for a TD?

If only those plays were in the playbook when Ryan was in the game.........

Wasn't LA playing without Donald and Fowler then? It was basically their 2nd unit. AND soft zone to protect deep.

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1 minute ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

Where do you think Sneed was getting his info about Donald?

Maybe the team and staff he previously worked for?  That's what really irritates me.  He was talking to the Falcons staff, (save the HC), who were probably raving about Donald.

He takes that info and drafts Donald in the 1st.

Coaching the Senior Bowl is a HUGE advantage for the coaching staffs that do it.  Several teams come out with great players.  The Falcons came out with Hageman and Desmond Southward... :bang:

I guess we were taking finding a diamond in the rough approach to d line? Until the following year that is.  Maybe Donald didn’t have the measurables we wanted in a DT?  If we had first hand knowledge of the guy and still passed him up then that’s a bad look.  Maybe we were going to nab him the second....

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