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The Consolidated Matt Ryan Thread


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3 hours ago, kenn.junior said:

if we hire another defensive minded HC im gonna throw up

Who is the new hot coordinator? 
 

we could have had Adam Gase. He’s successful. The Jets loved him so much they lured him from the Dolphins. 
 

We had Dan Henning years ago. He was good. San Diego couldn’t believe how bad he was they had to see for themselves. 

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2 hours ago, falcons007 said:

And he is done..

Yet their offense clicked with Foles because Pederson was calling great games and the league hadn’t adjusted. Wentz was long gone and they just kept winning outside of the 1 game.

Of course, their OL was great too!

One common theme among teams with pocket QBs...at least, it would seem but could also be a function of differences in quality of OC on down through the offense...

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1 minute ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Yet their offense clicked with Foles because Pederson was calling great games and the league hasn’t adjusted. Wentz was long gone and they just kept winning outside of the 1 game.

Of course, their OL was great too!

One common theme among teams with pocket QBs...at least, it would seem but could also be a function of differences in quality of OC on down through the offense...

Great QB have great OC. Bill Walsh and Joe Montana. Payton And Brees. BB and Brady/Josh Mcdaniels. Manning had good OC. It’s crazy that KS and Ryan couldn’t pair up for longer. 

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I read the last three pages and let's get real. Some of you guys really want to code talk but just say Black QB/White QB. 

#1, the NFL has A LOT more white QB's enter the league than Black ones. A LOT! Most each year if not all most years do not turn into ATGs or legends. Most never get to Matt Ryan and Matt Hasslebeck's level. So please stop the ******** of saying well, white QB's are just you know, better. Stop using Brees/Manning/Brady as your code for white QB's when every year we add at least 60 and none of them ever get to that ******* level. 

As for Black QB's. Outside of Russell Wilson, we haven't had someone who could get to that ATG level at this stage of his career. Mahomes is young and the sky is the limit but as you saw with Andrew Luck, injuries matter in the NFL. A LOT! So when it comes to ATG, there just aren't that many. 

Young

Montana

Elway 

Favre which we drafted

Brady

Peyton

Brees

Rodgers 

Marino

Guys with a chance: Russell Wilson 

Book still out on: Wentz/Mahomes/Watson

Outside of that, there aren't many exceptional QB's. 

Just Good ones, very good ones, good ones who need to perfect situation, flash in the pan ones, decent ones, average ones like Fitzpatrick, below-average ones, backups, scrubs, etc. 

 

Most QB's regardless of race never get to the flash in the pan level much less the good one's level. The good one's level is loaded with QB's been to Super Bowls like Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Eli Manning, Vick, McNabb, and guys like that. Very good ones are loaded with guys who really can play but don't change the game like Phillip Rivers, Moon, Big Ben, Fouts, Jim Kelly and guys like that. Decent ones like Andy Dalton, Hasselbeck, and guys like that. The flash in the pans are like Flacco, Kaep, and guys like that. 

#2. We just need a franchise player at QB. To me, Ryan ain't it. He regressed and just puts up empty stats. He is the NFL's Antoine Walker to me. He's trash now. The only reason I feel his fanboys are defending him is due to race. I feel the same way on the Carolinahuddle with Cam. He's not it no more. Maybe it's the injuries but he just doesn't have the juice and his Football brain never was that great, to begin with. Ryan little talent that he had has eroded and it's time for him to bounce too. If that's Burrow, Tua, etc. Idgaf, draft them. Chase Young looks **** good but if you got a QB that can make plays, we gonna be ahead anyway so sacking the QB will be easier. None of these top-end draft DEs really have that type of impact anyway. 

 

All of them who were drafted 1-2 haven't looked like Donald or prime Watt regardless of how they looked in college. The Bosas look good but you need the QB. Ryan ain't it no more. 

Edited by Top Draft Pick
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Matt Ryan and Cam Newton fanboys are cut from the same cloth. They never stop believing when it's clear it's likely time to move on. They believe their QB is excellent and can lead you to contention. Both are like, it's just the OL, it's just the defense, it's just the coaching, it's just the injuries. It is always excuses from their fanbase and a bunch of garbage stats and twitter posts. Both teams need to move from their QB's. Both QB's are now at the point of their careers where they are that helpful vet a team needs who too good to draft one or keeps drafting busts and just need someone with a pulse like those teams who signed Bradford and Flacco in the past. Matt Ryan and Cam Newton and no longer franchise QB's, both are just overpaid and washed for how much of the cap they eat up. Both are guys you pay 15-20 on a one to a two-year deal and move on from them if the ships sink too much. 

 

I really believe it's race-based for both. Cam Newton fans believe because he is Black, he is not given the same chance that others like him are given. While Matt's fans love his character and image so much that they will blindly excuse his weaknesses as the fault of others to protect their guy. This normally doesn't happen to this degree elsewhere but the Michael Vick experience made football very racial in our fanbase. Too racial perhaps especially when you have a fanbase which is as diverse as this one. I do believe Cam is close to the outs with Carolina. For Matt, it's all about TD. TD goes, so does Matt soon. The new guy will draft his guy at QB and that's that. 

 

I hope we get a new guy, he drafts his QB, Ryan is named the starter due to his contract and if his *** doesn't get it done. Adios! I am pretty sure Ryan stans will be here blaming the new coach, wish for someone like Shanahan again to give them a taste to relive what's dead and gone. 

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2 hours ago, Top Draft Pick said:

I read the last three pages and let's get real. Some of you guys really want to code talk but just say Black QB/White QB. 

I cut out the rest of your post because it's very long and kind of a wall of text since you didn't separate everything out, but I don't necessarily disagree with you here. I don't think the Ryan defenders defend him because he's white, I think that's a stretch but I think some posters have a certain type of language they use that shows bias. I literally saw a guy in here describe Jameis Winston as a "mobile" QB which told me everything I needed to know about that guys opinion.

I don't like the historical argument for why "pocket" QBs are better because the league has changed so much since it's formation and a big part of why "pocket" QBs dominated for so long despite no shortage of athletes was because certain positions in the NFL *were* limited to white dudes at times.

The MLB and QB positions were  leadership roles that were considered "thinking" positions -- and as a result, a lot of black kids that could've potentially been great QBs might've never got the shot. And then on top of that, which kids do you think had the most access to the types of training and education you need to play QB at a high level? And who did coaches want to be the face of their team?

The league's rules and schemes have evolved, and so has the culture. We know we can't compare modern pocket passers to pre-rule change era QBs because of how different the game was, so why do we insist on holding younger "mobile" to the standards of all-time greats? 

@Ergo Proxy and read this, because I know you don't defend Ryan due to his race but his claim that people are biased towards black QBs isn't necessarily wrong.

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Generalizing people over the Internet is just dumb. Sure there are racists but that’s never been part of acceptable board discussions for good reasons; it’s too big of a can of worms.

Is that really necessary to go there? You’re attacking or boxing in a mass of people as if that box is only fully of biased racists?

How is that even healthy for the conversation?

If Vick became RW, he’d have been incredible. He didn’t. Ryan is the best shot at SB we got in the next 2-3 years at minimum: if they get the coaching and drafting done right.

Edited by Ergo Proxy
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11 hours ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

I hope that Ryan retires a Falcon but league trends are a real thing. I think there needs to be a distinction made between a running QB (Lamar Jackson) and a mobile QB (Russell Wilson). These two types of QBs are not the same.
 

There needs to be an element of “elusiveness” and “burst” a QB can display if the offensive line breaks down. These elements are becoming just as important as traditional QB traits. Especially with the absolute athletic defensive freaks currently (and incoming) in the NFL. 
 

Point is that for a good majority of people on these boards don’t find speed as enamoring we the ability to be dynamic and add an element to an offense that could help us win.

If I had to choose, I’d choose a smart QB over and physical freak QB every day of the week. However the NFL isn’t that black and white. Unless you have a mastermind HC/OC/offensive system or a generational pocket passing QB, you’re going to be at a disadvantage in today’s NFL. 
 

All that being said, I believe Ryan can succeed in the right system. It’s just that the systems that can be implemented are limited. Lack of diversity isn’t an indictment on skill.

I harp on this all the time. Wilson, Watson, Mahomes are all very mobile guys that are still capable of sitting in the pocket and going through their progressions. They're not "running" or "scrambling" QBs they just have the ability to extend plays. What makes them dangerous is their ability to throw, the athleticism is just something that makes them more dynamic.

I hate, HATE, when people describe any of those guys as "running QBs". Every single one of them can outpass any QB in the league on their best day. Lamar Jackson is probably the only running QB in the league rn.

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6 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Generalizing people over the Internet is just dumb. Sure there are racists but that’s never been part of acceptable board discussions for good reasons; it’s too big of a can of worms.

Is that really necessary to go there? You’re attacking or boxing in a mass of people as if that box is only fully of biased racists?

How is that even healthy for the conversation?

If Vick became RW, he’d have been incredible. He didn’t. Ryan is the best shot at SB we got in the next 2-3 years at minimum: if they get the coaching and drafting done right.

Idk who you're addressing in this because if it's me oh man you missed the point.

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1 hour ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

Idk who you're addressing in this because if it's me oh man you missed the point.

It’s been a long day. I don’t get why this turned into a some posters are talking code for white vs black?

Like, really?

Rodgers is mobile. Winston isn’t. Brady/Brees/Manning is the comp for Ryan and does anyone legit believe he couldn’t match the success of Brees in NO? He’d have at least a few rings in NE, but so would any number of QBs on the best team/franchise for 2 decades; although obviously he is a part of that Ryan isn’t much of a downgrade given the contrast.

So ya...I’m tired and the whole code race talk broke my brain. He could totally make his point without going there.

The game may well adapt to the new style of play but rules had to be developed to even let running QBs have a shot. The few that are true passers; regardless of race, still have to be careful.

We’ve seen Rodgers take a beating recently and rules changed as a result. Remember the collar bone injury and weight rule? So that also benefits pocket QBs, but ironically Matt gets some of the most overlooked calls on him all the time.

Most QBs that are dual threat aren’t the most durable bodies. Even Big Ben has taken a beating over the years. Look at Cam. Never consistently passed the ball even before his injuries. He always functioned off his mobility and run threat. It’s his game.

So, even with rule adjustments; race be a non-factor...you rely on running and don’t do it safely it will take its toll...just like taking a beating took its toll on Luck. 

Falcons have a blessing in Ryan’s durability. Mobility or no mobility.

Not many RW out there: best QB since 2015...

But maybe Watson will learn and not take as many hits. Not everyone gets away with buying time or holding onto the ball; trusting their mobility even trying to throw and even with the rules benefiting QBs more that do that now.

A good OC can use a pocket QB with marginal mobility that can run any system at a very high level as long as his play calling/gameplan or adjustments is on point. The advantage of mobile QBs is broken plays, backyard football and more stress on a Defense with read options. Still, it’s a fundamentals thing that can be defended by well coached units and strategists. A more reliable way to massive point outputs is explosive plays even off PA by the pass. There are many ways to stress a front 7 into respecting a run look that benefits pass plays.

The variable of buying time and relying on broken plays is a double edge sword. I’d rather have that guy be very selective and protect his body and get an OC that gets most out of their system for points.

Mahomes is another world. Andy Reid got a taste of Michael Vick and built on that experience; IMO.

Edited by Ergo Proxy
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1 hour ago, Ergo Proxy said:

A good OC can use a pocket QB with marginal mobility that can run any system at a very high level as long as his play calling/gameplan or adjustments is on point. The advantage of mobile QBs is broken plays, backyard football and more stress on a Defense with read options. Still, it’s a fundamentals thing that can be defended by well coached units and strategists. A more reliable way to massive point outputs is explosive plays even off PA by the pass. There are many ways to stress a front 7 into respecting a run look that benefits pass plays.

The variable of buying time and relying on broken plays is a double edge sword. I’d rather have that guy be very selective and protect his body and get an OC that gets most out of their system for points.

Mahomes is another world. Andy Reid got a taste of Michael Vick and built on that experience; IMO.

Those aren't mutually exclusive. Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, Watson, **** even Murray can all move *and* protect themselves. They're pass first QBs that are a threat to run. And this may be hard to believe, but THOSE types of QBs are dominating the league right now and the QBs coming out of college are starting to be more and more athletic.

Brady retires and who's the best in the league now? Sure, Ryan's top 10 but the other guys not named Stafford or Rivers are all mobile guys.

It's NOT that rare, it's getting less rare, you said it yourself it opens up the offense in certain ways a statue QB can't, BUT it CAN be effective. My point is that if we form a TEAM that is formidable enough to win a championship, I'd rather it be with a guy that can move rather than the same guy we've been trying to win with for 11 years.

EDIT: And another thing. If we're gonna have a pocket passer, I'd MUCH rather it be a Big Ben type (who you mentioned in your post). The guy can sling it deep and Julio would likely have several more TDs in that case. Ryan, out of all the current decent pocket QBs, has the weakest arm. Stafford, Ben, Rivers, Brady, I'd trust any one of those guys on a ball of 25+ yards more than Ryan. That's really what kills me. If you can ONLY pass you need to be able to make ALL the throws at a high level. Seeing a good deep ball from Matty is like catching a unicorn. 

Edited by ChickenBiscuit
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4 minutes ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

Those aren't mutually exclusive. Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, Watson, **** even Murray can all move *and* protect themselves. They're pass first QBs that are a threat to run. And this may be hard to believe, but THOSE types of QBs are dominating the league right now and the QBs coming out of college are starting to be more and more athletic.

Brady retires and who's the best in the league now? Sure, Ryan's top 10 but the other guys not named Stafford or Rivers are all mobile guys.

It's NOT that rare, it's getting less rare, you said it yourself it opens up the offense in certain ways a statue QB can't, BUT it CAN be effective. My point is that if we form a TEAM that is formidable enough to win a championship, I'd rather it be with a guy that can move rather than the same guy we've been trying to win with for 11 years.

QB isn’t a question on the Falcons. It’s the whole “forming a team” part that hasn’t existed.

oh and they should have won a SB with him already. Coaching is part of “forming a team” to me...

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5 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

QB isn’t a question on the Falcons. It’s the whole “forming a team” part that hasn’t existed.

We've had good teams we just don't have a good system, IMO. 2012 Ryan could've been in the Super Bowl but he forced a throw to Roddy in triple coverage instead of Tony G? Was that TD or Mike Smith's fault? 

The collapse was on Quinn, I wouldn't put an ounce of blame of Ryan.

To put it in perspective, we've still been better than the Lions, Browns, Cards, Jags, Jets, etc.. over the years and Ryan is a big part of that.

I'm not on the cut/trade Ryan crew. I think he should be the QB to lead the transition and pass the torch to the next QB at some point past 2021. It's almost insane how much energy you invest into selling other fans on Ryan. Like I like the guy, but you love him clearly.

Edited by ChickenBiscuit
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Ryan is a great QB, teams would kill to have him.

Does he have flaws? Yes, no one is perfect.

One of his most noticable flaws is his arm strength. 

Obviously he can can throw hence why he is an NFL qb but I don't see what the harm could be if he just gained a bit more muscle in the off season. 

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8 hours ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

I harp on this all the time. Wilson, Watson, Mahomes are all very mobile guys that are still capable of sitting in the pocket and going through their progressions. They're not "running" or "scrambling" QBs they just have the ability to extend plays. What makes them dangerous is their ability to throw, the athleticism is just something that makes them more dynamic.

I hate, HATE, when people describe any of those guys as "running QBs". Every single one of them can outpass any QB in the league on their best day. Lamar Jackson is probably the only running QB in the league rn.

^ This

The irritating part about all this is you’re labeled as someone who “Just wants a running QB” if you even hint that a mobile QB could be more advantageous. 

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

^ This

The irritating part about all this is you’re labeled as someone who “Just wants a running QB” if you even hint that a mobile QB could be more advantageous. 

 

 

 

I agree that a mobile QB has its benefits, but Ryan’s lack of mobility is not a reason to move in from him.

there are mobile QBs better than Ryan as well as ones not as good. The true scrambling QBs I will take a pass on (L Jackson, J Allen primarily, and what Cam was)

it is still mind numbing to me with all the problems on this team that some focus their efforts on pleading to replace Ryan. 

unfortunately The extreme posters are the loudest on here and it causes others to get lumped in to an “us vs them” feud. A lot of this is still fueled by the Vick years too.

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14 minutes ago, 1989Fan said:

I agree that a mobile QB has its benefits, but Ryan’s lack of mobility is not a reason to move in from him.

there are mobile QBs better than Ryan as well as ones not as good. The true scrambling QBs I will take a pass on (L Jackson, J Allen primarily, and what Cam was)

it is still mind numbing to me with all the problems on this team that some focus their efforts on pleading to replace Ryan. 

unfortunately The extreme posters are the loudest on here and it causes others to get lumped in to an “us vs them” feud. A lot of this is still fueled by the Vick years too.

No one is stating to move on from Ryan right now. What I initially stated is that a new HC could (not will) require a skill set that Ryan doesn’t have. And he may want to draft a QB to eventually replace Ryan. Same thing happened with Favre when Rodgers was drafted. Favre was 35 which is the same age Ryan is now. 

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31 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

No one is stating to move on from Ryan right now. What I initially stated is that a new HC could (not will) require a skill set that Ryan doesn’t have. And he may want to draft a QB to eventually replace Ryan. Same thing happened with Favre when Rodgers was drafted. Favre was 35 which is the same age Ryan is now. 

Favre was also a gunslinger and had taken far more brutal shots than Ryan; although Brett played through it all he did rely on the game Rodgers molded his game off of.

^His athleticism. Ryan has never had that to base his game around so his falloff won’t be of that pattern and his injury history doesn’t suggest he will break down as a pocket QB. This is why Atlanta invested into the OL: Ryan and going RBBC.

Ryan will be 35 next year. He has at least 3 or 4 highly productive seasons in him. If he shows no signs of breakdown then, keep churning the roster for a SB window. I would not invest high draft capital in QB either of the next 2 seasons given the weaknesses on the roster. Get a QB to study behind him later rounds now if you must or higher around 2022 draft. It’s not like Matt is going anywhere anytime soon.

What we need is proper systems/schemes that allow the team to be lethal in run game and pass game; while building the Defense for once.

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9 hours ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Good teams keep elite QBs into their late 30s if they don’t show signs of breakdown. If a team can be rebuilt around Brees for several playoff runs why not Ryan?

Eh, not so fast my friend.  Of the top 4 QB’s of All Time, only a Brady wasn’t traded.    Manning for Luck, Montana for Young,  Favre for Rodgers.

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I think some of y'all are mistaking Mobile for Scrambling. We need a MOBILE QB... one that throws first, but when things break down, can make plays with his legs, I.E. buying time outside the pocket and throwing when a receiver gets open as DBs can only cover for so long or can take off and get a first down. We DO NOT need a qb who looks to scramble and run first. 

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19 hours ago, Skott Lee said:

Who is the new hot coordinator? 
 

we could have had Adam Gase. He’s successful. The Jets loved him so much they lured him from the Dolphins. 
 

We had Dan Henning years ago. He was good. San Diego couldn’t believe how bad he was they had to see for themselves. 

i dont care who it is as long as we dont hire another Defensive HC that cannot fix this defense as promise atleast with a offensive minded if the defense sucks we have an excuse

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