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After the Boom: How to build a modern NFL defense (it doesn't start at corner or on the edge)


vel
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4 hours ago, vel said:

My biggest issue with him has always been the lack of plays on the ball. Forced fumbles are cool, but they are only turnovers if the defense recovers. That's a risky gamble compared to interceptions. He's a big hitter, but if his game is to hide him in space, do you keep him long term? So tough because he's only 24. 

All boils down to how he recovers this offseason. I think it’s a much more calculated risk if in advance you know Neal is a player and can address it later.

Health is never a guarantee. We saw Lindstrom go down who never had injury trouble in college, afaik.

I think, since you already know what you have in Neal you can gamble on his health some but need better insurance at least for the 1 year option.

That was the hang up with Vic this year and going to the new front in base...there wasn’t an alternative option!

Fix CB moving forward; try to trade Tru, Get Neal healthy or cut, and invest as much in an overhaul on D this offseason as you can.

One offseason has likely addressed the core of the OL for the next 5 years or so; depending on C and Matt Gono/Brown as Carp was more of a stop gap.

If we go from 32nd to mid-tier in an offseason on D, it’ll be enough as we are still built to win with our offense.

Get leads. Unleash a better D. Win.

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Someone like Isaiah Simmons fills that rangy LB/S hybrid role perfectly. Getting him would be a massive upgrade over Ishmael and Campbell combined. We have to find another impact player on the DL too, especially at getting after the QB. Grady can’t be the only guy getting in the backfield. We have guys who can two gap though in Davison and Senat (hate that he’s not getting reps).

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7 hours ago, Vandy said:

I hear you, and I’ve always been a Rico advocate, he plugs in well if the rest of secondary are doing their job. But he gets exposed when they don’t, and he’s gotten exposed a lot this year as well. He may have a brain, but he’s not making the plays we need from that position. 
 

To me, it depends how season plays out. If defense continues to be historically bad, I let every vet go except Jarrett/Jones and maybe Neal. Blow it all up and find a defensive coordinator who can actually teach fundamentals.

In Atlanta it would be easier to find a Bigfoot riding a unicorn.

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I've been looking at the rage of the "tite" front this whole time thinking it's been a base 3-4. Never really noticed teams using a bunch of speed hybrid guys.

It's really clicked why we aren't worth a poop now. The problem isn't really scheme related at all, but more its personnel.

I mean DQ didn't do himself any favors bring back Vic for what he really needed though, but I kinda see why he gambled. Wilcox makes even more sense despite his unfortunate injury. Neal just hurts even more.

Just some suggestions, but would it make more sense to drop Ish down to Will, move Campbell over to joker, take Vic out, slide Kazee back to FS, Allen to SS, & Oliver at Nickel? Tru(Miller?) & Sheffield on the outside in man? 

DQ really needs to turn things around and save his job. I want to see him make the tite front work with us and not somewhere else.

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Looks like we tried this exact approach. We drafted Neal and he turned out better than anyone expected. He was amazing even if he couldn’t match chancellor. 

Look at our defense now compared to healthy Neal. Neal wasn’t good this year coming off injury. He was still finding his way back. 

Seems like we had the exact right mindset, but lost our Kam-lite and never got him back. 

How good did this D look before Neal got hurt the first time? 

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13 hours ago, falcon22 said:

Speaking of the defense, we hear a lot about the lack of sacks in the last three games and the absurd low number for the year, but no one is talking much about the lack of turnovers the defense is generating. After the Philly game, we have gone into the deep end of horrendous. They almost look like a completely different team from that game, what in the world happened? Did they tasted being physical and decided it takes too much of a toll?

Feel free too look up the stats but we haven't been good at generating turnovers throughout all of Quinns tenure apart from Neal forcing fumbles.

The only reason we are + in the turnover ratio is because our offense is generally quite good at protecting the ball.

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14 hours ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

And there's the problem.

He has final say over the roster and 5 years to build it.  And Vic.... they could have let him go and used that money to upgrade the defense.

Maybe drafting a WR when they really didn't need one wasn't the right move but spilt milk and all that.

As it stands Neal is most likely a lost cause and there will be a new staff in place next season.

You can't blame a guy for trying.... but they can still lose their job because of it.

I love Ridley and while I agree defense would have been nice in 2018 1st round...there isn't a stand out player that got taken between our Ridley and Oliver picks that fills a need. A guard like Will hernandez sure as **** would have been nice though. Would have given us more freedom to go defense this year.

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2 hours ago, Romfal said:

I love Ridley and while I agree defense would have been nice in 2018 1st round...there isn't a stand out player that got taken between our Ridley and Oliver picks that fills a need. A guard like Will hernandez sure as **** would have been nice though. Would have given us more freedom to go defense this year.

Darius Leonard would have been the best hindsight pick.

And Da'Shawn Hand instead of Senat.

But neither of those were obvious.

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6 hours ago, Romfal said:

I love Ridley and while I agree defense would have been nice in 2018 1st round...there isn't a stand out player that got taken between our Ridley and Oliver picks that fills a need. A guard like Will hernandez sure as **** would have been nice though. Would have given us more freedom to go defense this year.

I think the hindsight pick is Braden Smith. He's a very good player who fills a need and would have saved the Kaleb McGary pick and trade up for other players. 

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Question for everyone saying how much more important SS is than FS. New England has had an excellent defense for a while now and is absolutely ridiculous this season. For a while they've been playing a castoff in Patrick Chung at SS and a legit star at FS in Devin McCourty. How do you explain that? Who is more important? 

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15 hours ago, Ergo Proxy said:

All boils down to how he recovers this offseason. I think it’s a much more calculated risk if in advance you know Neal is a player and can address it later.

Health is never a guarantee. We saw Lindstrom go down who never had injury trouble in college, afaik.

I think, since you already know what you have in Neal you can gamble on his health some but need better insurance at least for the 1 year option.

That was the hang up with Vic this year and going to the new front in base...there wasn’t an alternative option!

Fix CB moving forward; try to trade Tru, Get Neal healthy or cut, and invest as much in an overhaul on D this offseason as you can.

One offseason has likely addressed the core of the OL for the next 5 years or so; depending on C and Matt Gono/Brown as Carp was more of a stop gap.

If we go from 32nd to mid-tier in an offseason on D, it’ll be enough as we are still built to win with our offense.

Get leads. Unleash a better D. Win.

The bold is what some of us were saying this year. People thought this was a top five unit in the making. I just wanted them to truly sniff the mid teens for once. Luckily, like you said, they invested in the OL so that shouldn't need more more to finalize. 

We'll see man. I'm just ready for change. 

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2 hours ago, Summerhill said:

Question for everyone saying how much more important SS is than FS. New England has had an excellent defense for a while now and is absolutely ridiculous this season. For a while they've been playing a castoff in Patrick Chung at SS and a legit star at FS in Devin McCourty. How do you explain that? Who is more important? 

Totally different scheme. Patriots don’t live with 8 in the box.

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2 hours ago, Summerhill said:

Question for everyone saying how much more important SS is than FS. New England has had an excellent defense for a while now and is absolutely ridiculous this season. For a while they've been playing a castoff in Patrick Chung at SS and a legit star at FS in Devin McCourty. How do you explain that? Who is more important? 

in our defense for sure the FS. I like Rico but he may be better suited for a box role

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23 hours ago, Vandy said:

I never understood our early FA signing of Brown/Carpenter and the extension of Beasley, and the drafting of Even two more OL early in draft which made everything look even more confusing This offseason....and I said as much during the draft...   but then DQ/TD brought in Davison, Bailey, and clayborn, which made me think well, there is a plan after all. 
 

we were all fooled bro. They had no clue, throwing mud against a wall to see if anything sticks. We all vastly overrated what DQ brings to the table. 

This. I said the same thing - it made no sense with our FA signings, then drafting of OL, then signing Beasley.... Quinn fooled us all 

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On 10/17/2019 at 1:25 PM, Spts1 said:

I got a lot of negatively for post ing that the Falcons should have tried to go defensive line in the draft.  Even did some draft scenarios...

Dude who you tellin. We banged that table for months. Defense was always the issue. I call it that gazoo effect. Rosy glasses come out and people stop thinking.

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On ‎10‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 0:25 PM, vel said:

Do I think DQ and TD are the right men for the job? I don't know. But would the next HC/GM truly see where the NFL is headed and plan appropriately for it? 

Such a good read I had to peruse twice. A lot to unpack here. But Id like to start with the above...

For Quinn to put his head on the block for D coordinator and the total destruction that has followed is just  a bad move professionally .No owner or GM has the power to make or even request Quinn to do so. This is a career killer in my book. I assume he knows one simple Defense that everybody in the NFL can exploit. Slap in the face, kick in butt just embarrassing.

Has Troff came out in FULL support of Quinn? And... we hear trade winds of players? Somebody is working and Quinn is dangling, not Troff.

 

 

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