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Should the Falcons fire Dan Quinn? Bill Barnwell ESPN

126 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, Ergo Proxy said:

He's been better in the 3-4/5-2 at setting the edge but he was replaced just last year and put on a pitch count for failing in Base 4-3...

Also:

 

Debo, Sheffield and Kazee, man.  Just out there like Lewis and Clark, exploring uninhabited lands.

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43 minutes ago, Falcanuck said:

His biggest knock for sure

And the reason he should be moved, if you are a GM and can't build trenches your teams are doomed

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1 minute ago, MAD597 said:

And the reason he should be moved, if you are a GM and can't build trenches your teams are doomed

Peter Konz was highly rated, Jake, as was Vic. He found Grady. Idk I wouldn’t say he’s good at building the trenches, but he certainly isn’t incapable and McGary and Lindstrom look like future Bowlers. 

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A lot of it is very questionable effort from several players all at once. I don't know how many times I've seen this defense just spot drop, COMPLETELY ignore any threat as they worry about getting to their landmarks first then playing football second. You can tell what they are coaching. DQ is trying to simplify it but the players are just turning into robots. It's quite fascinating to see in real time. 

For instance, simple plays like a third down conversion right after the two minute warning in the first half. It's 3rd & 8. Kazee is lined up inside of Larry Fitz, preventing any immediate quick throw to him. Yet at the snap, he literally turns and heads for the flats at the numbers, not even looking at Larry. He rushes to get to his landmark, just to cover grass, then try and break on Larry. By then, it's too late. He's covering Oliver's zone underneath, when there was no threat there, just to pass the immediate threat that ended up getting the first down easily. Play football. 

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11 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Debo, Sheffield and Kazee, man.  Just out there like Lewis and Clark, exploring uninhabited lands.

Definitely not comfortable in zone...no wonder we went with man and started getting some stops. :doh:

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12 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Debo, Sheffield and Kazee, man.  Just out there like Lewis and Clark, exploring uninhabited lands.

This one is on Ish. Sheffield is in perfect position to pick up the backside crosser. Debo forces them deeper, so any pass is high and to the safeties. But Ish carries a man that isn't his and gets caught where he shouldn't be. His responsibility is the same as Kazee's. If the play was reversed, it's perfectly defended. 

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6 minutes ago, vel said:

A lot of it is very questionable effort from several players all at once. I don't know how many times I've seen this defense just spot drop, COMPLETELY ignore any threat as they worry about getting to their landmarks first then playing football second. You can tell what they are coaching. DQ is trying to simplify it but the players are just turning into robots. It's quite fascinating to see in real time. 

For instance, simple plays like a third down conversion right after the two minute warning in the first half. It's 3rd & 8. Kazee is lined up inside of Larry Fitz, preventing any immediate quick throw to him. Yet at the snap, he literally turns and heads for the flats at the numbers, not even looking at Larry. He rushes to get to his landmark, just to cover grass, then try and break on Larry. By then, it's too late. He's covering Oliver's zone underneath, when there was no threat there, just to pass the immediate threat that ended up getting the first down easily. Play football. 

Yes. it is fascinating  especially considering all the levels the sport is played at and here the top 1% cant do it right .  I would almost bet they tried pattern matching and they just didnt get it so they switched and now they are bots. 

Edited by SPITFIRE
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6 minutes ago, vel said:

This one is on Ish. Sheffield is in perfect position to pick up the backside crosser. Debo forces them deeper, so any pass is high and to the safeties. But Ish carries a man that isn't his and gets caught where he shouldn't be. His responsibility is the same as Kazee's. If the play was reversed, it's perfectly defended. 

Correct, but if Ish comes down does it let Campbell then play the RB outlet?

 

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6 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Correct, but if Ish comes down does it let Campbell then play the RB outlet?

 

You'll notice the entire team playing zone Except 59. 59 turns and runs man to man with the crosser. It's not even the first time this happened. Oliver did it last week, where he played man and the entire D played Zone. 1 player can break a defense.

I can only imagine Ish thinking WTF are you doing back here and since youre here, where am I supposed to be?

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35 minutes ago, Falcanuck said:

Peter Konz was highly rated, Jake, as was Vic. He found Grady. Idk I wouldn’t say he’s good at building the trenches, but he certainly isn’t incapable and McGary and Lindstrom look like future Bowlers. 

11 years, how many years have we had a good OL or DL? Maybe 2 good years of an OL and 1 good year of a DL in the last 11? It is a defect in TD's scouting and player evaluation skills.

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7 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Correct, but if Ish comes down does it let Campbell then play the RB outlet?

 

Campbell was actually correct. Because there was a WR to his side, the corner is going to carry him vertically. That means Campbell has to look for any deep crosser behind him and carry because he's the hook curl defender to the opposite side. Sheffield effectively does the same since he didn't have a WR to his side. The crossers were picked up correctly, with Debo providing leverage support underneath for them to pick them up. Where Ish gets in trouble is letting the vertical release of the crosser on his side take him out of his responsibility and he finds himself deep when he's the flat defender. Like Kazee. He should have never been that deep but he was doing somebody else's job and paid for it. That's why nobody was there. 

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2 minutes ago, vel said:

Campbell was actually correct. Because there was a WR to his side, the corner is going to carry him vertically. That means Campbell has to look for any deep crosser behind him and carry because he's the hook curl defender to the opposite side. Sheffield effectively does the same since he didn't have a WR to his side. The crossers were picked up correctly, with Debo providing leverage support underneath for them to pick them up. Where Ish gets in trouble is letting the vertical release of the crosser on his side take him out of his responsibility and he finds himself deep when he's the flat defender. Like Kazee. He should have never been that deep but he was doing somebody else's job and paid for it. That's why nobody was there. 

Ah, makes perfect sense. LBs cover the underneath stuff in the middle and Ish/Kazee handle the flats.

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8 minutes ago, runshoot said:

You'll notice the entire team playing zone Except 59. 59 turns and runs man to man with the crosser. It's not even the first time this happened. Oliver did it last week, where he played man and the entire D played Zone. 1 player can break a defense.

I can only imagine Ish thinking WTF are you doing back here and since youre here, where am I supposed to be?

Nah, Campbell is playing it correctly. Ish messed up from the get go. He was supposed to come over and play the flat in a zone like Kazee on the opposite side.

Ish was playing as if he were the FS.

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2 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Ah, makes perfect sense. LBs cover the underneath stuff in the middle and Ish/Kazee handle the flats.

Yep, but where they get in trouble is too many players are playing zone like it's a static coverage. It's not. It's a living breathing animal with rules that adjust the responsibilities. But then when they actually try to function like a live coverage, they bust it by not even following their initial responsibility. It's maddening and I fully understand why DQ is so confused at what to do. He's running as basic of coverages as he can without exposing his defense and they still can't get those right. So what do you do? 

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2 hours ago, JDaveG said:

Simple.  Because you don't play games on paper.  On paper this team is talented as all get out.  On the field, they play like a bunch of also-rans.

The product on the field is the responsibility of the coaching staff

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5 minutes ago, vel said:

Yep, but where they get in trouble is too many players are playing zone like it's a static coverage. It's not. It's a living breathing animal with rules that adjust the responsibilities. But then when they actually try to function like a live coverage, they bust it by not even following their initial responsibility. It's maddening and I fully understand why DQ is so confused at what to do. He's running as basic of coverages as he can without exposing his defense and they still can't get those right. So what do you do? 

Cover-0 10 times a game and see what sticks, 50-0 at halftime who cares?! :lol:

:sadfan:

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2 minutes ago, shockerfalcon said:

The product on the field is the responsibility of the coaching staff

It's everyone's responsibility including the players out there.

Players get cut...coaches get fired...GM's get replaced, too.

The key is identifying the cause of the infection. It may just be..."multiple" :ninja:

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1 hour ago, vel said:

A lot of it is very questionable effort from several players all at once. I don't know how many times I've seen this defense just spot drop, COMPLETELY ignore any threat as they worry about getting to their landmarks first then playing football second. You can tell what they are coaching. DQ is trying to simplify it but the players are just turning into robots. It's quite fascinating to see in real time. 

For instance, simple plays like a third down conversion right after the two minute warning in the first half. It's 3rd & 8. Kazee is lined up inside of Larry Fitz, preventing any immediate quick throw to him. Yet at the snap, he literally turns and heads for the flats at the numbers, not even looking at Larry. He rushes to get to his landmark, just to cover grass, then try and break on Larry. By then, it's too late. He's covering Oliver's zone underneath, when there was no threat there, just to pass the immediate threat that ended up getting the first down easily. Play football. 

It's so frustrating seeing guys just reacting to things and not anticipating what's going to happen. It's like DQ and/or the players think their speed and athleticism is good enough to make plays. Nah...the whole point of zone is keeping things in front of you but ALSO reading, reacting, and most importantly, anticipating. They play like they just discovered the game of football last week.

You can have all the speed and athleticism in the world but if you don't have football smarts, instincts, the "it" factor, commitment to your craft, etc...the 4.3 speed and 40" vert means nothing. 

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10 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Cover-0 10 times a game and see what sticks, 50-0 at halftime who cares?! :lol:

:sadfan:

Man I applauded Schwartz for that in week two. He knew the Eagles didn't match up with the Falcons offense and went down swinging. Got some turnovers out of it and gave his offense a chance. You'll never get fired playing aggressive. 

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8 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

It's everyone's responsibility including the players out there.

Players get cut...coaches get fired...GM's get replaced, too.

The key is identifying the cause of the infection. It may just be..."multiple" :ninja:

I disagree it like being the captain of a ship or president of the United States. Sure there can be multiple causes for failure but ultimately the buck has to stop somewhere. For the product on the field the buck stops with the head coach. For the talent on the field the buck stops with the GM. There is nothing wrong with the talent on the field but that talent is not producing. I could list dozen of things by dozens of people but ultimately the head coach bears the responsibility and the blame. Finally TD is not the kind of GM that just drafts players and tells his coach to work with what he’s got. He always has collaborated with the head coach to build the roster. This has been said multiple times by blank, TD, and DQ. IMO it’s why he survived the Smitty firing and why he most likely will survive the Quinn firing. No one can can’t realistically argue that TD hasn’t put together a talented roster. The fact that the talent hasn’t performed recently especially in light of the fact that many who are underperforming where key contributors during the SB run can’t be blamed on TD. There’s a reason no one but falcon fans are talking about TD getting fired. 

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4 minutes ago, vel said:

Man I applauded Schwartz for that in week two. He knew the Eagles didn't match up with the Falcons offense and went down swinging. Got some turnovers out of it and gave his offense a chance. You'll never get fired playing aggressive. 

Especially when passive is destroying you...

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2 hours ago, Lowndesfalc said:

 

That is how bad this defense is. A solid offense that can score is not enough to lift this team from being among the worst teams in the league.

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3 hours ago, FinalScore2.0 said:

Like I asked in another thread, what exactly do people expect to change by firing Quinn right now?

2003:

Dan Reeves held a meeting with Arthur Blank and asked him, "Are you going to fire-me at the end of this season?"

Reeves has stated the after Blank replied "Yes", he quit immediately.

Wade Phillips became interim head-coach.

You do not know if any head-coach just wants to wait to be fired...

 

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