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So those 3 wins at the end of last year? Great momentum huh?


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2 minutes ago, Geneaut said:

Nothing we say in here win or lose is going to change that. The Falcons are going to do what they do. You are going to think what you think, other people are going to think what they think, and in the end nothing is going to change.

Couldn't that logic be used for every topic on this forum?

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A lesson to some of you, sometimes you have to lose a battle to in the war. Those 3 wins at the end of last year obviously did not carry over any momentum to this season, did not inspire our coaches o

Yup..,,this team would be 5-1 instead of 1-5 if we had tanked (purposely lost) those 3 games.    lesson learned. 

No it wouldn’t. Purposefully losing breeds A losing culture. See Cleveland browns for last 20 years.  

6 minutes ago, JeffAtl said:

Please cite the years that Clevelend has tanked.  I think you are confusing tanking with "being bad".

1

Why do you think they made the Julio trade? One year, everyone spent the entire post-draft season outraged that Cleveland had tanked, only to trade down multiple times and spend their first round draft pick on a Center. The player they hated was...Alex Mack. At the time, everyone was livid because the team who stayed at #5 selected can't miss superstar Mark Sanchez.

 

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38 minutes ago, jidady said:

1) No, you don't.

2) In this thread, you absolutely are. You're shamelessly ignoring the fact that Atlanta's top pick broke his foot in the first game in a failed attempt to make a point that's nonsensical and cowardly.

Take your tanker mentality and go quit somewhere else. Real Falcons fans want to win.

isn't the point of the sport to win a Superbowl? I could care less if we win a random game that helps nobody. Give me the best path to get that trophy

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16 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

Exactly tanking for draft position says a bit more about your franchise than alot care to worry about.To me if that were the case why not just fire DQ at the end of last season.

Character that’s what those 2-3 wins at the end of last year meant.It may not be showing now but much the same happens 2009 the team couldn’t mathematically make the playoffs but MS and co had the team fight till the end.

I guess alot round here are Johnny come latelys and don’t remember that season.

Are we in for change across the board maybe so but you want your team to fight situation regardless.They may look listless now but you at least have to play for pride.I get the sense round here even if the Falcons did that a losing season a fair percentage on here regardless would throw stones.

2009 we were fighting for back to back winning seasons for the first time in Falcons history. We had something to play for. 2018 Oliver could have used the PT.

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4 minutes ago, jidady said:

Why do you think they made the Julio trade? 

 

Because moving down in the draft to acquire more draft picks is a very sound strategy.  The Patriots do it almost every year.

At the time, AJ Greene was also considered the better prospect so its not like everyone knew that Julio would become a HOFer.

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Just now, Romfal said:

isn't the point of the sport to win a Superbowl? I could care less if we win a random game that helps nobody. Give me the best path to get that trophy

As someone else said, that sort of reduction means that 31 out of 32 teams fail every year. And there's no one true path to that trophy. After all, Belicheck has notoriously struggled in the draft over the past 10 years, a point I haven't even brought up yet while refuting the original poster's nonsense. So, high draft picks aren't the best path. It's whatever he's doing.

Teams with perennial high draft picks seem more likely to stay down, which is the aspect of this discussion that seems more interesting imo. Look at Tampa Bay and Miami as examples. Save for a five-season run, Cincy's been terrible for the body of 25 years.

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3 minutes ago, Geneaut said:

I happen to enjoy the weekly games for themselves. SB is just an added bonus.

right, but you play the regular season to make the playoffs. If you're out of the playoffs, what gives you the best chance to make the playoffs next year? Winning a pointless week 17 game against your division rival or losing and getting 5 spots higher draft position?

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2 minutes ago, JeffAtl said:

Because moving down in the draft to acquire more draft picks is a very sound strategy.  The Patriots do it almost every year.

At the time, AJ Greene was also considered the better prospect so its not like everyone knew that Julio would become a HOFer.

I've spent 20 years here arguing in favor of trading down, so I agree on that point. As for Greene vs. Julio, people debated that point going back to when they were high school sophomores, but nobody ever doubted that either of them would be an otherworldly NFL player.  Atlanta actually offered a bit more in 2011 to skip up to #2, but Denver sussed out that we wanted Von Miller.

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3 minutes ago, Geneaut said:

Maybe. This particular subject seems to just really rile people up a lot more than others. 

I agree, but most of that is because anyone who wants to think of the longterm is labeled a "loser" or "tanker".

I appreciate your view because you stated that you enjoy each game on its on.  That is a fresh take and I respect it.  I have a different viewing experience, but that's ok.

 

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2 minutes ago, Romfal said:

right, but you play the regular season to make the playoffs. If you're out of the playoffs, what gives you the best chance to make the playoffs next year? Winning a pointless week 17 game against your division rival or losing and getting 5 spots higher draft position?

If logic dictated my fandom I would have quit watching these bums in 1981 :)

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6 minutes ago, jidady said:

As someone else said, that sort of reduction means that 31 out of 32 teams fail every year. And there's no one true path to that trophy. After all, Belicheck has notoriously struggled in the draft over the past 10 years, a point I haven't even brought up yet while refuting the original poster's nonsense. So, high draft picks aren't the best path. It's whatever he's doing.

Teams with perennial high draft picks seem more likely to stay down, which is the aspect of this discussion that seems more interesting imo. Look at Tampa Bay and Miami as examples. Save for a five-season run, Cincy's been terrible for the body of 25 years.

Bill has no loyalty to any player. He will use you until you get too expensive or stop performing and then will find the next guy to take your spot. Its pretty straight forward and yet no one else does it because they are scared of fan back lash or going with your gut backfiring.

Arthur Blank is too worried about everyone getting paid to see the bigger picture and that will forever be an issue here. 

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Just now, JeffAtl said:

I agree, but most of that is because anyone who wants to think of the longterm is labeled a "loser" or "tanker".

I appreciate your view because you stated that you enjoy each game on its on.  That is a fresh take and I respect it.  I have a different viewing experience, but that's ok.

 

I try to not label folks that way because the engineer in me gets the idea perfectly. I just can't subscribe to that point of view. It feels ... dirty LOL.

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2 minutes ago, Romfal said:

Winning a pointless week 17 game against your division rival or losing and getting 5 spots higher draft position?

 

The answer is that it depends. The team has to draft the right person, and that person has to stay healthy enough to make an impact. Otherwise, they're counting more against the cap.

We're unfortunately at the time of year where everyone forgets how many top 10 picks are busts. The top three of 2015 went Winston/Mariota/Dante Fowler. The next three were Cooper, Scherff, and Williams. The three after that were Kevin White, Vic, and Ereck Flowers. Picking in the top would have been great if teams had picked the right guy, which most of us at the time agreed was Leonard Williams. Somehow, he went #6.

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9 minutes ago, jidady said:

As someone else said, that sort of reduction means that 31 out of 32 teams fail every year. And there's no one true path to that trophy. After all, Belicheck has notoriously struggled in the draft over the past 10 years, a point I haven't even brought up yet while refuting the original poster's nonsense. So, high draft picks aren't the best path. It's whatever he's doing.

Teams with perennial high draft picks seem more likely to stay down, which is the aspect of this discussion that seems more interesting imo. Look at Tampa Bay and Miami as examples. Save for a five-season run, Cincy's been terrible for the body of 25 years.

its not a guarantee that tanking will be successful but winning pointless games isn't the solution either. All you can do is put yourself in the best position to get the best results in the future. 

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10 minutes ago, Romfal said:

Bill has no loyalty to any player. He will use you until you get too expensive or stop performing and then will find the next guy to take your spot. Its pretty straight forward and yet no one else does it because they are scared of fan back lash or going with your gut backfiring.

Arthur Blank is too worried about everyone getting paid to see the bigger picture and that will forever be an issue here. 

Everything you say is 100% right here, but I'd still rather root for Arthur Blank than Belicheck in any aspect of life. I'm extremely proud that he's our owner. He's one of the few good people who own sports teams. 

But I can't blame Blank for any of this. I read every bit of Falcons football analysis I can find all year long. Even the most cynical people worried about our defense never projected this. I think the lowest win total I saw for us was 7-9. Why would our owner think any differently?

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5 hours ago, falcons007 said:

Hows Ed Oliver and Wilkins doing? Asking for a tanker friend. 

Heck, even an injured Lindstrom has done as much as those guys.

Hint:

Your first rounders might not give you momentum year 1 either. Hence, the 1year stop gap signings.

Brown and Carp have proved important unfortunately due to Lindstrom’s injury.

On Defense, we should have done more with $13M for Vic as a “stop gap” than relying on Vic with that.

Cheap, 1-2 year rental rushers on “prove it” deals out there doing work.

Meanwhile, Some beautiful day dreamers in here thinking you gonna get a team to tank when not everyone is sitting pretty on a losing team like Vic!

@FalconFanSince1970 said it best, tank on tankers!

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11 minutes ago, Romfal said:

its not a guarantee that tanking will be successful but winning pointless games isn't the solution either. All you can do is put yourself in the best position to get the best results in the future. 

I fully agree with your last sentence. It's the idea that any win is pointless where you lose me. As someone else said, it's the crux of this debate and something where people will never line up. I've watched too many teams try to stack the deck for the draft only to make terrible selections to believe that tanking is a good play. But that wasn't the purpose of this thread. It exists as a meanness.

The point that nobody can argue is the most appropriate one for this thread. A draft pick is absolutely useless no matter who it is or where in the draft it happens when that player isn't playing.

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19 minutes ago, Embrace the suck said:

2009 we were fighting for back to back winning seasons for the first time in Falcons history. We had something to play for. 2018 Oliver could have used the PT.

Same situation though right if we tanked we get better draft position.

Thats what fans are talking here draft position because they think if you draft higher you have a better chance to win.Which isn’t always the case.

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13 minutes ago, jidady said:

1) Winning is winning. It's a tautology.

2) We could have used Chris Lindstrom. Nobody helps when they're hurt.

Except we lost a top 5 pick and the talked about momentum from last season didn't happen. This is just an imagined outcome not grounded in any reality.

Quinnen Williams isnt hurt. In fact he made a tackle that turned the tide in the jets game and helped them win. He will be a perennial all pro that could have helped the next regime.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/Article/Quinnen-Williams-New-York-Jets-highlights-fourth-down-stop-Week-Six-Alabama-Crimson-Tide-136942970/Amp/

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