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Taking a page from Smitty's book


The Don™
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5 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Not early on, but once team got successful of course he did. All coaches do that, including Quinn. 
 

One of the many mis- truths told in here was how different Quinn was over smith when it came to playing vets > rookies.

Recency bias is strong. Folks came up with that conclusion comparing DQ after 2016 to MS not playing Antonne Smith. 

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34 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

Yep. 2009 was ok and injuries derailed the draft. 2010-2012 were bad. I am seeing similar pattern from 2015-2019.. 

2008 draft nearly every rookie played meaningful minutes. As did 7th round pick Vance walker from 2009 draft. 
 

UDFA Grimes, Schraeder, and worrilow all got their big breaks under smith. 
 

It’s a TAFT false narrative that smith never played unproven players over vets. Just as it’s false that DQ was somehow better at seeing it.

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1 minute ago, falcons007 said:

The back ups were no better. And MS gave rookies  and UDFA plenty of reps early on. That’s the cycle of NFL BB mastered. DQ like Smitty gave the young guys chance because he had no choice in 2015-2016. As they got experienced, the rookies saw less and less snaps. It’s usually pretty much all coaches.

Nah, some of the back-ups were clearly better. Antoine Smith and Devonta Freeman under Steven Jackson for example. I agree the talent wasn’t there depth wise, but he would stick with guys way too long. Kroy Beirmann, Dunta Robinson, Chris Owens, Ray Edwards, Jamaal Anderson, Thomas Decoud, William Moore, Mike Peterson, Stephen Nicholas, Joplo Bartu, Paul Worrilow, Adam Jennings, Garrett Reynolds. All these guys got way more starting time than they deserved, and Smitty was so late in identifying when to make a change. 

Even if the depth behind them sucks, you have to make some kind of effort to shake up the status quo. If he had moved on from some of those guys sooner, more roster turnover could’ve been done. It just built up over time. 

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Just now, A-TowN.- said:

Nah, some of the back-ups were clearly better. Antoine Smith and Devonta Freeman under Steven Jackson for example. I agree the talent wasn’t there depth wise, but he would stick with guys way too long. Kroy Beirmann, Dunta Robinson, Chris Owens, Ray Edwards, Jamaal Anderson, Thomas Decoud, William Moore, Mike Peterson, Stephen Nicholas, Joplo Bartu, Paul Worrilow, Adam Jennings, Garrett Reynolds. All these guys got way more starting time than they deserved, and Smitty was so late in identifying when to make a change. 

Even if the depth behind them sucks, you have to make some kind of effort to shake up the status quo. If he had moved on from some of those guys sooner, more roster turnover could’ve been done. It just built up over time. 

Curious, who should have played > Biermann? TAFT fav busts Massaquoi or Sidbury?

Worrilow/Bartu are examples of smith playing unproven players, so don’t know what your point is there? 

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4 minutes ago, A-TowN.- said:

Nah, some of the back-ups were clearly better. Antoine Smith and Devonta Freeman under Steven Jackson for example. I agree the talent wasn’t there depth wise, but he would stick with guys way too long. Kroy Beirmann, Dunta Robinson, Chris Owens, Ray Edwards, Jamaal Anderson, Thomas Decoud, William Moore, Mike Peterson, Stephen Nicholas, Joplo Bartu, Paul Worrilow, Adam Jennings, Garrett Reynolds. All these guys got way more starting time than they deserved, and Smitty was so late in identifying when to make a change. 

Even if the depth behind them sucks, you have to make some kind of effort to shake up the status quo. If he had moved on from some of those guys sooner, more roster turnover could’ve been done. It just built up over time. 

Antonne smith had fumbling problem. He fumbled in preseason, practice and wasn’t durable. Freeman wasn’t starter under DQ too, Free man got chance because Coleman got hurt. 
He had to stick with that crap because he had no one especially in 2013-2014. The list you have shows inability of TD to replace players.

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13 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Not early on, but once team got successful of course he did. All coaches do that, including Quinn. 
 

One of the many mis- truths told in here was how different Quinn was over smith when it came to playing rookies, that Quinn gave everyone an equal chance. That was utter BS.

There was clear weakness at certain positions, and he waited way too long to give other guys a chance. Chris Owens and Steven Jackson are prime examples. How many seasons were these players starters before Smitty decided to give something new a shot? 

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1 minute ago, A-TowN.- said:

There was clear weakness at certain positions, and he waited way too long to give other guys a chance. Chris Owens and Steven Jackson are prime examples. How many seasons were these players starters before Smitty decided to give something new a shot? 

Lol He replaced Chris Owens with a UDFA Robert McClain an unproven camp body who bounced on practice squads. MS gave him start over Owens.

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7 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Curious, who should have played > Biermann? TAFT fav busts Massaquoi or Sidbury?

Worrilow/Bartu are examples of smith playing unproven players, so don’t know what your point is there? 

It’s funny the D went south when Bierman got hurt in 2013 against the Rams. 
 

TD was super excited with pick  of Sidbury. If you listened to TD, Spencer Adkins in two years would have been best LB ever. 
I think some of MS couldn’t develop talent comes from TD hyping his picks.

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5 minutes ago, A-TowN.- said:

There was clear weakness at certain positions, and he waited way too long to give other guys a chance. Chris Owens and Steven Jackson are prime examples. How many seasons were these players starters before Smitty decided to give something new a shot? 

You mean like right now?

Agree on freeman > Jackson. But much like Quinn is now, Smith was coaching to save his job. It’s the nature of the beast.
 

Shouldn’t Ollison/Gage/Miller/Grace/Cominsky be getting more minutes than they have?

How has  Quinn been any different?

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2 minutes ago, Vandy said:

You mean like right now?

Agree on freeman > Jackson. But much like Quinn is now, Smith was coaching to save his job. It’s the nature of the beast.
 

Shouldn’t Ollison/Gage/Miller/Grace/Cominsky be getting more minutes than they have?

How has  Quinn been any different?

Duke Riley and Jordan Richards: Hold my beer. 

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Just now, falcons007 said:

 Antonne smith has fumbling problem. He fumbled in preseason, practice and wasn’t durable. Freeman wasn’t starter under DQ too, Free man got chance because Coleman got hurt. 
He had to stick with that crap because he had no one especially in 2013-2014. The list you have shows inability of TD to replace players.

Man they are both to blame. Smitty kept Chris Houston and Steven Jackson as starters for two years before he decided to give others a chance. They both should’ve seen the talent they had sucked way before they decided to make changes. You’re really giving Smitty a pass for this?

 

2 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Curious, who should have played > Biermann? TAFT fav busts Massaquoi or Sidbury?

Worrilow/Bartu are examples of smith playing unproven players, so don’t know what your point is there? 

Chris Owens was a 2 year starter. They were all busts under TD & Smitty, but you’re not going to know someone is a bust unless you give them a shot. Took nearly 3 years for them to decide Jamaal Anderson wasn’t it, and then proceeded to replace him with mediocre garbage in Biermann, Massaquoi, and Edwards. If they had moved on sooner, they might’ve known they had a depth issue. They stuck with mediocre players for way too long. That falls on both the coach and GM for not replacing **** players sooner. 

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8 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

Lol He replaced Chris Owens with a UDFA Robert McClain an unproven camp body who bounced on practice squads. MS gave him start over Owens.

After years of Owens sucking ***, yeah he finally replaced him with another guy who sucked ***, but slightly less. Then they realized, hey maybe we should actually invest in the position and drafted Alford & Trufant. How is this an argument against what I’m saying? 

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5 minutes ago, A-TowN.- said:

Man they are both to blame. Smitty kept Chris Houston and Steven Jackson as starters for two years before he decided to give others a chance. They both should’ve seen the talent they had sucked way before they decided to make changes. You’re really giving Smitty a pass for this?

 

Chris Owens was a 2 year starter. They were all busts under TD & Smitty, but you’re not going to know someone is a bust unless you give them a shot. Took nearly 3 years for them to decide Jamaal Anderson wasn’t it, and then proceeded to replace him with mediocre garbage in Biermann, Massaquoi, and Edwards. If they had moved on sooner, they might’ve known they had a depth issue. They stuck with mediocre players for way too long. That falls on both the coach and GM for not replacing **** players sooner. 

Re: Jamal anderson

How many years has it taken DQ on Vic Beasley?

Re: Chris Owens

see Trufant, who’s been getting lit up like a Xmas tree for longer.

Give it up man. I can play this all day long.

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5 minutes ago, falcons007 said:

Duke Riley and Jordan Richards: Hold my beer. 

 

2 minutes ago, Vandy said:

I just spit mine out, 007. Thanks a lot!

Everyone blamed Manuel for that, but I knew that was coming down from Quinn. 

Vic Beasley/Trufant have been just as bad, yet we keep trotting them out there too. 

I agree with both of this. My whole argument is that DQ and Smitty both let players play longer than they deserve. 

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1 minute ago, Vandy said:

Re: Jamal anderson

How many years has it taken DQ on Vic Beasley?

Give it up man. I can play this all day long.

What are you even arguing here? I’m not saying DQ doesn’t either. I’m saying they both are waiting too **** long to move on from guys. I’m not defending DQ at all, what are you even on about?

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Just now, A-TowN.- said:

What are you even arguing here? I’m not saying DQ doesn’t either. I’m saying they both are waiting too **** long to move on from guys. I’m not defending DQ at all, what are you even on about?

Read my earlier posts. I’m saying all coaches do it when their job is in jeopardy. 

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1 hour ago, A-TowN.- said:

We know what we have in players like Beasley, Ishmael, Trufant, Schweitzer, and Campbell. Yet DQ continues to give them snaps. Carpenter and Brown have also been disaster signings for us at the Guard positions. I hope I never see any of those guys on the team after this year.

@Vandydo you even read? We literally said the same thing, but you somehow think you pulled one over on me. Haha!

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1 minute ago, A-TowN.- said:

Man they are both to blame. Smitty kept Chris Houston and Steven Jackson as starters for two years before he decided to give others a chance. They both should’ve seen the talent they had sucked way before they decided to make changes. You’re really giving Smitty a pass for this?

 

Chris Owens was a 2 year starter. They were all busts under TD & Smitty, but you’re not going to know someone is a bust unless you give them a shot. Took nearly 3 years for them to decide Jamaal Anderson wasn’t it, and then proceeded to replace him with mediocre garbage in Biermann, Massaquoi, and Edwards. If they had moved on sooner, they might’ve known they had a depth issue. They stuck with mediocre players for way too long. That falls on both the coach and GM for not replacing **** players sooner. 

Smitty inherited the worst Cb situation in 2008. Chris Houston was a top 50 pick and wasn't gonna be abandoned in 2008, he was the best option. MS went and got veteran Domnique Foxworth in 2008, that was a great move. They also drafted Chevice Jackson in the early 3rd round but was bust.

Falcons did sign Brian Williams in 2009 but he got hurt early on. That was one thing I liked about Smitty and TD early on, they made moves as needed even late in the preseason. By 2010, he had Robinson and Grimes as starters. 

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9 minutes ago, A-TowN.- said:

After years of Owens sucking ***, yeah he finally replaced him with another guy who sucked ***, but slightly less. Then they realized, hey maybe we should actually invest in the position and drafted Alford & Trufant. How is this an argument against what I’m saying? 

Chris Owens became whipping boy after 2010 playoffs, he was pretty good in the regular season. The 2010 regular season defense has been the best defense for Falcons in 20 years allowing only 280+ points for the whole season.  

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31 minutes ago, A-TowN.- said:

I don’t get how this is an argument against my take, or makes it okay that Smitty and DQ are doing it?

Sorry if Coming across as arguing against your take.

My take is when vet/established coach’s seat is hot, he’s gonna revert to with what he’s most familiar with. It’s human nature. 
 

only a new coach with a few years grace for a turnaround (see Smith in 2008, Quinn in 2015, Shanahan When first hired in SF) will be given opportunity to play unproven rookies  over high priced vets.

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11 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Re: Jamal anderson

How many years has it taken DQ on Vic Beasley?

Re: Chris Owens

see Trufant, who’s been getting lit up like a Xmas tree for longer.

Give it up man. I can play this all day long.

MS would be crucified if he gave up on Jamal Anderson in a year for not developing players. Credit to him, by 2009 Kroy got more snaps on the DL. 

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