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*TMo*

Why do players quit on a coach?

29 posts in this topic

19 minutes ago, *TMo* said:

Exactly what does that mean? Why does it happen? Has it happened to the Atlanta Falcons?

I know its happened before way in the past. And for any football player to quit on their coach, their team, their fans.... its shameful! They might as well stay home and not collect anymore checks!

That's why I say, if it happened once, it will happen again doesn't matter who the coach is. That mentality needs to be removed from the building or it will continue to ruin the organization. That's a contagious cancer in itself and everyone knows who they are...its very obvious. I'd rather see a young energetic rookie fighting, learning through the mistakes, playing their heart out than a "vet" who plays when they want to...

It happens in every sport.

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Culture. When you see how much work you put in and other players put in half that and play more, it breeds contempt. It no longer becomes a merit based system and becomes a coach's buddy system. Coaches get attached to players instead of production. Vic getting $13MM to be a subpar player is a prime example. 

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I think Quinn gives the team nothing. Like some of his in game moves are like WHAT? Throwing the red flag when we all know it will not get overturned. Seeing his star players getting mugged and turning his back and not chewing the ref a new one. Time management for the other team seams to take priority over your own. Playing zone when you needed to be in man. Needing to rush the QB when we drop our pass rushers into coverage of a grassy knoll, playing scared instead of trusting the players to play. Going for it on 4th down when so many times everyone can see the O-line can't push even a inch, but we are going for it anyway. Not taking control of the team in the biggest game ever and saying Freeman what the H311 you call that a block. Or Shanahan Thanks for putting us in the position but we have a patchwork O-line that is beat up and tired we are going to run it here and take time off the clock. Kick it for 3 then you can do as you please. 

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1 hour ago, *TMo* said:

Exactly what does that mean? Why does it happen? Has it happened to the Atlanta Falcons?

I would say the only time a group of players would quit on a coach is if the coach puts the losses on them when they feel like they've been doing their job and the players feel like the coaches are not setting them  up for success.  

Another scenario that I think is more fitting for our team is they are becoming listless do to losses accumulating and the team and coaches are not able to fix it. In this scenario they've not given up but rather are frustrated with putting it all out there just to have X-player do something stupid at the worst time. A few wins and some tangible improvements can change this one quickly back to the positive. 

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1 hour ago, vel said:

Culture. When you see how much work you put in and other players put in half that and play more, it breeds contempt. It no longer becomes a merit based system and becomes a coach's buddy system. Coaches get attached to players instead of production. Vic getting $13MM to be a subpar player is a prime example. 

This.  When did the skid start in 2013?  When Gonzalez was re-signed and didn't have to do anything at training camp.  Now Julio Jones doesn't go to OTAs, Vic gets his option picked up and doesn't have to produce but keeps starting for some reason, Freeman got all that money and isn't producing, Trufant is one of the highest paid defensive players and is playing like utter crap.  

Why would any of the other guys play?  The example being set is some dudes get big money and don't have to practice, and others get big money and don't have to play well.  Good grief, we pull Julio out for a play or two every time he gets a catch.  No accountability.  No expectations.  Some animals are more equal than others.

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2 hours ago, vel said:

Culture. When you see how much work you put in and other players put in half that and play more, it breeds contempt. It no longer becomes a merit based system and becomes a coach's buddy system. Coaches get attached to players instead of production. Vic getting $13MM to be a subpar player is a prime example. 

This and messages get old after a while. It is why you see a lot of retreads in the NFL. Sometimes you need a new voice to bring the team back to life. The brotherhood and rah rah stuff works when you are winning, but can get old quickly when things go bad.

But I think Vel's point hits the nail on the head. There is no way anyone can sit their during film session week after week without getting pissed about Beasley's play and how much he is making. His effort on the field is embarrassing.  I really do think that they need to make some personnel changes on the defensive side of the ball. I bench Beasley, Campbell, and Oliver. Those three continue to make too many mistakes and their effort is not there. We can't keep putting the same players on the field and expect a better result.

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2 hours ago, vel said:

Culture. When you see how much work you put in and other players put in half that and play more, it breeds contempt. It no longer becomes a merit based system and becomes a coach's buddy system. Coaches get attached to players instead of production. Vic getting $13MM to be a subpar player is a prime example. 

Great post.

Just like at any job! I think we all can name a co-worker or two that doesn't pull their weight, causes you to do more work, and some how that employee gets away with it. In fact sometimes, it is that employee that gets the promotion and the raise. Vic is that employee at the Falcons.

It is very frustrating and hard not to be so mad that you might not alway stay that extra hour, work harder with that employee to get the report done, or you even let your preformance go down out of contempt for the those who let this guy get away it.

lostnmexico, Flying Falcon and vel like this

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9 hours ago, vel said:

Culture. When you see how much work you put in and other players put in half that and play more, it breeds contempt. It no longer becomes a merit based system and becomes a coach's buddy system. Coaches get attached to players instead of production. Vic getting $13MM to be a subpar player is a prime example. 

Very astute, thank you.

 

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I never wanted to believe my pops completely...but he never liked NFL. Always more of a college and high school fan.

Players get paid and lose any heart for the game and their teammates...maybe it’s because the game gets harder.

Good coaching; and overall management, matters the most at pro level.

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Vel got me thinking, that's dangerous. I've often been to practice when they were running gassers. I've always wondered if the $200k a year guy looked at the $20mil guy next to him and thought "Wait a minute, I'm running just as hard as he is." Vel took it to the next level, "Why doesn't he even have to practice?".

Stray Dog THA GAWD likes this

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9 hours ago, vel said:

Culture. When you see how much work you put in and other players put in half that and play more, it breeds contempt. It no longer becomes a merit based system and becomes a coach's buddy system. Coaches get attached to players instead of production. Vic getting $13MM to be a subpar player is a prime example. 

This is exactly why tanking is just a dumb wish.

Should've rescinded Vic's option, signed a couple other rushers like Irvin (1 year vs 1 year right?)...and still could push DE of the future to next year.

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1 hour ago, Ergo Proxy said:

This is exactly why tanking is just a dumb wish.

Should've rescinded Vic's option, signed a couple other rushers like Irvin (1 year vs 1 year right?)...and still could push DE of the future to next year.

Should have just plain cut him. $13MM and he put up 5 sacks in two years? You wouldn't pay a guy who was coming off of two back to back 5 sack seasons a 5yr $65MM deal. That's what they are paying Vic basically. 

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10 hours ago, vel said:

Culture. When you see how much work you put in and other players put in half that and play more, it breeds contempt. It no longer becomes a merit based system and becomes a coach's buddy system. Coaches get attached to players instead of production. Vic getting $13MM to be a subpar player is a prime example. 

Truth. It’s not even a conscious purposeful thing, but comes out of the subconscious. 

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Good responses.....the only thing I can add from personal experience is when the team starts to lose, a guy on the team will wonder what's wrong...and it is very easy to use the coach as a scapegoat due to the bond most players have.  A couple start talking about it being the coach's fault, they start spreading that message and more buy into it out of frustration.

I took a class in college on sports psychology many years ago, but the professor brought this issue up once.  He mentioned what I stated above and I agreed with him...but he also brought up two other points I'll never forget...

1) Athletes can be pretty arrogant, so they want to point fingers even though they might be the one to blame

2) There is a usually a make or break game for a coach on the edge.  You can see the team at some point just completely give up and go through the motions once they get down after several losses.  At that point there is no way a coach can win them over.

An ineffective leader can only fake it for so long before everyone know they're full of sh1t. 

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23 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Truth. It’s not even a conscious purposeful thing, but comes out of the subconscious. 

It's an understood thing based on the environment.

This is why it's not JUST the coaches but the PLAYERS you have...Vic is one of the nicest guys. Doesn't seem to want to do anything to opposing QBs unless he can get a signature 3rd and 20 coverage sack by rarely beating outright a Tackle with a speed move...or a stunt that works.

Remember how he pulled up against Mariota vs TEN?

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27 minutes ago, vel said:

Should have just plain cut him. $13MM and he put up 5 sacks in two years? You wouldn't pay a guy who was coming off of two back to back 5 sack seasons a 5yr $65MM deal. That's what they are paying Vic basically. 

Well, I mean if it's rescinded he becomes a FA with no cap hit b/c there is nothing to cut...once it was made legit with new league year it's $13M dead money...but ya even if it only meant a 1 year rental...I'd rather we brought Irvin back instead at minimum...the rest can roll for that precious 2020 space we need.

vel likes this

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OK, here's another question. Do players quit because the want to play elsewhere? Vic Beasley sure seems like he's pulled up on purpose a few times.

 

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In his book, Phil Simms said that “the Job of a head coach is to get 53 players to give more, physically, mentally and emotionally than any normal human being wants to give”.

That quote struck a chord with me. As fans, we often put players on a pedestal, making unrealistic and unreasonable demands. We think that these guys are lucky because they earn big money just to play a sport and think that every cell in their body should be driven 24/7 by an obsessive drive to win Super Bowls and be the greatest players of all time. For example, how dare they take a couple of hours off in the week to go are watch The Joker. Shouldn’t they be spending every second of every day watching tape?

In reality, it just doesn’t work that way. Some players and hugely driven, but to many it is a job that they do because it’s what they do best and it pays well. These guys are ordinary human beings, with families they want to spend time with, and who get tired and crave downtime just as we do. They also do jobs which are hugely demanding, physically and mentally. 
 

Most of us don’t have jobs that involve violent collisions with 250+ Lb opponents. The money may be great, but it’s doesn’t do much to sooth the weekly cuts and bruises, the muscle and bone damage, or the months spent rehabbing serious injuries. It doesn’t make the endless hours of tape study any less tedious or mentally exhausting either.

The truth is, the NFL is a huge grind on the players physically, mentally and emotionally. Players can tune out and lose motivation or focus for a myriad of different reasons.

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