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ATL_666

Lack of Championships

72 posts in this topic

On 10/1/2019 at 11:53 AM, ATL_666 said:

I am excited about the Braves playoff run, but after living through the 90's & early 2000's I am expecting to get knocked out in the first round.  Please prove me wrong!

Not only take the lose at home but give up another record for the books given up 10 runs in the 1st inning. We don't  just lose, we go out with a bang. So sad.

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42 minutes ago, Atownbound said:

Not only take the lose at home but give up another record for the books given up 10 runs in the 1st inning. We don't  just lose, we go out with a bang. So sad.

Our teams are always setting the wrong kind of records.

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The reason Atlanta does not win championships is because the way these organizations are ran. If you notice with the Braves and Falcons they wont bring in any player who has a troubled back ground or will rock the boat, whereas the Patriots will take someone based on their talent, even with baggage. ( See Antonio Brown and others). The New England Patriots will also cut someone as soon as they know they cant produce, the Falcons try and be everyone's friend and want to blame a coach instead of admitting the dude just cant hack it in the NFL ( See Vic Beasley, Tak, Jake Matthews etc...). You cant be peoples friend and run a business, you have to be able to make business decisions and the NFL is all about winning.  The Braves problem is similar, the want to run everything by the book, this way, every day, same way, and yes that works to get you regular season wins but come post season you gotta have some emotion and realize you don't play or manage the game the same. Pitching Folty yesterday was stupid. A fastball pitcher in a game 5. Just plain dumb, should have been Soroka. Also Liberty media doesn't really care about the Braves the way Turner did, so you can expect the Braves to have good teams but not CHAMPIONSHIP teams. Liberty media isn't going to go out and pay top dollar for pitching, so you gotta have a strong farm system. The Hawks are same issue as Braves, because ownership wont spend the cash you will always have good but not great teams. Once a young player reaches a point to where they expect to get paid you can bank on the Hawks trading them. So Atlanta is not a cursed town they just have three organizations that are being ran to be good but not great. The sad thing about the Falcons is Blank will spend the cash but he doesn't spend it wisely. His front office is top heavy, he just over paid Julio who has a gimpy ankle so he cant practice weekly, which causes animosity amongst his teammates and effect his timing in a real game, and Blank spend money on WRs instead of investing in o line and d line, and lastly Blank wants to be everyone's friend instead of giving coach control to run their own team. How can a coach maintain order if they say one thing and then a player can run to Blank for protection. Blank can be players friends but stay out of coaches way if you want the hardware. No way on any other NFL team Vic Beasley is still taking game reps at this point, he's a bust, admit it move on, Same thing with Tak, admit it move on, correct the problem of who is picking out these players and reaching on draft day and put in some other players that can produce. You don't COACH UP in the NFL, if they don't have it by now they need to go sell cars.  

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On 10/1/2019 at 11:53 AM, FalconBlood23 said:

Why wouldn't you include the MLS? They're literally the pro soccer league for the country. 

Because it doesn’t the agenda...

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3 hours ago, ki46dinah said:

Because it doesn’t the agenda...

Because MLS is not on the same level as NFL, NBA, MLB, or NHL.   

 

To your point, I could have also included the WNBA in these counts, they are a professional sports team.  And I could have also included the Atlanta Legends of the AAF, they are a professional football team in Atlanta. 

 

Just because Atlanta United is popular doesn't mean that the MLS is on the same level as the other sports leagues.

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1 hour ago, ATL_666 said:

Because MLS is not on the same level as NFL, NBA, MLB, or NHL.   

 

To your point, I could have also included the WNBA in these counts, they are a professional sports team.  And I could have also included the Atlanta Legends of the AAF, they are a professional football team in Atlanta. 

Also given the strides MLS has made recently and the decline in the NFL Soccer seems to finally be making a serious impact in the USA and our home Team is leading that effort.

 

Just because Atlanta United is popular doesn't mean that the MLS is on the same level as the other sports leagues.

Given how pathetic our pro sports teams are it is ridiculous is just throw out the accomplishments of an ATL pro sports team that actually wins it all in dominating fashion instead of folding like lawn chairs.

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On 10/9/2019 at 5:32 PM, ATL_666 said:

I already explained this multiple times, I am not counting soccer.  I get it, Atlanta United is popular, but I am not throwing the MLS in the same category as NFL, NBA, and MLB.  Not even in the same category as NHL for that matter.  The same way I wouldn't count the Atlanta Dream if they won a championship.

Let’s pretend NHL is big four and MLS isn’t there yet:

Regular season TV viewership:

MLS 2019:

ESPN/ESPN2: 246.000

FS1: 161.000

FOX: 711.000

 

NHL 2018/19

NBC: 1.316 million

NBCSN: 313.000

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On 10/10/2019 at 1:25 PM, ATL_666 said:

Because MLS is not on the same level as NFL, NBA, MLB, or NHL.   

 

To your point, I could have also included the WNBA in these counts, they are a professional sports team.  And I could have also included the Atlanta Legends of the AAF, they are a professional football team in Atlanta. 

 

Just because Atlanta United is popular doesn't mean that the MLS is on the same level as the other sports leagues.

MLS not at same level of NHL?  
 

Regular season TV viewership:

MLS 2019:

ESPN/ESPN2: 246.000

FS1: 161.000

FOX: 711.000

 

NHL 2018/19

NBC: 1.316 million

NBCSN: 313.000

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3 hours ago, coastiemike said:

MLS not at same level of NHL?  
 

Regular season TV viewership:

MLS 2019:

ESPN/ESPN2: 246.000

FS1: 161.000

FOX: 711.000

 

NHL 2018/19

NBC: 1.316 million

NBCSN: 313.000

A large percentage of NHL teams are Canadian.  How do Canadian teams and viewers factor into these statistics?  Additionally, I would be curious to know how many games are represented in these numbers?  Are these average numbers per game or combined numbers for multiple games/season?  If you are going to look at statistics like this there are lots of variables that need to be considered.

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2 hours ago, ATL_666 said:

A large percentage of NHL teams are Canadian.  How do Canadian teams and viewers factor into these statistics?  Additionally, I would be curious to know how many games are represented in these numbers?  Are these average numbers per game or combined numbers for multiple games/season?  If you are going to look at statistics like this there are lots of variables that need to be considered.

Nah.  All that needs to be considered is MLS is going to pass NHL in the next two years or so.  At that point, why would you consider them the big 4?  

But if you want to go that route where you think a good share of the viewership is in Canada, that means MLS has already surpassed the NHL since the lion share of viewership for MLS is in the US. Anyways, keep on moving the goalposts.

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8 hours ago, coastiemike said:

Nah.  All that needs to be considered is MLS is going to pass NHL in the next two years or so.  At that point, why would you consider them the big 4?  

But if you want to go that route where you think a good share of the viewership is in Canada, that means MLS has already surpassed the NHL since the lion share of viewership for MLS is in the US. Anyways, keep on moving the goalposts.

If you are going to flash a few numbers you have to do a deep dive into them if you are making a genuine argument.  If one league has more U.S. teams than another that is going to skew the counts.  If one league has more games per season that is going to affect the numbers.  Goalposts are not being moved.  If you look at the 2 sports as a whole it is easy to see that the NHL is more popular in America than Soccer.  We live in ATL and soccer/United have caught on like fire and hockey is not at all popular down here, but we are just one region of a massive country.  Hockey is extremely popular in other regions of the country especially up North.  

If you are correct that MLS will "pass" NHL in the next year or 2 then feel free to reply to this post with your own numbers and metrics.  These are the numbers and metrics that I came up with and I did not use MLS.

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1 hour ago, ATL_666 said:

If you are going to flash a few numbers you have to do a deep dive into them if you are making a genuine argument.  If one league has more U.S. teams than another that is going to skew the counts.  If one league has more games per season that is going to affect the numbers.  Goalposts are not being moved.  If you look at the 2 sports as a whole it is easy to see that the NHL is more popular in America than Soccer.  We live in ATL and soccer/United have caught on like fire and hockey is not at all popular down here, but we are just one region of a massive country.  Hockey is extremely popular in other regions of the country especially up North.  

If you are correct that MLS will "pass" NHL in the next year or 2 then feel free to reply to this post with your own numbers and metrics.  These are the numbers and metrics that I came up with and I did not use MLS.

I live on the west coast.  Soccer is also more popular here than hockey.  I’ve lived in LA, San Francisco, Seattle, Indianapolis, Louisiana, Connecticut, Miami, and Nevada.  Soccer is more popular in all of those areas. It isn’t just the southeast.  If you think hockey is more popular in the US as a whole, I’m not sure what to tell you.  Go look at numbers for youth hockey versus soccer.  And yes, I understand the cost difference. My son played junior hockey for six years while we were stationed in CT.  
 

Additionally, you can go back six years ago, a few years before Atlanta United was in the league. Average attendance for MLS matches had surpassed NHL in 2012.  I’m sure those numbers are higher now with Atlanta and LA entering the league since this study was done, and with other large markets such as Miami and St Louis to enter in the next year or two.  Also note that the NHL is in more markets and should be far surpassing the MLS because of it. They aren’t. Here is the article from 2012. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1290390-nba-and-nhl-get-the-boot-mls-is-the-3rd-most-attended-sports-league-in-america

If you want to advance those numbers a few years later, For the 2015–16 season, NHL contests averaged 17,481 spectators with a range of about 22,000 on the high end (Chicago Blackhawks) and 12,000 on the low end (Carolina). MLS matches averaged 21,692, with Seattle’s runaway leadership at 42,636. So the MLS “high end” is almost double the NHL’s, all of which looks just swell for soccer. Again, this is before LAFC and AUFC entered the league, and it doesn’t even take into consideration the big soccer markets entering the league in the next few years.

But go ahead and keep thinking MLS won’t surpass NHL in the next few years. 

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On 10/10/2019 at 9:42 AM, Refried Beans said:

The reason Atlanta does not win championships is because the way these organizations are ran. If you notice with the Braves and Falcons they wont bring in any player who has a troubled back ground or will rock the boat, whereas the Patriots will take someone based on their talent, even with baggage. ( See Antonio Brown and others). The New England Patriots will also cut someone as soon as they know they cant produce, the Falcons try and be everyone's friend and want to blame a coach instead of admitting the dude just cant hack it in the NFL ( See Vic Beasley, Tak, Jake Matthews etc...). You cant be peoples friend and run a business, you have to be able to make business decisions and the NFL is all about winning.  The Braves problem is similar, the want to run everything by the book, this way, every day, same way, and yes that works to get you regular season wins but come post season you gotta have some emotion and realize you don't play or manage the game the same. Pitching Folty yesterday was stupid. A fastball pitcher in a game 5. Just plain dumb, should have been Soroka. Also Liberty media doesn't really care about the Braves the way Turner did, so you can expect the Braves to have good teams but not CHAMPIONSHIP teams. Liberty media isn't going to go out and pay top dollar for pitching, so you gotta have a strong farm system. The Hawks are same issue as Braves, because ownership wont spend the cash you will always have good but not great teams. Once a young player reaches a point to where they expect to get paid you can bank on the Hawks trading them. So Atlanta is not a cursed town they just have three organizations that are being ran to be good but not great. The sad thing about the Falcons is Blank will spend the cash but he doesn't spend it wisely. His front office is top heavy, he just over paid Julio who has a gimpy ankle so he cant practice weekly, which causes animosity amongst his teammates and effect his timing in a real game, and Blank spend money on WRs instead of investing in o line and d line, and lastly Blank wants to be everyone's friend instead of giving coach control to run their own team. How can a coach maintain order if they say one thing and then a player can run to Blank for protection. Blank can be players friends but stay out of coaches way if you want the hardware. No way on any other NFL team Vic Beasley is still taking game reps at this point, he's a bust, admit it move on, Same thing with Tak, admit it move on, correct the problem of who is picking out these players and reaching on draft day and put in some other players that can produce. You don't COACH UP in the NFL, if they don't have it by now they need to go sell cars.  

Everything you said was spot on. I mean EVERYTHING...

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9 minutes ago, coastiemike said:

I live on the west coast.  Soccer is also more popular here than hockey.  I’ve lived in LA, San Francisco, Seattle, Indianapolis, Louisiana, Connecticut, Miami, and Nevada.  Soccer is more popular in all of those areas. It isn’t just the southeast.  If you think hockey is more popular in the US as a whole, I’m not sure what to tell you.  Go look at numbers for youth hockey versus soccer.  And yes, I understand the cost difference. My son played junior hockey for six years while we were stationed in CT.  

Everything you are saying is anecdotal.  I lived in (blank), soccer was more popular here.  I am not saying that soccer isn't popular.  I am not talking about soccer as a sport.  I think most people acknowledge that worldwide soccer is the most popular sport.  The points that I am making are specifically about MLS.  MLS is not in the same category as the other leagues we have been discussing. 

The only stats you provided were a couple sentences of tv statistics with no context at all and even those few stats didn't do a good job of backing up your point.  All you said after those stats is that a year or 2 in the future MLS will be more popular.  If the MLS is so popular how come when the Championship game/match was over the results were not even on any of the main pages for any of the major sports web sites?  Every one I went to you had to scroll down to see that Atlanta United won.  When the Stanley Cup Finals are over it is front and center wherever you look, just like NBA, MLB, or NFL.   

I don't know what youth soccer has to do with anything.  Youth soccer is popular as ****, my guess is that it is more popular than youth football.  I don't know what you want us to take away from that in the context of this conversation.

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5 minutes ago, ATL_666 said:

Everything you are saying is anecdotal.  I lived in (blank), soccer was more popular here.  I am not saying that soccer isn't popular.  I am not talking about soccer as a sport.  I think most people acknowledge that worldwide soccer is the most popular sport.  The points that I am making are specifically about MLS.  MLS is not in the same category as the other leagues we have been discussing. 

The only stats you provided were a couple sentences of tv statistics with no context at all and even those few stats didn't do a good job of backing up your point.  All you said after those stats is that a year or 2 in the future MLS will be more popular.  If the MLS is so popular how come when the Championship game/match was over the results were not even on any of the main pages for any of the major sports web sites?  Every one I went to you had to scroll down to see that Atlanta United won.  When the Stanley Cup Finals are over it is front and center wherever you look, just like NBA, MLB, or NFL.   

I don't know what youth soccer has to do with anything.  Youth soccer is popular as ****, my guess is that it is more popular than youth football.  I don't know what you want us to take away from that in the context of this conversation.

Read the rest of my post then.

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30 minutes ago, coastiemike said:

I live on the west coast.  Soccer is also more popular here than hockey.  I’ve lived in LA, San Francisco, Seattle, Indianapolis, Louisiana, Connecticut, Miami, and Nevada.  Soccer is more popular in all of those areas. It isn’t just the southeast.  If you think hockey is more popular in the US as a whole, I’m not sure what to tell you.  Go look at numbers for youth hockey versus soccer.  And yes, I understand the cost difference. My son played junior hockey for six years while we were stationed in CT.  
 

Additionally, you can go back six years ago, a few years before Atlanta United was in the league. Average attendance for MLS matches had surpassed NHL in 2012.  I’m sure those numbers are higher now with Atlanta and LA entering the league since this study was done, and with other large markets such as Miami and St Louis to enter in the next year or two.  Also note that the NHL is in more markets and should be far surpassing the MLS because of it. They aren’t. Here is the article from 2012. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1290390-nba-and-nhl-get-the-boot-mls-is-the-3rd-most-attended-sports-league-in-america

If you want to advance those numbers a few years later, For the 2015–16 season, NHL contests averaged 17,481 spectators with a range of about 22,000 on the high end (Chicago Blackhawks) and 12,000 on the low end (Carolina). MLS matches averaged 21,692, with Seattle’s runaway leadership at 42,636. So the MLS “high end” is almost double the NHL’s, all of which looks just swell for soccer. Again, this is before LAFC and AUFC entered the league, and it doesn’t even take into consideration the big soccer markets entering the league in the next few years.

But go ahead and keep thinking MLS won’t surpass NHL in the next few years. 

You are comparing a 34 game season(MLS) versus an 82 game season(NHL).  Numbers get lower the more games you play per season.  You are also not taking into consideration size of the venues that teams are playing in.  MLS teams play in large stadiums that some can seat upwards of 80,000 people.  Hockey is played in much smaller arenas, like basketball.

Again you are looking at statistics with very little context and there are many variables that you are not taking into consideration.  Using the methodology you are using for attendance you could also say that MLS is right up there with the NBA which would be ridiculous.  It looks like NBA only averages about 17k-18k per game.  SO take that statistic with no additional context and you can also say that MLS is more popular than NBA.

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8 minutes ago, ATL_666 said:

You are comparing a 34 game season(MLS) versus an 82 game season(NHL).  Numbers get lower the more games you play per season.  You are also not taking into consideration size of the venues that teams are playing in.  MLS teams play in large stadiums that some can seat upwards of 80,000 people.  Hockey is played in much smaller arenas, like basketball.

Again you are looking at statistics with very little context and there are many variables that you are not taking into consideration.  Using the methodology you are using for attendance you could also say that MLS is right up there with the NBA which would be ridiculous.  It looks like NBA only averages about 17k-18k per game.  SO take that statistic with no additional context and you can also say that MLS is more popular than NBA.

Larger arenas and less games versus smaller arenas and 2.5 times more games. Also, there are only about three MLS stadiums that hold that number you are talking about,  most are smaller stadiums that hold 25000 or less, similar to hockey arenas.  Take out Seattle, Atlanta and NYCFC and most teams play in soccer specific stadiums. Here you go. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Soccer_stadiums

 It is all a wash.  There are viewership numbers out there and hockey on NBC Sports is barely ahead of ESPN and Fox on MLS numbers. Those TV numbers have nothing to do with size of stadiums. There are also 2.5 times more games that an be broadcast for hockey with only about a 6% more viewership.  Feel free to go research.  I’m off to a tailgate.  Again, if you think MLS won’t pass NHL in the next few years, you keep living with your head buried in the sand.  

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2 minutes ago, coastiemike said:

Larger arenas and less games versus smaller arenas and 2.5 times more games.  It is all a wash.  There are viewership numbers out there and hockey on NBC Sports is barely ahead of ESPN and Fox on MLS numbers. Those TV numbers have nothing to do with size of stadiums. There are also 2.5 times more games that an be broadcast for hockey with only about a 6% more viewership.  Feel free to go research.  I’m off to a tailgate.  Again, if you think MLS won’t pass NHL in the next few years, you keep living with your head buried in the sand.  

less games is a huge benefit in terms of ratings.  One reason NFL is so popular and so many people view is because they only play 16 regular season games.  If they played 82 or 162 games per season, which would be physically impossible, the ratings per game would go down.

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4 minutes ago, ATL_666 said:

less games is a huge benefit in terms of ratings.  One reason NFL is so popular and so many people view is because they only play 16 regular season games.  If they played 82 or 162 games per season, which would be physically impossible, the ratings per game would go down.

How many MLS teams play in front of 80,000? None.  Most of the stadiums are reduced.  Atlanta only plays to an average of 42,000 and that is the largest.  Seattle plays in front of less.  New England plays in front of a lot less.  Your 80000 number is way off. Most stadiums are 20000 or less, similar to hockey and basketball.  And you still haven’t addressed hockey and basketball in more markets.

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On 10/10/2019 at 9:42 AM, Refried Beans said:

The reason Atlanta does not win championships is because the way these organizations are ran.

Same is true for the Thrashers and Flames, sh*tty ownership and management.

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44 minutes ago, ATL_666 said:

You are comparing a 34 game season(MLS) versus an 82 game season(NHL).  Numbers get lower the more games you play per season.  You are also not taking into consideration size of the venues that teams are playing in.  MLS teams play in large stadiums that some can seat upwards of 80,000 people.  Hockey is played in much smaller arenas, like basketball.

Again you are looking at statistics with very little context and there are many variables that you are not taking into consideration.  Using the methodology you are using for attendance you could also say that MLS is right up there with the NBA which would be ridiculous.  It looks like NBA only averages about 17k-18k per game.  SO take that statistic with no additional context and you can also say that MLS is more popular than NBA.

Don't bother: soccer fans have said soccer is overtaking real sports since the 70's.  Still waiting for them to surpass the 100-year-old leagues.  Good luck with that.  And when they say soccer is the biggest sport globally, remind them that MLS is still 7th in the U.S., and 7th (at best) in the world.

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