quotemokc

Lets review some of our bad plays on offense [Coaches Film] [GIFs]

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Thought I might make some gifs of our bad plays so that we can get a better look at them than what the broadcast shows us.

 

RT #76 gets whooped and Ryan has to get it out quick to Ridley who is well covered, Ryan doesn't even get a chance to make another, a bit more time and he could have Sanu deep on the other side.

(12:22) (Shotgun) M.Ryan pass incomplete short right to C.Ridley (A.Jackson) [C.Wake].
3rd & 6 at ATL 21
 
giphy.gif
 
 
Not sure why we only send out 3 receivers, Ryan probably has to wait and hit Hooper to his right.
 
(12:26) T.Sambrailo reported in as eligible. M.Ryan pass incomplete deep left to J.Jones.
2nd & 6 at ATL 21
 
giphy.gif
 
 
#77 Makes Ryan run for his life, Ridley isn't open in time, route was too deep.
 
(:13) M.Ryan sacked at TEN 44 for -10 yards (J.Casey). FUMBLES (J.Casey) [J.Casey], RECOVERED by TEN-J.Casey at TEN 46. J.Casey to TEN 46 for no gain (A.Hooper).
2nd & 8 at TEN 34
 
giphy.gif
 
 
Ryan has nothing to go to, we settle for a missed FG, not sure what Julio is doing bottom of screen.
 
(:42) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Ryan pass incomplete short right [R.Evans].
3rd & 4 at TEN 14
 
giphy.gif
 
 
 
Ryan makes a GREAT throw to Sanu (only option) that he cannot reel in, not sure why we didn't run someone in to the middle.
 
(11:48) (Shotgun) M.Ryan pass incomplete deep middle to M.Sanu.
3rd & 20 at TEN 24
 
giphy.gif
 
 
LG gets owned, Ryan has nothing to go to in time before getting sacked.
 
(7:26) M.Ryan sacked at TEN 45 for -6 yards (H.Landry).
1st & 10 at TEN 39
 
giphy.gif
 
 
Couldn't find when this was, Ryan knows he has Julio running but can't get in a position to throw it there, should have gone to Ridley.
 
 
giphy.gif
 
 
Nothing to throw to.
 
(11:01) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Ryan sacked at ATL 39 for -5 yards (sack split by R.Evans and I.Mack).
1st & 10 at ATL 44
 
giphy.gif
 
 
The common theme of these plays seems to be that there is no quick throw for Ryan or anything underneath to keep their coverage closer to the los.
 

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I agree there’s no quick outlet/ slant. There’s also a lot of Oline learning and adjusting going on. 
IIRC, 2016 we had an unusually cohesive  Oline that helped we’ll together. Not a lot of star power but well gelled. I think that’s a big part of our problems.  And only time and a better strength and conditioning staff is gonna fix that. 

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As easy as it is to point out the miscues from the offensive line, for the most part this season, Matt has had a clean pocket. It's just that bad results follow. Now that's not to say the pass protection has been A1 or anything. The WR's not getting consistent separation plays a role as well

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19 minutes ago, dothan_birdman said:

I agree there’s no quick outlet/ slant. There’s also a lot of Oline learning and adjusting going on. 
IIRC, 2016 we had an unusually cohesive  Oline that helped we’ll together. Not a lot of star power but well gelled. I think that’s a big part of our problems.  And only time and a better strength and conditioning staff is gonna fix that. 

Worst offensive scheme when your oline is struggling and you dont have anyone in slant routes up in middle or check downs to R.Bs up in middle.

Kyle was master in creating such layers of options for Ryan.

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8 minutes ago, mattyicefalcon said:

Worst offensive scheme when your oline is struggling and you dont have anyone in slant routes up in middle or check downs to R.Bs up in middle.

Kyle was master in creating such layers of options for Ryan.

Which is why I agree our problem is fixable. A competent OC fixes a lot of the issues. 
better schemes give more options and that settles down the QB to limit dumb turnovers. 
I suspect the D has a similar problem that is also self inflicted. 

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Lots of long developing routes. 

  1. Yep McGary got beat.
  2. Missed op with Hooper being free just as Matt decides to chuck it.
  3. Carpenter got beat but LBs were patient and did not buy the play action so the throw to the flat was covered.  No one else open...throw away better than sack on 2nd down.
  4. Just fantastic coverage.
  5. Sanu has been one of the few consistent guys on O and that was a tough grab.  Still needed that one in a game like this.
  6. Yep...no time.
  7. Not sure...pocket wasn't clean but I think Matt could have maybe handled better.
  8. More great coverage and there were some good routes.  Left side of line collapsed and cut off three receivers.

 

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I don’t care about the long developing plays, but why are we not having Ridley use his change of direction?

The secondary has it easy with these routes. All they have to do is run as fast as the receiver. Even the in breaking route Ridley ran in the 3rd gif was rounded off. It looked like it was supposed to be a double move, but it looked like me running a route. 

There are routes in this offense that rely on agile wide receivers. Why aren’t we using them? They made it easy for the defense. 

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1 hour ago, JDaveG said:

I don’t care about the long developing plays, but why are we not having Ridley use his change of direction?

The secondary has it easy with these routes. All they have to do is run as fast as the receiver. Even the in breaking route Ridley ran in the 3rd gif was rounded off. It looked like it was supposed to be a double move, but it looked like me running a route. 

There are routes in this offense that rely on agile wide receivers. Why aren’t we using them? They made it easy for the defense. 

That may be what DK was talking about in his pressor where he mentioned that some guys are running the wrong router

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28 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

That may be what DK was talking about in his pressor where he mentioned that some guys are running the wrong router

Maybe.  It looked to me like everything was a 9 route or some sort of sail concept combined sometimes with a crosser or a very lazy skinny post, but the bigger problem I saw was there was no crispness on in-breaking and out-breaking routes.  It was sort of like "catch me if you can."  They could.

If guys are legitimately running the wrong routes, that would explain a lot.  That's still on coaching -- it's their job to install the gameplan, and the players have to be coached on what their assignment is on a particular play.  And it's not like they had a ton of responsibilities.  I wonder if some of the issue was option routes and guys just not choosing the correct option (or being confused, hence all the routes being run haphazardly).

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6 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Maybe.  It looked to me like everything was a 9 route or some sort of sail concept combined sometimes with a crosser or a very lazy skinny post, but the bigger problem I saw was there was no crispness on in-breaking and out-breaking routes.  It was sort of like "catch me if you can."  They could.

If guys are legitimately running the wrong routes, that would explain a lot.  That's still on coaching -- it's their job to install the gameplan, and the players have to be coached on what their assignment is on a particular play.  And it's not like they had a ton of responsibilities.  I wonder if some of the issue was option routes and guys just not choosing the correct option (or being confused, hence all the routes being run haphazardly).

I think you may be spot-on with the idea that they are choosing the wrong option in the option routes..   there have been more than a couple of occasions where it look like Ryan with expecting receiver to be in one area and they were somewhere else

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2 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

I think you may be spot-on with the idea that they are choosing the wrong option in the option routes..   there have been more than a couple of occasions where it look like Ryan with expecting receiver to be in one area and they were somewhere else

It also looked like the receivers were unsure.  Going back to that 3rd gif upstream, look at Ridley's route.  He stutters in the middle of the cut, rounds it off, and breaks open VERY late.  A crisp in cut and he's open a couple of seconds earlier.

I refuse to believe Koetter is coaching them to run routes like that.  Maybe it's as simple as no one is coaching them.  Shanahan was obsessive about route depth and precision.  Maybe nobody on the team is doing that now?  But Ridley is a pro, and he has to run the route correctly even if no one is there telling him to do it.  He's better than that.

But maybe it's that he's legitimately confused about the correct route on that play.  Or just slow to react to what he's seeing.  In either event, it's unacceptable.  Any fast corner can run with a fast WR.  Route running makes the difference.

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5 hours ago, quotemokc said:

Not sure why we only send out 3 receivers, Ryan probably has to wait and hit Hooper to his right.

It was a shot play. You send out three because you’re max protecting with seven to get time for the routes to get down the field. 
We ran one of those without Julio on the field for some reason. Can’t tell if that’s the one, but it was an odd call in that situation.

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8 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

It was a shot play. You send out three because you’re max protecting with seven to get time for the routes to get down the field. 
We ran one of those without Julio on the field for some reason. Can’t tell if that’s the one, but it was an odd call in that situation.

Situationally, shot plays work better with a dedication to the run game and play action.  We're not doing that.  We don't even appear to be trying.

Part of that is simply that the defense can't stop anyone.  But if you are not 100% dedicated to establishing the run, if you give up too early (and this has always been my main criticism of Koetter), then what's to keep the defense honest when you want to blow the top off?

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5 hours ago, quotemokc said:

Thought I might make some gifs of our bad plays so that we can get a better look at them than what the broadcast shows us.

 

RT #76 gets whooped and Ryan has to get it out quick to Ridley who is well covered, Ryan doesn't even get a chance to make another, a bit more time and he could have Sanu deep on the other side.

(12:22) (Shotgun) M.Ryan pass incomplete short right to C.Ridley (A.Jackson) [C.Wake].
3rd & 6 at ATL 21
 
giphy.gif
 
 
Not sure why we only send out 3 receivers, Ryan probably has to wait and hit Hooper to his right.
 
(12:26) T.Sambrailo reported in as eligible. M.Ryan pass incomplete deep left to J.Jones.
2nd & 6 at ATL 21
 
giphy.gif
 
 
#77 Makes Ryan run for his life, Ridley isn't open in time, route was too deep.
 
(:13) M.Ryan sacked at TEN 44 for -10 yards (J.Casey). FUMBLES (J.Casey) [J.Casey], RECOVERED by TEN-J.Casey at TEN 46. J.Casey to TEN 46 for no gain (A.Hooper).
2nd & 8 at TEN 34
 
giphy.gif
 
 
Ryan has nothing to go to, we settle for a missed FG, not sure what Julio is doing bottom of screen.
 
(:42) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Ryan pass incomplete short right [R.Evans].
3rd & 4 at TEN 14
 
giphy.gif
 
 
 
Ryan makes a GREAT throw to Sanu (only option) that he cannot reel in, not sure why we didn't run someone in to the middle.
 
(11:48) (Shotgun) M.Ryan pass incomplete deep middle to M.Sanu.
3rd & 20 at TEN 24
 
giphy.gif
 
 
LG gets owned, Ryan has nothing to go to in time before getting sacked.
 
(7:26) M.Ryan sacked at TEN 45 for -6 yards (H.Landry).
1st & 10 at TEN 39
 
giphy.gif
 
 
Couldn't find when this was, Ryan knows he has Julio running but can't get in a position to throw it there, should have gone to Ridley.
 
 
giphy.gif
 
 
Nothing to throw to.
 
(11:01) (No Huddle, Shotgun) M.Ryan sacked at ATL 39 for -5 yards (sack split by R.Evans and I.Mack).
1st & 10 at ATL 44
 
giphy.gif
 
 
The common theme of these plays seems to be that there is no quick throw for Ryan or anything underneath to keep their coverage closer to the los.
 

The Ryan haters really need to watch this and look at the length of the routes and the options Ryan has to go to, the. Look at the time he has to wait for receivers to get open or to their break. What more can he do?

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2 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Situationally, shot plays work better with a dedication to the run game and play action.  We're not doing that.  We don't even appear to be trying.

Part of that is simply that the defense can't stop anyone.  But if you are not 100% dedicated to establishing the run, if you give up too early (and this has always been my main criticism of Koetter), then what's to keep the defense honest when you want to blow the top off?

Exactly. Goes back to lack of identity. Feels like Dirk is just going up and down the play sheet calling anything to see if it works.

Nothing is being set up. None of the concepts are really being built on top of one another.

Your criticism is well founded. We aren’t even trying to control the clock and possess the ball with the run game.

We had six possessions in the first half and what did we come away with? 

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Just now, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Exactly. Goes back to lack of identity. Feels like Dirk is just going up and down the play sheet calling anything to see if it works.

Nothing is being set up. None of the concepts are really being built on top of one another.

Your criticism is well founded. We aren’t even trying to control the clock and possess the ball with the run game.

We had six possessions in the first half and what did we come away with? 

Shanahan talked about this in 2015, back when everyone thought he was an idiot and wanted Koetter back (LOL).  He said, basically, he runs a lot of 21 personnel because it's hard to run the ball without a fullback and a TE on the field, and even though we can shift out of that into more of a spread formation, you don't want to tip your hand on pass versus run because the run game keeps the defense honest.  It freezes the linebackers and safeties.  And then he said that's why you have to commit to the run game, and noted the reason we limit QB audibles is precisely because he doesn't want the QB audibling out of certain run plays, because you have to run the football to win in this league.

He had a plan.  He had a philosophy.  He was setting up moves to come by sticking to a concept whether it worked or not.  And notably, he used the outside zone scheme which, even when it isn't working, rarely results in negative plays.  It's a much more high percentage system than what Koetter likes to run.  And it still gets you yards in chunks precisely because it keeps the defense completely honest.

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38 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Exactly. Goes back to lack of identity. Feels like Dirk is just going up and down the play sheet calling anything to see if it works.

Nothing is being set up. None of the concepts are really being built on top of one another.

Your criticism is well founded. We aren’t even trying to control the clock and possess the ball with the run game.

We had six possessions in the first half and what did we come away with? 

Now you can see... They weren't doing anything exotic in coverage. The route concepts were miserable. Just bad. Nothing for the safeties to chase. I don't think a single play was set up to remove any of the safeties for a deep shot. No double moves. Nothing threatening. 

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31 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

Shanahan talked about this in 2015, back when everyone thought he was an idiot and wanted Koetter back (LOL).  He said, basically, he runs a lot of 21 personnel because it's hard to run the ball without a fullback and a TE on the field, and even though we can shift out of that into more of a spread formation, you don't want to tip your hand on pass versus run because the run game keeps the defense honest.  It freezes the linebackers and safeties.  And then he said that's why you have to commit to the run game, and noted the reason we limit QB audibles is precisely because he doesn't want the QB audibling out of certain run plays, because you have to run the football to win in this league.

He had a plan.  He had a philosophy.  He was setting up moves to come by sticking to a concept whether it worked or not.  And notably, he used the outside zone scheme which, even when it isn't working, rarely results in negative plays.  It's a much more high percentage system than what Koetter likes to run.  And it still gets you yards in chunks precisely because it keeps the defense completely honest.

The thing is... This stuff looks nothing like what he ran in 2012 nor what Tampa ran just last year. 

I remembered defending Kyle all offseason after 2015 for that exact reason. I saw exactly what he was trying to do, even though it wasn't hitting just yet. Like you said, it was a clear plan and philosophy. I can't tell you what Dirk is trying to accomplish. No clue. With so much talent, he's trying to play Iso Ball. I thought Sark was bad in relying on his talent to just win, but even he schemed some plays up. This is just a clusterf*ck. 

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1 hour ago, JDaveG said:

And then he said that's why you have to commit to the run game, and noted the reason we limit QB audibles is precisely because he doesn't want the QB audibling out of certain run plays, because you have to run the football to win in this league.

Dirk was lowkey dropping some jewels in that press conference yesterday that I'm just now catching.  He said there were actually more run plays called in the first half.  Don't remember how he elaborated on that, but it would be a clear indicator that at least some of it was checked out of, which now begs the question, of if we need scale back some of Matt's autonomy.

34 minutes ago, vel said:

Now you can see... They weren't doing anything exotic in coverage. The route concepts were miserable. Just bad. Nothing for the safeties to chase. I don't think a single play was set up to remove any of the safeties for a deep shot. No double moves. Nothing threatening. 

Yeah.  It's looking worse than I thought.  I was hoping maybe I was just missing something on the tv copy like I did against the Eagles where we actually did have some stuff open underneath on a few occasions they ran Cover-0 at us, but nah.  It's bad.  Tennessee got up and straight dropped those safeties back in the middle of nowhere and we didn't do anything to force them out of it.

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