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Why Matt Ryan takes so many sacks


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3 minutes ago, Jerz #Quinning said:

Plays where every receiver is covered happens all the time but you have QB's that can buy enough time to spring their guy open and you have QB's that don't have that ability. Simple stuff. 

I also acknowledged Ryan didn't even have to vacate to his left and he could have bought even more time for his receivers to get open. It only takes 1 or 2 plays to change the whole scope of the game/ offensive drive. Is it too much to ask your 30 million dollar QB to put the team on his back and make a play despite poor pass blocking at least once or twice a game on crucial downs? I guess so when your QB is Matt. 

This is the NFL bro everything isn't always going to break your way. You sometimes have to will yourself into success.

Ryan isn't one of those QB's.

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There’s no one open. The pressure wasn’t even the worst I’ve seen it this season. He had multiple snaps yesterday where he has time to get through all 5 reads, and you could see his head moving f

Bro do you know how rare it is for a QB to get through all five reads? If a QB has time to get  through all five reads and no one is open, then no one is getting open.

The problem is the offense under Koetter is designed for long developing plays that this OL cannot block for. Need to go back to the quick passing game from years prior 

2 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

What changed is Koetter wasn’t calling the plays in Tampa.  When he did, they did what we are doing.  Yards but no points.  Koetter calling plays is a 21 ppg guy.  
 

Tampa put up 84 points the last two weeks  and has nearly 500 yards rushing on the year.  We are at 281 yards rushing despite averaging more ypc than TB

Lol

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Some of the greatest most clutch plays in NFL history are when a QB dodges pressure in his face to buy enough time for his guys to get open. With the level of competition in this league it is necessary to have that ability. When you have an unathletic antsy QB that can't finesse the DL you are going to get what we've been getting from Ryan since 2012. Ryan simply takes too many unnecessary sacks when a more nimble QB could maybe escape to throw the ball away or hit a receiver downfield.

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1 hour ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

There’s no one open.

The pressure wasn’t even the worst I’ve seen it this season. He had multiple snaps yesterday where he has time to get through all 5 reads, and you could see his head moving from one side of the field to the other. No one was open, not even an outlet.

Ill let you draw your own conclusion from there.

I heard a quote from Phil Simms on Ryan years ago. Simms felt Ryan did not have the arm strength to be truly top tier HOF level. His thought was that the windows are tight in the NFL. You don't often have guys wide open. If a QB begins doesn't have confidence in his ability to rocket that ball into those tight windows, it affects his mental game. It comes down to arm strength (or perceived arm strength) and accuracy. Guys that were once open, no longer seem open. So the QB hesitates a split second too long and/or holds the ball and tries to scramble.

When you look at us on film, you're correct. The receivers really ARE NOT very open. But a top-tier NFL QB is supposed to be able to find a way to get that ball in there most of the time. Especially in single coverage. We see guys do it ALL the time. We've seen Ryan himself do it many, many, many times. Even yesterday in the deep in to Julio, or in the deep out to Julio against Philly.

 

A lot comes down to confidence. Ryan just doesn't seem to have it right now. It's like in golf when your driver is sometimes going right and sometimes going left. You've got a two-way miss and you're not having that good of a day. And then suddenly you're up against a very long hole with a very tight tee shot. It's REALLY hard to just let that driver loose and rip it. BUT THAT IS WHAT IS REQUIRED TO PAR OR BIRDIE THE HOLE.

 

When QBs get to the point that when they let that ball go when they need to, and they're consistently throwing more INTs that TDs, then they are nearing the end of their career. It happens to every QB, sooner or later. Ryan may have a few more great years. He may not. There's no guarantee. Personally I thought he was done before 2016. He proved me wrong then. Maybe he can do it again. I hope so. 

.

 

Edited by since68andcounting
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29 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

You see this stuff so much more clearly than me, but at the end of the play, I saw 2 receivers jogging with a corner basically jogging with them.  Like they're just having a stroll.

Are you seeing something specifically that says this is schematic, or is it possible the players just don't give a ****?

I mean, one of them was Free.  He basically touched a guy as if he were blocking someone and then jogged toward the sidelines.  Not what I would call a maximal effort.  I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but it looks staged, which is an indication to me some dudes are taking plays off.

Honestly, it's a case where their DC beat our OC.  That defensive call beat that play.  Dean Pees was all over everything we were trying to do yesterday.

Free was in a check release.  His man didn't come so he released out into the pattern, and got caught up in traffic.  Linebacker was all over him anyway.  Looks like the receiver could see Matt throwing the ball away.  By the time he comes into frame the ball was gone that's why it look like he was chilling, but until then -- and I'd have to see the all-22 -- but I'd bet he was working across to get open.

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6 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

Matt Ryan excuses:

1. the receivers

2. the offensive line

3. Sark

4. not having shanahan

5. koetter

6. quinn

7. stoker

8............

I never said any of that. The board might have but I never have. I call Ryan out when it's his fault we suck. All I've said is Ryan is who he is and our whole team sucks right now. This offense system doesn't fit the line and players we have. Plus I've said since last year that Quinn in the wrong defensive coach for us; his defense and scheme is out date and was disected, exposed, and the blueprint to beat it was written his last year in Seattle and published for every team our Superbowl year. Harry Douglas even went on 929 last year and spelled out the weaknesses of our scheme and how to beat it. 

There isn't many players on this team that doesn't share the blame in this team being horrible. Ryan is a big BIG part of the blame also. My big point is Shanny proved that the right scheme with our offensive talent is the difference.

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43 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

 

The only receiver who came open was the TE late at the bottom of the screen who wasn't even part of the read as he he was in a block/release. He held the ball for 5.69 seconds here.

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Cmon really look at this play with me Pmf. Don't you agree Ryan could have bought a little more time inside the pocket if he didn't vacate to his left away from his protection? This is what kills me with Ryan a lot of times. His feel for the pocket is not on par with top Qb's in this league. That's why I can't call him elite. He can't finagle the pocket like the greats sometimes do.

Right here he kind of fu*ked himself by rolling to his left when he could have drifted to his right since the DE took such a wide angle and he would have still been in the face of his protection. Stocker would have been wide open right in front of his face running upfield. Thats the difference between a big play and a dud sometimes in this league. Ryan creates very few big plays compared to other QB's..especially with the weapons he has. Backyard football will always be necessary when **** hits the fan in a broken play.

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In that playoff game against Philadelphia.  That final sequence of plays is TEXTBOOK on why I hate pocket quarterbacks in today's NFL.  Philly didn't even BOTHER to double team Julio down there in that one.  They played man across the board and dared Ryan to make a play with his arm.  Sark being used to calling plays for a quarterback who doesn't run, was forced to call plays down there that compressed the field even further.  Perfect example was the fourth down play where he had Ryan roll to his right.  Play doomed from the start because you have rolled a defense that KNOWS nothing is gonna pop back behind them to their left.  They don't have to stay home.  They got to defend half the field and shut that garbage down. 

Earlier on that four play sequence, there were opportunities for Ryan to take off up the middle.  He wouldn't have scored but he would have made the defense rethink that man coverage down there.  I give Sark credit because he was thinking the same thing which is why he attempted that middle screen ( my bad, shovel pass)  that blowed up.  He was TRYING to take advantage of a defense that he knew was gonna part the seas up the middle not worrying about Ryan.  The running back didn't run to the open area on that one and caused the play to look horrible. 

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15 minutes ago, since68andcounting said:

I heard a quote from Phil Simms on Ryan years ago. Simms felt Ryan did not have the arm strength to be truly top tier HOF level. His thought was that the windows are tight in the NFL. You don't often have guys wide open. If a QB begins doesn't have confidence in his ability to rocket that ball into those tight windows, it affects his mental game. It comes down to arm strength (or perceived arm strength) and accuracy. Guys that were once open, no longer seem open. So the QB hesitates a split second too long and/or holds the ball and tries to scramble.

When you look at us on film, you're correct. The receivers really ARE NOT very open. But a top-tier NFL QB is supposed to be able to find a way to get that ball in there most of the time. Especially in single coverage. We see guys do it ALL the time. We've seen Ryan himself do it many, many, many times. Even yesterday in the deep in to Julio, or in the deep out to Julio against Philly.

 

A lot comes down to confidence. Ryan just doesn't seem to have it right now. It's like in golf when your driver is sometimes going right and sometimes going left. You've got a two-way miss and you're not having that good of a day. And then suddenly you're up against a very long hole with a very tight tee shot. It's REALLY hard to just let that driver loose and rip it. BUT THAT IS WHAT IS REQUIRED TO PAR OR BIRDIE THE HOLE.

 

When QBs get to the point that when they let that ball go when they need to, and they're consistently throwing more INTs that TDs, then they are nearing the end of their career. It happens to every QB, sooner or later. Ryan may have a few more great years. He may not. There's no guarantee. Personally I thought he was done before 2016. He proved me wrong then. Maybe he can do it again. I hope so. 

Great post

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8 minutes ago, Jerz #Quinning said:

Cmon really look at this play with me Pmf. Don't you agree Ryan could have bought a little more time inside the pocket if he didn't vacate to his left away from his protection? This is what kills me with Ryan a lot of times. His feel for the pocket is not on par with top Qb's in this league. That's why I can't call him elite. He can't finagle the pocket like the greats sometimes do.

Right here he kind of fu*ked himself by rolling to his left when he could have drifted to his right since the DE took such a wide angle and he would have still been in the face of his protection. Stocker would have been wide open right in front of his face running upfield. Thats the difference between a big play and a dud sometimes in this league. Ryan creates very few big plays compared to other QB's..especially with the weapons he has. Backyard football will always be necessary when **** hits the fan in a broken play.

At this point, man, what are we really talking about?  We've both agreed Matt Ryan isn't that kind of quarterback.

Sure he didn't have to roll left?  Sure maybe if he held the ball for 9 seconds someone would have come open, but why aren't you more bothered that no one did come open in almost six seconds.

And yes, sometimes QB's have to make plays with their legs.  Sure, an elite QB is gonna have to make plays when everything isn't perfect... but if I'm telling you that this type of play happened frequently yesterday, then why don't you think that the true culprit as to why Matt takes so many sacks lies elsewhere?

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12 minutes ago, Jerz #Quinning said:

Cmon really look at this play with me Pmf. Don't you agree Ryan could have bought a little more time inside the pocket if he didn't vacate to his left away from his protection? This is what kills me with Ryan a lot of times. His feel for the pocket is not on par with top Qb's in this league. That's why I can't call him elite. He can't finagle the pocket like the greats sometimes do.

Right here he kind of fu*ked himself by rolling to his left when he could have drifted to his right since the DE took such a wide angle and he would have still been in the face of his protection. Stocker would have been wide open right in front of his face running upfield. Thats the difference between a big play and a dud sometimes in this league. Ryan creates very few big plays compared to other QB's..especially with the weapons he has. Backyard football will always be necessary when **** hits the fan in a broken play.

And when you force Ryan to his left as a defense, you have won because Ryan has to stop and set his feet to throw...

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18 minutes ago, since68andcounting said:

When QBs get to the point that when they let that ball go when they need to, and they're consistently throwing more INTs that TDs, then they are nearing the end of their career. It happens to every QB, sooner or later. Ryan may have a few more great years. He may not. There's no guarantee. Personally I thought he was done before 2016. He proved me wrong then. Maybe he can do it again. I hope so. 

.

 

Speaks volumes!!! The Falcons should be considering the developmental stage of a new QB!! I’m not saying get rid of an over priced Ryan. But have a back up plan. 2016 and last year Matt looked really good. 
 

You have to pay attention to ROI!!! What good is to pay sky high prices and get nothing in return?

Freeman is a waste of money! Beasley is a waste of money! Ryan is too inconsistent to be considered a good investment. Julio is earning his so far.

Its hard justifying over paying when you put the product they have last few years.

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26 minutes ago, since68andcounting said:

I heard a quote from Phil Simms on Ryan years ago. Simms felt Ryan did not have the arm strength to be truly top tier HOF level. His thought was that the windows are tight in the NFL. You don't often have guys wide open. If a QB begins doesn't have confidence in his ability to rocket that ball into those tight windows, it affects his mental game. It comes down to arm strength (or perceived arm strength) and accuracy. Guys that were once open, no longer seem open. So the QB hesitates a split second too long and/or holds the ball and tries to scramble.

When you look at us on film, you're correct. The receivers really ARE NOT very open. But a top-tier NFL QB is supposed to be able to find a way to get that ball in there most of the time. Especially in single coverage. We see guys do it ALL the time. We've seen Ryan himself do it many, many, many times. Even yesterday in the deep in to Julio, or in the deep out to Julio against Philly.

 

A lot comes down to confidence. Ryan just doesn't seem to have it right now. It's like in golf when your driver is sometimes going right and sometimes going left. You've got a two-way miss and you're not having that good of a day. And then suddenly you're up against a very long hole with a very tight tee shot. It's REALLY hard to just let that driver loose and rip it. BUT THAT IS WHAT IS REQUIRED TO PAR OR BIRDIE THE HOLE.

 

When QBs get to the point that when they let that ball go when they need to, and they're consistently throwing more INTs that TDs, then they are nearing the end of their career. It happens to every QB, sooner or later. Ryan may have a few more great years. He may not. There's no guarantee. Personally I thought he was done before 2016. He proved me wrong then. Maybe he can do it again. I hope so. 

.

 

Brah, I been saying that for years about Ryan.  EVERYTHING goes back to his lack of arm strength.  I just made a comment in this very thread saying the exact same thing Simms said "  Ryan cannot throw into tight windows."   You said he did early in his career but I must have missed that.  The problem REALLY pops up in redzone.  If Ryan was mobile then it wouldn't mean as much, but since he is not mobile, defenses can do anything they want down there which leads to receivers having them tight windows.  Ryan either throws a pick or throws it out of bounds because he don't have IT.   Simms is correct on his assessment...

Edited by slickgadawg
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22 minutes ago, since68andcounting said:

When you look at us on film, you're correct. The receivers really ARE NOT very open. But a top-tier NFL QB is supposed to be able to find a way to get that ball in there most of the time. Especially in single coverage. We see guys do it ALL the time. We've seen Ryan himself do it many, many, many times. Even yesterday in the deep in to Julio, or in the deep out to Julio against Philly.

 

A lot comes down to confidence. Ryan just doesn't seem to have it right now. 

Total agreement.  QB's have to make stick throws.  Matt has made many of those throws in his career.  I started threads about it a few years ago and people were telling me the offense was bad because he had to make those tight throws instead of the wide open ones that he had with Shanny (which at his point is far overblown).

I don't know that Matt has lost the ability to make those throws overnight.  Maybe he has, I don't know.  But I do know Matt made those throws when Matt had confidence, and he doesn't look like he's playing with any right now.  And no one on that offense really looks like they're in synch.

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6 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

At this point, man, what are we really talking about?  We've both agreed Matt Ryan isn't that kind of quarterback.

Sure he didn't have to roll left?  Sure maybe if he held the ball for 9 seconds someone would have come open, but why aren't you more bothered that no one did come open in almost six seconds.

And yes, sometimes QB's have to make plays with their legs.  Sure, an elite QB is gonna have to make plays when everything isn't perfect... but if I'm telling you that this type of play happened frequently yesterday, then why don't you think that the true culprit as to why Matt takes so many sacks lies elsewhere?

Tom Brady and vast majority of other traditional pocket QBs don’t do what the OP is asking for.

We just want more #yolo because at least we could emotionally understand after not winning in the playoffs it’s “defense isn’t elite” or “why does Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers have trouble carrying a team themselves”...

That’s the only takeaway I see here.

Grass isn’t always greener.

The most recent mobile QBs to win SBs had AMAZING defenses and competent OCs at minimum and someone else to take the heat off.

But let’s plan on failure and hope broken play ball gets us consistently in the mix...

:huh:

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50 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

At this point, man, what are we really talking about?  We've both agreed Matt Ryan isn't that kind of quarterback.

Sure he didn't have to roll left?  Sure maybe if he held the ball for 9 seconds someone would have come open, but why aren't you more bothered that no one did come open in almost six seconds.

And yes, sometimes QB's have to make plays with their legs.  Sure, an elite QB is gonna have to make plays when everything isn't perfect... but if I'm telling you that this type of play happened frequently yesterday, then why don't you think that the true culprit as to why Matt takes so many sacks lies elsewhere?

Because this is what he’s done in every offense he’s been in.

Even with Shanny on 3rd and longs there times receivers would either be wide open or just breaking open but Ryan often times can’t see them because he succumbs to the pocket in 3 seconds instead of making just a quick nifty move that doesnt require huge athletic ability to buy him an extra second or so. He can never make the first guy miss.  

He has one of the best receiving cores in this league. Theres no reason, and I don’t care who is calling plays, that we should not be coming up with more big plays. Dirk is competent dude. I’m not about to sell him so short that he is the worst OC in the league from the past 5 years just to cape for Ryan.

Edited by Jerz #Quinning
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3 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

Brah, I been saying that for years about Ryan.  EVERYTHING goes back to his lack of arm strength.  I just made a comment in this very thread saying the exact same thing Simms said "  Ryan cannot throw into tight windows."   You said he did early in his career but I must have missed that.  The problem REALLY pops up in redzone.  If Ryan was mobile then it wouldn't mean as much, but since he is not mobile, defenses can do anything they want down there which leads to receivers having them tight windows.  Ryan either throws a pick or throws it out of bounds because he don't have IT.   Simms is correct on his assessment...

He’s been figured out and these guys just can’t and refuse to see that!

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1 hour ago, Jerz #Quinning said:

The difference between a sustained 10 play drive and a 3 and out often times can be chalked up to one play.

When you have a QB that has no elusiveness and isn’t the slightest bit of nimble you squander many opportunities against any kind of pressure to keep your defense off the field.

No OL in this league perfectly pass blocks for 5+ seconds allowing their QB to scan the field and deliver a pass from a clean pocket on every play. Sometimes your QB has to make something shake for themselves to spring an offense with a new set of downs. Help your OL out for once.

Here you have a QB thats not the most athletic but he has quick and nimble feet giving passrushers a tough time to bring him down. Without Minshews heroics on this one singular play there’s a good chance the Jags lose this game.

Another crucial 3rd down where an elusive QB saves day to continue the drive. Instead this is what we have on crucial downs to save the day.

In no way am I trying to say Minshew is a better QB than Ryan. These are just the examples of playmaking ability that Ryan truly lacks with the kind of weapons any QB would dream of. Could you imagine Ryan being able to avoid pressure and buy time behind the line of scrimmage to hit one of our playmaking receivers down field for a huge play?

No, you're just speaking from a Madden Perspective. He didn't take a sack there. He did the only thing he could do. 

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Just now, slickgadawg said:

Brah, I been saying that for years about Ryan.  EVERYTHING goes back to his lack of arm strength.  I just made a comment in this very thread saying the exact same thing Simms said "  Ryan cannot throw into tight windows."   You said he did early in his career but I must have missed that.  He REALLY pops up in redzone.  If Ryan was mobile then it wouldn't mean as much, but since he is not mobile, defenses can do anything they want down there which leads to receivers having them tight windows.  Ryan either throws a pick or throws it out of bounds because he don't have IT.   Simms is correct on his assessment...

 

He's made TONS of throws into tight windows. Even a few this year. But his confidence level seems to vacillate between "heck yeah, I can do this" and "uhhh...maybe not now." I think some is physical, some is mental. Probably more mental. This is why he's always been (even in college) soooo dangerous late in a game when he's way behind. He has nothing to lose, and he knows it. When he's feeling it, he's as good as anyone. But to me he's NOT feeling it right now. Maybe it's lack of confidence in the new offense and receivers. IDK.


 

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