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Why Matt Ryan takes so many sacks


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29 minutes ago, jlrfalcon said:

 

So Ryan has had 2 "best" centers maybe - but pull up all the starting OL's and the guy has never had a starting lineup like Brady or Brees always have (and whoever is QB for the Cowboys) except maybe the piecemeal that stayed injury-free in 2016-17.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/atl/lineups.htm

There are really only two excellent lines since Matt Ryan has played here, in 2008 and in 2016. The guy that said Matt Ryan needs perfect line play to be effective is a comedian. 

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There’s no one open. The pressure wasn’t even the worst I’ve seen it this season. He had multiple snaps yesterday where he has time to get through all 5 reads, and you could see his head moving f

Bro do you know how rare it is for a QB to get through all five reads? If a QB has time to get  through all five reads and no one is open, then no one is getting open.

The problem is the offense under Koetter is designed for long developing plays that this OL cannot block for. Need to go back to the quick passing game from years prior 

7 minutes ago, Dr Long Shot said:

And how are Ryan Schrader and Ben Garland doing so far this year? The fact our entire right side of the line wasn't NFL starting caliber (or NFL caliber period) had nothing to do with the decision, right? 

 

Ben Garland sucked and has always sucked but let's not pretend like Schraeder didn't have some great seasons. He certainly looked competent enough to warrant that big contract he got, and when he regressed we had to replace him.

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52 minutes ago, jlrfalcon said:

So Ryan has had 2 "best" centers maybe - but pull up all the starting OL's and the guy has never had a starting lineup like Brady or Brees always have (and whoever is QB for the Cowboys at any time) except maybe the piecemeal that stayed injury-free in 2016-17.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/atl/lineups.htm

"This QB has had horrible offensive lines his whole career" and "this QB has never had an elite offensive line" are two different statements.

My point was responding to the notion that he's had some of the worst offensive lines in the league. Which is true for 2013-2015, they ranked in the bottom half of the league. For the other 7 years of his career, though, they've almost always graded out in the top half at least.

MOST QBs are not going to get elite offensive lines like Brady and Brees. And even those two QBs have had years with mediocre offensive lines and they still churn out better production.

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15 minutes ago, Dr Long Shot said:

There are really only two excellent lines since Matt Ryan has played here, in 2008 and in 2016. The guy that said Matt Ryan needs perfect line play to be effective is a comedian. 

How many QBs in the league have an "excellent" lines? And what does excellent even mean and how are we defining it.

Almost every fan from any team thinks their OL sucks. 

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1 hour ago, Jerz #Quinning said:

Because Ryan needs the OL to be perfect. Even a satisfactory line gives him too much to handle in crunch time situations.

This is so blatantly wrong it’s ridiculous.

He didn’t seem to need a perfect line last year.

Do Brady and Brees function well with that OL or in any way do better than Matt in 2018?

I’ll wait.

You just can’t let it go tho.

Stay thirsty for Mobile QBs I guess.

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1 minute ago, Ergo Proxy said:

This is so blatantly wrong it’s ridiculous.

He didn’t seem to need a perfect line last year.

Do Brady and Brees function well with that OL or in any way do better than Matt in 2018?

I’ll wait.

You just can’t let it go tho.

Stay thirsty for Mobile QBs I guess.

I don't think this helps your argument because Jerz' whole schtick is that he wants an athletic QB and neither of the QBs you mentioned are athletic.

It would've made more sense if you asked "would Rodgers or Wilson have done any better than Matt in 2018" and he would've answered "probably, yeah".

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2 hours ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

I don't think this helps your argument because Jerz' whole schtick is that he wants an athletic QB and neither of the QBs you mentioned are athletic.

It would've made more sense if you asked "would Rodgers or Wilson have done any better than Matt in 2018" and he would've answered "probably, yeah".

Why single out Matt? That’s my thing.

He makes OLs look better when the offense is clicking actually. Ball is out.

He wants backyard QB.

Ok.

Meanwhile, pocket QBs will keep winning SBs.

Wilson is an exception in recent history and Mahomes is unprecedented at his rate.

The pass last night to Lockett is impressive but hardly a reliable way to win taking 7 seconds to throw and trying to repeat low percentage plays.

Usually defense/ball control and a reliable system gets you consistently far.

When we made our run in 2016 it was with a decent TO generating D but not much more. Ironically, we were built fairly well to deal with Rodgers and Wilson trying to play shootout with our pocket QB.

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9 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Why single out Matt? That’s my thing.

He makes OLs look better when the offense is clicking actually. Ball is out.

He wands backyard QB.

Ok.

Meanwhile, pocket QBs will keep winning SBs.

Wilson is an exception in recent history and Mahomes is unprecedented at his rate.

The pass last night to Lockett is impressive but hardly a reliable way to win taking 7 seconds to throw and trying to repeat low percentage plays.

Usually defense/ball control and a reliable system gets you consistently far.

When we made our run in 2016 it was with a decent TO generating D but not much more. Ironically, we were built fairly well to deal with Rodgers and Wilson trying to play shootout with our pocket QB.

It wasn't really ironic, we had a historically great offense and we were going against two injury depleted teams at home. Remember Wilson had the worst offensive line in the league and accounted for 81% of his teams total yards? Rodgers had a freaking receiver at runningback and a bottom 3 rushing attack and still was an MVP candidate.

And you know just because a QB CAN run doesn't make them a backyard QB or a running QB, right? It just makes them athletic. Wentz, Wilson, Rodgers, Mahomes, Watson, Murray, even Prescott are all very good pocket passers. They just happen to have the ability to run.

And because of the RPO, it's becoming a lot less rare man. Look at the QBs coming out of the next two drafts. The vast majority of those guys can move. ****, even Daniel Jones has got some legs on him and I've *never* heard someone refer to him as a "running QB".. I can only wonder why.

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1 hour ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

It wasn't really ironic, we had a historically great offense and we were going against two injury depleted teams at home. Remember Wilson had the worst offensive line in the league and accounted for 81% of his teams total yards? Rodgers had a freaking receiver at runningback and a bottom 3 rushing attack and still was an MVP candidate.

And you know just because a QB CAN run doesn't make them a backyard QB or a running QB, right? It just makes them athletic. Wentz, Wilson, Rodgers, Mahomes, Watson, Murray, even Prescott are all very good pocket passers. They just happen to have the ability to run.

Peeps argue from the premise of extremes just to have a semblance of a rebuttal. They think I want the most athletically capable QB there is just because he's mobile. LMAO. I simple want a QB that isn't as athletically inept as Qb's like Ryan and Eli. 

I want a QB that has options. A pass first, but if thats not there they can either run for a few yards or buy time in the pocket.

First and foremost you have to be able to pass the ball but secondly the ability to sideskirt pressure at a higher rate than a statue.

Teams have caught on to Ryan. 

If a defense is able to throw off the timing and rhythm of the passing game he is fvcked. His success strongly coincides with rhythm and timing. If that is compromised I want a QB that can simply possibly beat you by knowing how to maneuver in the pocket.

When pressure gets in Ryans face or the timing of the passing game is thrown off, he folds.

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2 hours ago, Ergo Proxy said:

This is so blatantly wrong it’s ridiculous.

He didn’t seem to need a perfect line last year..

Why? Because of his stats?

QB sacks on 3rd down with the game in hand don't show up in passing stats. QB sacks squandering your last possession to score doesn't show up in passing stats.

Try upgrading your argument from just regurgitating Matt's passing stats. They only tell half of the story.

#StatRyan

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4 hours ago, Jerz #Quinning said:

Peeps argue from the premise of extremes just to have a semblance of a rebuttal. They think I want the most athletically capable QB there is just because he's mobile. LMAO. I simple want a QB that isn't as athletically inept as Qb's like Ryan and Eli. 

I want a QB that has options. A pass first, but if thats not there they can either run for a few yards or buy time in the pocket.

First and foremost you have to be able to pass the ball but secondly the ability to sideskirt pressure at a higher rate than a statue.

Teams have caught on to Ryan. 

If a defense is able to throw off the timing and rhythm of the passing game he is fvcked. His success strongly coincides with rhythm and timing. If that is compromised I want a QB that can simply possibly beat you by knowing how to maneuver in the pocket.

When pressure gets in Ryans face or the timing of the passing game is thrown off, he folds.

Everything you just said here fits Tom Brady word for word. Yet the Patriots still have all those Super Bowl rings. You can say that about the majority of NFL QBs and it has absolutely nothing to do with athleticism or lack there of.

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5 hours ago, Jerz #Quinning said:

Why? Because of his stats?

QB sacks on 3rd down with the game in hand don't show up in passing stats. QB sacks squandering your last possession to score doesn't show up in passing stats.

Try upgrading your argument from just regurgitating Matt's passing stats. They only tell half of the story.

#StatRyan

Career Sack Percentage

  1. Drew Brees - 3.9%
  2. Patrick Mahomes - 3.9%
  3. Tom Brady - 4.8%
  4. Eli Manning - 4.8%
  5. Derek Carr - 4.9%
  6. Matt Ryan - 4.9%
  7. Kirk Cousins - 5.2%
  8. Nick Foles - 5.3%
  9. Case Keenum - 5.4%
  10. Joe Flacco - 5.6%
  11. Baker Mayfield - 5.6%
  12. Philip Rivers - 5.6%
  13. Matthew Stafford - 5.7%
  14. Jared Goff - 5.9%
  15. Carson Wentz - 5.9%
  16. Andy Dalton - 6.0%
  17. Jameis Winston - 6.1%
  18. Jimmy Garoppolo - 6.5%
  19. Ben Roethlisberger - 6.5%
  20. Dak Prescott - 6.8%
  21. Mitchell Trubisky - 6.8%
  22. Aaron Rodgers - 6.9%
  23. Lamar Jackson - 7.9%
  24. Marcus Mariota - 7.9%
  25. Russell Wilson - 8.4%
  26. Teddy Bridgewater - 8.7%
  27. Jacoby Brissett - 8.8%
  28. Deshaun Watson - 10.6%

There's lots of things you can come up with to ***** about with regards to Matt Ryan but him taking too many sacks makes you look pretty foolish, especially since the QBs with the worst sack rates on this list are also the most mobile guys. Being mobile doesn't guarantee a guy won't take untimely sacks. One of the areas where Matt Ryan has excelled in his career is not taking sacks because he does get rid of the ball.

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5 hours ago, Jerz #Quinning said:

Why? Because of his stats?

QB sacks on 3rd down with the game in hand don't show up in passing stats. QB sacks squandering your last possession to score doesn't show up in passing stats.

Try upgrading your argument from just regurgitating Matt's passing stats. They only tell half of the story.

#StatRyan

Lol

I forgot cherry picking some failures must prove your regurgitated argument as true. Neat trick. :rolleyes:

3rd down QB gets sacked. Okay. Something that happens to all QBs.

Oh...I forgot where you proved Matt was egregiously bad at this other than your claims.

:tiphat:

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6 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Career Sack Percentage

  1. Drew Brees - 3.9%
  2. Patrick Mahomes - 3.9%
  3. Tom Brady - 4.8%
  4. Eli Manning - 4.8%
  5. Derek Carr - 4.9%
  6. Matt Ryan - 4.9%
  7. Kirk Cousins - 5.2%
  8. Nick Foles - 5.3%
  9. Case Keenum - 5.4%
  10. Joe Flacco - 5.6%
  11. Baker Mayfield - 5.6%
  12. Philip Rivers - 5.6%
  13. Matthew Stafford - 5.7%
  14. Jared Goff - 5.9%
  15. Carson Wentz - 5.9%
  16. Andy Dalton - 6.0%
  17. Jameis Winston - 6.1%
  18. Jimmy Garoppolo - 6.5%
  19. Ben Roethlisberger - 6.5%
  20. Dak Prescott - 6.8%
  21. Mitchell Trubisky - 6.8%
  22. Aaron Rodgers - 6.9%
  23. Lamar Jackson - 7.9%
  24. Marcus Mariota - 7.9%
  25. Russell Wilson - 8.4%
  26. Teddy Bridgewater - 8.7%
  27. Jacoby Brissett - 8.8%
  28. Deshaun Watson - 10.6%

There's lots of things you can come up with to ***** about with regards to Matt Ryan but him taking too many sacks makes you look pretty foolish, especially since the QBs with the worst sack rates on this list are also the most mobile guys. Being mobile doesn't guarantee a guy won't take untimely sacks. One of the areas where Matt Ryan has excelled in his career is not taking sacks because he does get rid of the ball.

HAH!

My stats...which I won’t provide because I can’t back up...show Matt Ryan’s percentage of sacks taken are most often with game on the line. He isn’t clutch. He just folds!

In fact, Matt Ryan makes his OL look bad!!

Just like he made Freeman look bad in SB51 on the sack fumble play!!

/purple

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We had such a bad schedule without a run game last year and nearly set or did set records for 3rd down conversion % when it was a 3rd and long scenario.

So...the sack scenario and the statue is pushing for league records while the D, OL and run game are no where to be found.

Regarding failing to win the game with a chance to late:

Matt Ryan is around 9 according to this guy from football outsiders.

Thats less than once a year does Matt come up short in a comeback attempt.

Now, compare that to 28 4th QC and 37 GWD...

So, 1 time he fails for every 3 successful...having to come back from behind in the 4th Q Ryan has helped orchestrate wins with game on the line.

Not bad for a statue.

Brees by comparison fails once for every 2 successful comebacks.

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On 9/30/2019 at 1:35 PM, Jerz #Quinning said:

Because they always try to do TOO much. They trust in their athletic ability to the point where they constantly dance behind the line of scrimmage. 

These 2 guys were brought up an ample amount of times in this thread when I didn't mention them once. Swear TATF has a reading comprehension problem.

no its Matt Ryan is the greatest of all time thats the problem. Ryan is part of the overall problem with this team

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On 9/30/2019 at 10:35 AM, UnrealfalcoN said:

We just grabbed 4 new lineman to take wes Schweitzer off the field and we just sustained enough injuries to have that clown pop up at Center and Ty Sombraillo playing guard...

That line would have even Cam Newton changing into his overalls and head scarfs by the third quarter 

Aint no kinda party like a Dimi Oline party. Ever since he had to replace the Olinemen he inherited from Reeves and McKay. Seven years ago. His current Oline is probably top five highest paid and steadily getting handled. Even his best two OLinemen. Texans up next. Buddy is not the roster builder yall told me he was. Trust me.

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On 9/30/2019 at 9:23 PM, Jerz #Quinning said:

The difference between a sustained 10 play drive and a 3 and out often times can be chalked up to one play.

When you have a QB that has no elusiveness and isn’t the slightest bit of nimble you squander many opportunities against any kind of pressure to keep your defense off the field.

No OL in this league perfectly pass blocks for 5+ seconds allowing their QB to scan the field and deliver a pass from a clean pocket on every play. Sometimes your QB has to make something shake for themselves to spring an offense with a new set of downs. Help your OL out for once.

Here you have a QB thats not the most athletic but he has quick and nimble feet giving passrushers a tough time to bring him down. Without Minshews heroics on this one singular play there’s a good chance the Jags lose this game.

Another crucial 3rd down where an elusive QB saves day to continue the drive. Instead this is what we have on crucial downs to save the day.

In no way am I trying to say Minshew is a better QB than Ryan. These are just the examples of playmaking ability that Ryan truly lacks with the kind of weapons any QB would dream of. Could you imagine Ryan being able to avoid pressure and buy time behind the line of scrimmage to hit one of our playmaking receivers down field for a huge play?

Tom Brady /thread 

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On 10/1/2019 at 4:37 AM, JDaveG said:

You surely cannot win in the NFL today without a mobile QB.  That's why the last 5 Super Bowl winning QBs were *squints* Tom Brady, Nick Foles, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady

 

:huh:

Yep that’s absolutely horse manure,I’m with you Dave.

Russell Wilson’s probably thee only mobile QB that’s won the big game all the rest for the most part have come up short.

This whole Ryan thing is what it is.If your an OC you design the game plan on what the QB is good at.Ryans strengths are getting it out quick setting up his long ball off of a strong run game or a short passing game to open up down field.What you don’t do is let ego get in the way and continue to pound your head on the wall waiting for a perfect storm type of deal and that’s what it looks like with DK MM and co.

These class clowns are intent on enforcing there wills on the other team who are taking there game plans and are shoving it back down our throats.

Another example pounding Free between the Gs when his successful part of his career has been out wide in space with a 2 way go or getting him matched up on LBers.

This **** show we are watching now is all on our coaching staff.They can’t seem to be able to get this group to perform that’s it nothing else.

The Ryan conversation is purely a sidebar to what’s going on behind the scenes.

 

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4 minutes ago, Jerz #Quinning said:

Tom Brady has some of the best pocket presence I have seen. 

You think pocket presence = mobility and you show your *** everytime you try to make that connection.

Ryan had plenty of pocket presence in 2016. Give him a legit intact OL that doesn’t change every year and an OC that stay longer than 2 years and he will have plenty of pocket presence. 

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3 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Being mobile doesn't guarantee a guy won't take untimely sacks. 

No it doesn’t gurantee anything. But when you are neither mobile nor have good pocket presence the blitz will always get to you easily like it does Ryan.

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