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Why Matt Ryan takes so many sacks


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4 minutes ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol/2017

Very similar grading regardless of what website or metric you're using.  

My point is, if we're gonna talk about any of this **** as fan, you have to use some form of analytics or else you're just calling it by your gut and at that point we're basically just talking about our feelings.

There are valuable forms of metrics and grading, you just gotta sort through the bs.

The ranking is purely based on sack rate%. Period. I hope I don't have to spell it out to you how this does no favor to your argument, but something tells me I'll have to. 

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There’s no one open. The pressure wasn’t even the worst I’ve seen it this season. He had multiple snaps yesterday where he has time to get through all 5 reads, and you could see his head moving f

Bro do you know how rare it is for a QB to get through all five reads? If a QB has time to get  through all five reads and no one is open, then no one is getting open.

The problem is the offense under Koetter is designed for long developing plays that this OL cannot block for. Need to go back to the quick passing game from years prior 

5 minutes ago, Jerz #Quinning said:

Every OL will look terrible when you have a statue like Ryan that goes down easily.

I'm sitting right now listening to Cowherd talking about how Russell Wilson has influenced the NFL like Stephen Curry did the NBA.  He said something I noticed, that the general managers are now looking for mobile quarterbacks who can throw.  He was talking about how they go to these 7 on 7 camps and have quarterback gurus now starting in elementary school and that they are more finished products now by the time they get to the NFL.  Combine that with the fact that coordinators like Andy Reid are running college concepts now in the NFL because of it, the quarterbacks that just stand in the pocket are not a premium anymore.  Jacob Eason is the only immobile quarterback he mentioned of about 7 quarterbacks he say is coming out the next couple of years that will most likely be first round picks.  Even Jake Fromm can move SOMEWHAT, even though thats not his game...

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1 minute ago, Dr Long Shot said:

The ranking is purely based on sack rate%. Period. I hope I don't have to spell it out to you how this does no favor to your argument, but something tells me I'll have to. 

Because even adjusted sack rate doesn't take into account the amount of busted assignments that offensive lines have or the amount of pressures given up therefore it's not necessarily the best metric for determining how good an offensive line is at pass blocking.

That's the metric that FO uses, but IIRC, PFF uses a different metric? Am I right or wrong on that? Asking honestly, not trying to start ****

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Play calling and concepts completely negate any perceived "mobile QB" requirement . There are OC's who know how to work against defense tendencies and then when they adjust, counter the changes. 

Anyone even joking that Matt Ryan is the reason we are losing football games, is proving they watch football but they don't understand it.

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7 minutes ago, Dr Long Shot said:

The ranking is purely based on sack rate%. Period. I hope I don't have to spell it out to you how this does no favor to your argument, but something tells me I'll have to. 

Okay yeah I was right, PFF does use a different methodology for pass grades, their methodology being here: https://www.pff.com/news/pro-how-pff-grades-pass-protection

And who are the people that say PFF's OL grades are the worst and why? I know Vel and KoG had mixed reviews about some of their grading methods, but I'm not sure if that was pertaining to OL in particular.

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2 minutes ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

Because even adjusted sack rate doesn't take into account the amount of busted assignments that offensive lines have or the amount of pressures given up therefore it's not necessarily the best metric for determining how good an offensive line is at pass blocking.

That's the metric that FO uses, but IIRC, PFF uses a different metric? Am I right or wrong on that? Asking honestly, not trying to start ****

The adjusted sack rate doesn't take into account the QBs ability to avoid sacks. If a QB is good at avoiding sacks the sack rate will drop, and the o-line will be graded better. So if the argument is that Ryan can't avoid sacks because the line has a good sack rate, that makes no sense. This doesn't grade the lines play but the end results adjusted (arbitrarily) by weighing sacks in certain situations and opponents. How often has Matt gotten pressured or hit throughout his career compared to other QBs?  How often does Matt have a clean pocket to step into? Non of this is taken into account. 

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1 minute ago, runshoot said:

Play calling and concepts completely negate any perceived "mobile QB" requirement . There are OC's who know how to work against defense tendencies and then when they adjust, counter the changes. 

Anyone even joking that Matt Ryan is the reason we are losing football games, is proving they watch football but they don't understand it.

Love Ryan but he's made some boneheaded decisions this year that have nothing to do with playcalling. 

He ain't THE reason, but he's one of the reasons.

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1 minute ago, slickgadawg said:

I'm sitting right now listening to Cowherd talking about how Russell Wilson has influenced the NFL like Stephen Curry did the NBA.  He said something I noticed, that the general managers are now looking for mobile quarterbacks who can throw.  He was talking about how they go to these 7 on 7 camps and have quarterback gurus now starting in elementary school and that they are more finished products now by the time they get to the NFL.  Combine that with the fact that coordinators like Andy Reid are running college concepts now in the NFL because of it, the quarterbacks that just stand in the pocket are not a premium anymore.  Jacob Eason is the only immobile quarterback he mentioned of about 7 quarterbacks he say is coming out the next couple of years that will most likely be first round picks.

Crazy how I was about to ask you what he was saying.

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2 minutes ago, runshoot said:

Play calling and concepts completely negate any perceived "mobile QB" requirement . There are OC's who know how to work against defense tendencies and then when they adjust, counter the changes. 

Anyone even joking that Matt Ryan is the reason we are losing football games, is proving they watch football but they don't understand it.

Plus the most successful QBs in the history of the league have been pure pocket passers, there's also that. 

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Just now, Dr Long Shot said:

The adjusted sack rate doesn't take into account the QBs ability to avoid sacks. If a QB is good at avoiding sacks the sack rate will drop, and the o-line will be graded better. So if the argument is that Ryan can't avoid sacks because the line has a good sack rate, that makes no sense. This doesn't grade the lines play but the end results adjusted (arbitrarily) by weighing sacks in certain situations and opponents. How often has Matt gotten pressured or hit throughout his career compared to other QBs?  How often does Matt have a clean pocket to step into? Non of this is taken into account. 

Okay, I understand what you're saying. Let me ask two follow questions, though:

do you think that Ryan is so good at avoiding pressure that he inflates how well our OL is graded? 

And also, what's the issue with PFF's methodology here: https://www.pff.com/news/pro-how-pff-grades-pass-protection?

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2 minutes ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

Okay yeah I was right, PFF does use a different methodology for pass grades, their methodology being here: https://www.pff.com/news/pro-how-pff-grades-pass-protection

And who are the people that say PFF's OL grades are the worst and why? I know Vel and KoG had mixed reviews about some of their grading methods, but I'm not sure if that was pertaining to OL in particular.

It's right there on the first sentence. "It isolates the role of each pass blocker". How does PFF know what the role of each pass blocker is on any given play? The entire methodology is subjective and PFF is forced to constantly make judgment calls on things for which they have no inside knowledge or capacity to judge. Riddle me this, if our line was so satisfactory why did Thomas Dimitroff spend most of our resources in the draft and free agency on the line this year?

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1 minute ago, Dr Long Shot said:

Riddle me this, if our line was so satisfactory why did Thomas Dimitroff spend most of our resources in the draft and free agency on the line this year?

Because Ryan needs the OL to be perfect. Even a satisfactory line gives him too much to handle in crunch time situations.

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42 minutes ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

Our offensive lines from 08-2010 were decent, our 2012 was good, our 2016 OL was top 3 and our 2017/2018 offensive lines were top 10.

Our OLs have always been thrown under the bus to lift up Ryan. Certain years, we legit just had **** offensive lines (2013-2015) but they really aren't as bad as people say they are.

PFF isn't always reliable, but their OL grades are usually pretty good and the Falcons offense consistently ranks in the top 10.

Has anybody heard about Ryan Schraeder's whereabouts these days? MIchael Person? Justin Blalock? Peter Konz? and so on - why does it seem we never lose OL in FA or hear about them on other teams after they leave the Falcons?

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6 minutes ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

Love Ryan but he's made some boneheaded decisions this year that have nothing to do with playcalling. 

He ain't THE reason, but he's one of the reasons.

Ryan is clearly not comfortable with the offense that is being called, and he isn't the only one making mistakes. Koetter has called out the receivers for running the wrong routes. Imagine being a QB and not knowing where your receivers are going to be? Plus having 100% of the preassure to produce on offense because our running game is the worst in the league, and the defense will give up a TD on virtually every drive in the first half. It's tough to judge a QB when the entire team is a dumpster fire. 

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1 hour ago, Dr Long Shot said:

Ryan is clearly not comfortable with the offense that is being called, and he isn't the only one making mistakes. Koetter has called out the receivers for running the wrong routes. Imagine being a QB and not knowing where your receivers are going to be? Plus having 100% of the preassure to produce on offense because our running game is the worst in the league, and the defense will give up a TD on virtually every drive in the first half. It's tough to judge a QB when the entire team is a dumpster fire. 

When QB is expecting a WR to run different route and throws the ball, he is gonna look stupid. I am looking at you Stocker..

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3 minutes ago, Dr Long Shot said:

It's right there on the first sentence. "It isolates the role of each pass blocker". How does PFF know what the role of each pass blocker is on any given play? The entire methodology is subjective and PFF is forced to constantly make judgment calls on things for which they have no inside knowledge or capacity to judge. Riddle me this, if our line was so satisfactory why did Thomas Dimitroff spend most of our resources in the draft and free agency on the line this year?

In a thread the other day, they were talking about the judgement call plays and how PFF just kind of throws them out. Meaning, if the person responsible for the grading of a player can't find out what assignment a particular player had, the play doesn't receive a grade at all. Which can either be a good or a bad thing for the player grade, but ultimately I guess it makes the grading less reliable.

My point wasn't that our OL was good, but that they're not as bad as the board would suggest. What do you think the best metric is, besides manually dissecting every piece of film?

Oh, and as for the riddle: Young offensive linemen are always a good investment in the NFL. They're cheap and have a lot more potential than free agents.

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12 minutes ago, jlrfalcon said:

Has anybody heard about Ryan Schraeder's whereabouts these days? MIchael Person? Justin Blalock? Peter Konz? and so on - why does it seem we never lose OL in FA or hear about them on other teams after they leave the Falcons?

We retain the best ones, and use budget free agents to fill in the gaps most years. And by the time we let them go, they're old and out of gas.

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35 minutes ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

Todd McClure, c'mon man! Most underrated of all-time

 

So Ryan has had 2 "best" centers maybe - but pull up all the starting OL's and the guy has never had a starting lineup like Brady or Brees always have (and whoever is QB for the Cowboys at any time) except maybe the piecemeal that stayed injury-free in 2016-17.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/atl/lineups.htm

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1 hour ago, ChickenBiscuit said:

In a thread the other day, they were talking about the judgement call plays and how PFF just kind of throws them out. Meaning, if the person responsible for the grading of a player can't find out what assignment a particular player had, the play doesn't receive a grade at all. Which can either be a good or a bad thing for the player grade, but ultimately I guess it makes the grading less reliable.

My point wasn't that our OL was good, but that they're not as bad as the board would suggest. What do you think the best metric is, besides manually dissecting every piece of film?

Oh, and as for the riddle: Young offensive linemen are always a good investment in the NFL. They're cheap and have a lot more potential than free agents.

And how are Ryan Schrader and Ben Garland doing so far this year? The fact our entire right side of the line wasn't NFL starting caliber (or NFL caliber period) had nothing to do with the decision, right? 

 

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