ryantlanta

Not going to lie Sark was better than Koetter

239 posts in this topic

7 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

 

Matt tends to have interception issues when the team around him isn't good -- and his first year in a new offense.  Dirk was his OC for three seasons first time around and we only had one winning season and the roster was falling apart around him.  Then let's not forget the boneheaded interceptions his first year under Kyle.  He didn't look like he knew how to read a defense at times.

Look at the far right column to the interception % it's pretty stark.

Screen Shot 2019-09-23 at 7.53.04 PM

 

Good news is overall Matt still is in the 2:1 TD/Int ratio. But, what troubles me is essentially we had very little running game last year under Sark, yet Matt had a great season. Truthfully, a MVP type season. I chalk up the first year under Kyle to being a completely new system. 

What is the big difference this year? Why is the running game so important and Matt struggling with a system that he already played under, whereas under Sark he had a great season in year two but had a horrid running game? 

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29 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

You can tell when a QB throws a pick off a choice route and he's not on the same page with the receiver.  

Receiver goes in, quarterback throws an out -- that sort of thing.  I can't recall seeing that so far.

The one I was thinking of in particular was the throw to Stocker where it looked like Stocker sat down on the route before the goal line and Matt was throwing it toward the endzone. But I could be misremembering how it went down. Defender had to jump for the INT as I recall. 

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39 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

 

Matt tends to have interception issues when the team around him isn't good -- and his first year in a new offense.  Dirk was his OC for three seasons first time around and we only had one winning season and the roster was falling apart around him.  Then let's not forget the boneheaded interceptions his first year under Kyle.  He didn't look like he knew how to read a defense at times.

Look at the far right column to the interception % it's pretty stark.

Screen Shot 2019-09-23 at 7.53.04 PM

 

Know what part of the problem is??

He has so been so freaking good that we as a franchise have been utterly spoiled

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2 hours ago, MSalmon said:

Beat me to it. 

 

And, again, beyond what 2020 stated, multiple QBs. ( I listed already) have tendencies to throw lots of INTs in any Coryell-based system. It’s a fact, it’s a high risk/high reward system 

If directed to me, I agree there are obviously different variations of all systems. Whether Ekhardt-Perkins, WCO, Coryell or whatever, but bottom line Koetter does favor mid to long range passes with long routes that can gain big yardage, but is very high risk in terms of routes and play selection. The basis of his philosophy, per himself, is to attack vertically and use mid to long range routes. Bottom line. Does he have short route trees? Sure. Just like even the purest of WCO would Air it out. But it’s nit a high percentage system, and the risk is accepted in lieu of explosive plays and putting the defense on its heels

And just about every QB from Fouts to Warner to Bulger to Ryan has had high interceptions numbers that tend to look boneheaded because of one glitch in route or whatever.  

One reason I dislike Koetter is the lack of commitment to the run, so much for the concept of power run game and being more physical, huh?

@Knight of God, I know you’re a Koetter fan lol 

anything to add?

 

I still hate the way he calls plays

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23 hours ago, MSalmon said:

How familiar are you with the Air Coryell based vert system that Koetter runs? If yiu are, you’d know that almost all of the QBs in this system experience a higher INT rate. Look at Fouts, Marc burger, Kurt Warner and others for proof. In one of Warner’s MVP seasons he threw 22 INtS. He had high TD totals and high INtS. Ditto for Matt under Koetter. He averaged one or so Int. 

 

I disagree Matt interception rate is up because he's making bad decisions. Luke Stocker doesn't get separation and Matt thinks he's Tony G. You can't determine anything in 3 games.

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12 hours ago, Ovie_Lover said:

28% is higher than any other coach.

Yes, the ratio should be equal for each of his OC’s if we are measuring Ryan’s INT rate for each.  All things being equal, Ryan should have 28% of his INT’s under Koetter, not 41%.  Maybe add another 2% due to pass volume under Koetter.  So 31-32% would be normal.  41% is an outlier

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9 hours ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

Dude Ryan can play in any system. It doesn’t matter. He’s smart. He can evolve. And he can change. He’s gotten more OC’s promoted to HC than Brady or Peyton. The system really isn’t the issue man. I think it’s just transitioning and building some chemistry. Guys gotta get in the zone. It’s still September. Am I mad at Ryan? Yes. Am I worried about him? Nah

He can play in any system, but what system gives us the best Matt Ryan.

For my money it’s the Shanny system.  Under center using hard PA to attack deep vertically while also using the RB/TE to stretch the defense horizontally...all that is only possible with clever misdirection and a strong running game.  Without the run game your QB will get killed

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1 hour ago, samuel said:

I disagree Matt interception rate is up because he's making bad decisions. Luke Stocker doesn't get separation and Matt thinks he's Tony G. You can't determine anything in 3 games.

Say what?

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4 hours ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Yes, the ratio should be equal for each of his OC’s if we are measuring Ryan’s INT rate for each.  All things being equal, Ryan should have 28% of his INT’s under Koetter, not 41%.  Maybe add another 2% due to pass volume under Koetter.  So 31-32% would be normal.  41% is an outlier

Lol ok man

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4 hours ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

He can play in any system, but what system gives us the best Matt Ryan.

For my money it’s the Shanny system.  Under center using hard PA to attack deep vertically while also using the RB/TE to stretch the defense horizontally...all that is only possible with clever misdirection and a strong running game.  Without the run game your QB will get killed

Good post

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On 9/22/2019 at 4:10 PM, JD dirtybird21 said:

Koetter isn’t the issue. Ryan and penalties are

To me its simple. And I knew it was gonna be an issue when I first heard it. Even tho the offense is still the same for the most part DK still brought in his own stuff. Instead of yardage based routes DK installed steps based routes. I can guarantee that’s got Matt off a tad bit. And the system usually calls for throwing to a spot rather than a guy. If that guy isn’t where he’s supposed to be it can lead to an int. I’ve seen the miscommunication in just the incomplete passes. I know it’ll get worked out but these tiny minute changes have huge affects on performance. 

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1 minute ago, TheFatboi said:

To me its simple. And I knew it was gonna be an issue when I first heard it. Even tho the offense is still the same for the most part DK still brought in his own stuff. Instead of yardage based routes DK installed steps based routes. I can guarantee that’s got Matt off a tad bit. And the system usually calls for throwing to a spot rather than a guy. If that guy isn’t where he’s supposed to be it can lead to an int. I’ve seen the miscommunication in just the incomplete passes. I know it’ll get worked out but these tiny minute changes have huge affects on performance. 

The result? Everyone gives up on the season and wants Quinn fired 

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5 hours ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

He can play in any system, but what system gives us the best Matt Ryan.

For my money it’s the Shanny system.  Under center using hard PA to attack deep vertically while also using the RB/TE to stretch the defense horizontally...all that is only possible with clever misdirection and a strong running game.  Without the run game your QB will get killed

1. The run game looked fine last week and it’ll be fine

2. I don’t disagree about Shanahan. But it’s kinda pointless to have this conversation because he’s not here and he’s never coming back. 

3. The team CAN win with Koetter. Penalties and Ryan’s mistakes need to (and will) improve 

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5 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

The result? Everyone gives up on the season and wants Quinn fired 

Absolutely. The casual fan doesn’t not realize all these coaching changes brings different things. Nuances etc...Even Quinn taking over as DC is a change. They have to do it HIS way and he’s also tweaked his own system. If anybody out there thinks these coaching changes don’t effect play they’re sorely mistaken. There’s gonna be bugs just like updating your OS on your computer but eventually the bugs get worked out. The pitchforks shouldn’t be out on quinn after just 3 games knowing we’ve had coaching changes. It took Matt 2 seasons with Kyle to become a killer. 2 with sark. This is year 1 part 2 with DK. There’s gonna be hiccups. Same with the defense. 

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13 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

To me its simple. And I knew it was gonna be an issue when I first heard it. Even tho the offense is still the same for the most part DK still brought in his own stuff. Instead of yardage based routes DK installed steps based routes. I can guarantee that’s got Matt off a tad bit. And the system usually calls for throwing to a spot rather than a guy. If that guy isn’t where he’s supposed to be it can lead to an int. I’ve seen the miscommunication in just the incomplete passes. I know it’ll get worked out but these tiny minute changes have huge affects on performance. 

Why was making that change even necessary if the system is being retained?

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4 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Absolutely. The casual fan doesn’t not realize all these coaching changes brings different things. Nuances etc...Even Quinn taking over as DC is a change. They have to do it HIS way and he’s also tweaked his own system. If anybody out there thinks these coaching changes don’t effect play they’re sorely mistaken. There’s gonna be bugs just like updating your OS on your computer but eventually the bugs get worked out. The pitchforks shouldn’t be out on quinn after just 3 games knowing we’ve had coaching changes. It took Matt 2 seasons with Kyle to become a killer. 2 with sark. This is year 1 part 2 with DK. There’s gonna be hiccups. Same with the defense. 

The only thing I really don't like so far is the penalties. That is driving me crazy. 

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20 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

To me its simple. And I knew it was gonna be an issue when I first heard it. Even tho the offense is still the same for the most part DK still brought in his own stuff. Instead of yardage based routes DK installed steps based routes. I can guarantee that’s got Matt off a tad bit. And the system usually calls for throwing to a spot rather than a guy. If that guy isn’t where he’s supposed to be it can lead to an int. I’ve seen the miscommunication in just the incomplete passes. I know it’ll get worked out but these tiny minute changes have huge affects on performance. 

Good point.  I completely forgot about that transition.  
 

But most of Ryan’s INT’s are simply poor throws or bad reads into bracket coverage.  Things you iron out in film room with the coaches.  It just hasn’t been

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19 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

1. The run game looked fine last week and it’ll be fine

2. I don’t disagree about Shanahan. But it’s kinda pointless to have this conversation because he’s not here and he’s never coming back. 

3. The team CAN win with Koetter. Penalties and Ryan’s mistakes need to (and will) improve 

If we end up in the playoffs, it will be because the D played up to par and we ran the football effectively.  If we can run, PA becomes lethal with Ryan, Julio, Hooper, Sanu & Ridley.  Then the defense will be kept off balance and we can  play the game on our terms

 

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10 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

The only thing I really don't like so far is the penalties. That is driving me crazy. 

No doubt. Even the penalties can come from thinking too much and/or panicking because you missed an assignment. The more confident you are in your assignment the less penalties you commit. 

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Just now, FalconsIn2020 said:

If we end up in the playoffs, it will be because the D played up to par and we ran the football effectively.  If we can run, PA becomes lethal with Ryan, Julio, Hooper, Sanu & Ridley.  Then the defense will be kept off balance and we can  play the game on our terms

 

I think the offense will get to that point no matter the result of the season. We are likely winning 8 games minimum this season based on the offenses ability alone. Penalties have gotta stop

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2 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

No doubt. Even the penalties can come from thinking too much and/or panicking because you missed an assignment. The more confident you are in your assignment the less penalties you commit. 

Great point

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