ryantlanta

Not going to lie Sark was better than Koetter

239 posts in this topic

7 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Good point.  I completely forgot about that transition.  
 

But most of Ryan’s INT’s are simply poor throws or bad reads into bracket coverage.  Things you iron out in film room with the coaches.  It just hasn’t been

Matt used to throw to a spot with 3 guys in the vicinity with Kyle but it was usually a catch because they wr was always in the right spot. It’s like year one with Kyle and the wr’s weren’t in the right spot. Lead to picks. In the wco you may have tk make a blind throw but it doesn’t matter if you know the wr is gonna be where he’s supposed to be. Bracket coverage doesn’t mean anything when the wr is in the right spot because if Matt puts it on the spot and the wr is there there’s absolutely nothing the defense can do. That’s the whole point of throwing to spots. Of Matt’s 6 picks I’d put 3 on him and the other 3 miscommunication between where the wr should be and Matt throwing to a spot. 

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4 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Matt used to throw to a spot with 3 guys in the vicinity with Kyle but it was usually a catch because they wr was always in the right spot. It’s like year one with Kyle and the wr’s weren’t in the right spot. Lead to picks. In the wco you may have tk make a blind throw but it doesn’t matter if you know the wr is gonna be where he’s supposed to be. Bracket coverage doesn’t mean anything when the wr is in the right spot because if Matt puts it on the spot and the wr is there there’s absolutely nothing the defense can do. That’s the whole point of throwing to spots. Of Matt’s 6 picks I’d put 3 on him and the other 3 miscommunication between where the wr should be and Matt throwing to a spot. 

Well at least he's still throwing to spots, which is classic WCO. That's encouraging. I did like some of the play designs, like the first TD to Hooper. Don't recall seeing that before, at least not that variation.

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51 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Matt used to throw to a spot with 3 guys in the vicinity with Kyle but it was usually a catch because they wr was always in the right spot. It’s like year one with Kyle and the wr’s weren’t in the right spot. Lead to picks. In the wco you may have tk make a blind throw but it doesn’t matter if you know the wr is gonna be where he’s supposed to be. Bracket coverage doesn’t mean anything when the wr is in the right spot because if Matt puts it on the spot and the wr is there there’s absolutely nothing the defense can do. That’s the whole point of throwing to spots. Of Matt’s 6 picks I’d put 3 on him and the other 3 miscommunication between where the wr should be and Matt throwing to a spot. 

In 2015, in my observation that was all on Matt.  He was slow to go through his reads, and then when he saw the receiver break open he'd throw it then.

By that point, it's too late.  In the WCO, you have to throw before the break for most routes.  If you wait until you see daylight, what you don't see is the other defender coming over to help already.  He hyper focused on the receiver when he should have been reading leverage and space.  Obviously, he's gotten a lot better at that, this year's early issues notwithstanding.

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5 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

In 2015, in my observation that was all on Matt.  He was slow to go through his reads, and then when he saw the receiver break open he'd throw it then.

By that point, it's too late.  In the WCO, you have to throw before the break for most routes.  If you wait until you see daylight, what you don't see is the other defender coming over to help already.  He hyper focused on the receiver when he should have been reading leverage and space.  Obviously, he's gotten a lot better at that, this year's early issues notwithstanding.

Absolutely. It was all in the timing of the routes to his footwork. Roddy wasn’t where he was supposed to be too. So it was a combination of both. When rod isn’t there and Matt throws a pick now he’s not trusting the system and now he’s watching the wr. 2016 all that was fixed and he was letting it fly. Now this step based route thing with DK has them a tad off again. 

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6 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

In 2015, in my observation that was all on Matt.  He was slow to go through his reads, and then when he saw the receiver break open he'd throw it then.

By that point, it's too late.  In the WCO, you have to throw before the break for most routes.  If you wait until you see daylight, what you don't see is the other defender coming over to help already.  He hyper focused on the receiver when he should have been reading leverage and space.  Obviously, he's gotten a lot better at that, this year's early issues notwithstanding.

I'm wondering how those nuances would work with steps-based routes.

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56 minutes ago, No.11 said:

I'm wondering how those nuances would work with steps-based routes.

In the WCO, the routes are synched up with the drop of the QB so that the ball comes out quicker.  3-step drops you get slants, quick outs, etc.  5 and 7 step drops are synched up with deeper routes.  The quarterback's back foot hitting should coincide with the receiver making his break.  Any hesitation by the QB, holding the ball, or not letting it go in rhythm throws everything off.  That's where you'll get those ugly misses, or throwing behind a guy.

I think that may be what a @TheFatboi is driving at.  I'll let him expound, but the Air Coryell is timing based, too.  The footwork isn't quite as married but Norv Turner used to have Aikman letting that ball go to Irvin back in the day way before he even started his break.  They used to talk about how they were so in-synch they could connect on those routes blindfolded. 

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1 minute ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

In the WCO, the routes are synched up with the drop of the QB so that the ball comes out quicker.  3-step drops you get slants, quick outs, etc.  5 and 7 step drops are synched up with deeper routes.  The quarterback's back foot hitting should coincide with the receiver making his break.  Any hesitation by the QB, holding the ball, or not letting it go in rhythm throws everything off.  That's where you'll get those ugly misses, or throwing behind a guy.

I think that may be what a @TheFatboi is driving at.  I'll let him expound, but the Air Coryell is timing based, too.  The footwork isn't quite as married but Norv Turner used to have Aikman letting that ball go to Irvin back in the day way before he even started his break.  They used to talk about how they were so in-synch they could connect on those routes blindfolded. 

Yea that’s exactly what I was getting at. 

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2 hours ago, No.11 said:

Well at least he's still throwing to spots, which is classic WCO. That's encouraging. I did like some of the play designs, like the first TD to Hooper. Don't recall seeing that before, at least not that variation.

Yes he still is. The offense is still a Kyle wco variation with some DK wrinkles sprinkled in. The steps route vs the yardage route is the difference imo. For 4 seasons Matt and his wr’s were yardage route and they were perfectly timed to Matt’s footwork in his drops. With steps I’m sure it’s got some timing issues. As we can clearly see. They’ll make the timing adjustment over the course of the season but that one little thing is a HUGE thing for this finely tuned offense. Before sark I always felt lafluer should have that shot. He was the guy in Matt’s ear after all. 

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1 hour ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

In the WCO, the routes are synched up with the drop of the QB so that the ball comes out quicker.  3-step drops you get slants, quick outs, etc.  5 and 7 step drops are synched up with deeper routes.  The quarterback's back foot hitting should coincide with the receiver making his break.  Any hesitation by the QB, holding the ball, or not letting it go in rhythm throws everything off.  That's where you'll get those ugly misses, or throwing behind a guy.

I think that may be what a @TheFatboi is driving at.  I'll let him expound, but the Air Coryell is timing based, too.  The footwork isn't quite as married but Norv Turner used to have Aikman letting that ball go to Irvin back in the day way before he even started his break.  They used to talk about how they were so in-synch they could connect on those routes blindfolded. 

 

1 hour ago, TheFatboi said:

Yea that’s exactly what I was getting at. 

 

53 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Yes he still is. The offense is still a Kyle wco variation with some DK wrinkles sprinkled in. The steps route vs the yardage route is the difference imo. For 4 seasons Matt and his wr’s were yardage route and they were perfectly timed to Matt’s footwork in his drops. With steps I’m sure it’s got some timing issues. As we can clearly see. They’ll make the timing adjustment over the course of the season but that one little thing is a HUGE thing for this finely tuned offense. Before sark I always felt lafluer should have that shot. He was the guy in Matt’s ear after all. 

Thanks for the breakdown guys. I feel a little bit better about the offense going forward now, but I agree that LaFleur should have been given an opportunity to call the offense in Atlanta, or Mike McDaniel for that matter. I think LaFleur receiving a head coaching position in Green Bay is vindication for that viewpoint, but it's water under the bridge at this point.

One interesting detail that I saw in the chart PMF posted--look at Ryan's TD% for this season.

48785264311_863124b7e4_b.jpg

 

Right now it's the second highest (6.5%) it's been since his MVP season (7.1%) and it would be even higher if it wasn't for his redzone turnovers. His YPA could stand to be higher (sitting at a relatively pedestrian 7 yards even) and obviously he needs to cut down on the interceptions.

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1 hour ago, TheFatboi said:

Yes he still is. The offense is still a Kyle wco variation with some DK wrinkles sprinkled in. The steps route vs the yardage route is the difference imo. For 4 seasons Matt and his wr’s were yardage route and they were perfectly timed to Matt’s footwork in his drops. With steps I’m sure it’s got some timing issues. As we can clearly see. They’ll make the timing adjustment over the course of the season but that one little thing is a HUGE thing for this finely tuned offense. Before sark I always felt lafluer should have that shot. He was the guy in Matt’s ear after all. 

30 years from now falcon fans gonna be calling for kyle shanahan or his offense...:(  I wonder if ram fans are still calling for mike martz and the " greatest show on turf" 20 something years later...  people need to let it go.  Everything is compared to Kyle.  Kyle dumped on falcon fans in the superbowl but he is still worshipped here...

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Edited by slickgadawg

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On 9/22/2019 at 1:05 PM, ryantlanta said:

Why did we get rid of Sark dude was hitting his stride ryan had his second best year under the dude...

I’m telling you Sark hit is stride and we canned his a** dumb decision why hire someone we already fired in DK dude sucked in Tampa and now stinking it up here. 

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When DQ was hired, he had the option to hire Koetter.  He didn't have any OC "friends" to bring along automatically.  He wasn't even close to Shanahan like that, he just reached out to him.  He could have easily kept Koetter in for the familiarity to Ryan over the reason he hired shanahan, which was because of his scheme.  Well now, we settled and hired Koetter again NOW because of his familiarity to Matt Ryan.  

TBH, we should have kept Sark.  He was slowly getting into his groove and at least he kept the same scheme.  Ryan is starting to get too old and weak arm to be changing schemes repeatedly now.  I feel Shanahans scheme is best for the current version of Matt Ryan.  

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