jdawg4876

thoughts on dirk and the offense as a whole

112 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, vel said:

Lol all of this is so bad.

Run the ball when it was getting stopped consistently. To the tune of 3-5 yard losses. Getting behind the chains is not smart versus the Eagles. 

Route concepts are basic and long? Yet... Matt threw for 7 ypa and several passes short of the sticks to supplement for the lack of running game. Our issues the first time he was here was trotting out an NFL OL comprised of the likes of Sam Baker, Lamar Holmes, Peter Konz, and Jeremy Trueblood, to name a few. In 2012, yall had no complaints. 

We had no running game. Outside of Ito's 28 yard run, they averaged 1.8 yards per carry. If we were getting 4 yards per carry, by all means keep running it. But when you are picking up chunk yards at the clip the Falcons were, why waste a down on a potential 2 yard gain and most likely a loss of yardage? 

Matt audibling to the screen is a slight on Dirk? Lol ignore the TE screens and middle screen to Freeman right? Ignore Koetter giving Matt the built in check to the double screens, which yall bltched about the thought of screens coming back to Atlanta the moment Koetter was hired. 

They had no running game. That's not a scheme issue. That's a Philadelphia defense doesn't allow running games issue. Same with Minnesota. Go check the stats. Those two defenses have consistently been in the top of the league in shutting down rushing attacks for the past few years. Complaining about "the lack of balance" is baseless. Matt throwing bone headed INTs is not on Koetter. The one in the end zone, he had Stocker wide open in his face and chose to throw it elsewhere. That's not on Dirk. Matt missed two TDs to Ridley and Hardy and back to back plays exploiting the Eagles secondary. Matt Bryant missed a FG. Those three plays right there account for 13 points at the least. 17 at most. That's a 37-41 point output. 

Miss me with complaints about Dirk last night. With his starting RG out, his starting RT going down. And for all of the talk of these long developing routes, Matt was only hit 6 times and sacked once. 

At what point does a run game fall on the coordinator?

The line played exceptionally well considering they faced constant blitzing all night with no consistent playcalling to alleviate it.  When we did actually call plays to counter it, they worked (the shovel pass to freeman.  The screen to Ito.  The screen to Julio).  Those plays were far too sparse.  You don’t question the timing of adjustments with other good coordinators.

I’ve already said that Matt played poorly.  However, he played as good as any quarterback can play when the OC abandons the running game before it can ever get a chance to start.  Matt had 27 pass attempts in the first half...that’s not balance.

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7 minutes ago, KRUNKuno said:

At what point does a run game fall on the coordinator?

The line played exceptionally well considering they faced constant blitzing all night with no consistent playcalling to alleviate it.  When we did actually call plays to counter it, they worked (the shovel pass to freeman.  The screen to Ito.  The screen to Julio).  Those plays were far too sparse.  You don’t question the timing of adjustments with other good coordinators.

I’ve already said that Matt played poorly.  However, he played as good as any quarterback can play when the OC abandons the running game before it can ever get a chance to start.  Matt had 27 pass attempts in the first half...that’s not balance.

Not after two games. 

No consistent playcalling to alleviate it? Lol so Matt was just getting knocked around silly? No. You're literally just complaining for the sake of it. They called several screens, RPOs, etc. You are acting like Matt was just lining up and heaving it 50 yards every play. 

You would rather Dirk call 30 runs that gained 2 ypc at best for the sake of calling runs? Make it make sense. 

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2 hours ago, vel said:

Dirk showed why he's better than Sark. He was calling attacking plays. If not for Matt having 3 more brain farts, this is a blow out. That bomb to Julio that Darby picked was wide open. Right play call to attack the weakness. Another red zone turnover took points off the board. The screen (Yep, and yall hate them right?) to win the game was perfect. TE screens, middle screens. They were sending pressure all game and Koetter called it right all night. 

If they don't throw those 3 INTs, you probably see them grind the game out late but it was too close and not enough ground was being covered to afford being behind the chains like that. 

That game winning screen (and all the others) is proof this is Koetter’s offense, not Shanahan’s. The core of the offense is in place, but Kyle doesn’t call that play there. 

Not saying he wouldn’t have called something else that would work, but that play was 100% Andy Reid’s influence on Koetter’s offensive philosophy — when they blitz you, kill them with the screen game. Koetter has always done it and it worked to perfection yesterday. 

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2 minutes ago, vel said:

Not after two games. 

No consistent playcalling to alleviate it? Lol so Matt was just getting knocked around silly? No. You're literally just complaining for the sake of it. They called several screens, RPOs, etc. You are acting like Matt was just lining up and heaving it 50 yards every play. 

You would rather Dirk call 30 runs that gained 2 ypc at best for the sake of calling runs? Make it make sense. 

I’m not complaining but rather pointing out flaws in Koetter’s playcalling.  He literally has a history of this even showed during his first stint with us.  For us to have been up for the majority of the game we did not call plays to keep their defense honest and our defense rested.  Two games in and our run game has shown no life early so we abandon it completely.  You would think we were going to focus heavily on the run game considering we kept 4 runningbacks, but I have yet to see it.  

Vikings game was a train wreck to begin with.  You pass to get out of a whole.  Sure.  I understand that.  

There was no excuse for the Eagles game.

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4 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

That game winning screen (and all the others) is proof this is Koetter’s offense, not Shanahan’s. The core of the offense is in place, but Kyle doesn’t call that play there. 

Not saying he wouldn’t have called something else that would work, but that play was 100% Andy Reid’s influence on Koetter’s offensive philosophy — when they blitz you, kill them with the screen game. Koetter has always done it and it worked to perfection yesterday. 

Exactly. And waited for the perfect moment to get it. They had been running that cover 0 blitz all game. Koetter was just roping Schwartz into more and more aggressive blitzes and struck at the right time. 

That's also the difference between Koetter and Sark. There is no check there with Sark. No set up all game for that moment. 

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1 minute ago, vel said:

Exactly. And waited for the perfect moment to get it. They had been running that cover 0 blitz all game. Koetter was just roping Schwartz into more and more aggressive blitzes and struck at the right time. 

That's also the difference between Koetter and Sark. There is no check there with Sark. No set up all game for that moment. 

They almost torched him for 2 more TDs on blitzes, with 2 attempts on the same series. Those weren’t screens but the idea was the same — throw it where they ain’t. 

The screen there though?

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5 minutes ago, KRUNKuno said:

I’m not complaining but rather pointing out flaws in Koetter’s playcalling.  He literally has a history of this even showed during his first stint with us.  For us to have been up for the majority of the game we did not call plays to keep their defense honest and our defense rested.  Two games in and our run game has shown no life early so we abandon it completely.  You would think we were going to focus heavily on the run game considering we kept 4 runningbacks, but I have yet to see it.  

Vikings game was a train wreck to begin with.  You pass to get out of a whole.  Sure.  I understand that.  

There was no excuse for the Eagles game.

The Eagles have one of the best running defenses. You're just plain ignoring that. Not calling plays to keep them honest? Again, Matt missed two wide open throws for TDs and threw another in the end zone. That's a 14 point swing we're talking about. But you wanted him to run the ball more for balance? No. That's a waste of downs. That's the benefit of having a dominating run defense. The Falcons did the same to the Eagles and you saw Wentz getting abused because of it. 

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8 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

That screen (and all the others) is proof this is Koetter’s offense, not Shanahan’s. The core of the offense is in place, but Kyle doesn’t call that play there. 

Not saying he wouldn’t have called something else that would work, but that play was 100% Andy Reid’s influence on Koetter’s offensive philosophy — when they blitz you, kill them with the screen game. Koetter has always done it and it worked to perfection yesterday. 

Did Dirk coordinate under Andy Reid at some point? Doesn't Andy Reid run a west coast offense and Dirk's is Coryell? 

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Just now, ShadyRef said:

Did Dirk coordinate under Andy Reid at some point? Doesn't Andy Reid run a west coast offense and Dirk's is Coryell? 

That’s right but they coached together early on and are good friends. Different base system but similar offensive philosophy. 

The influence goes the other way too — a lot of Reid’s vertical concepts are influence by Koetter by my observation. 

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I should say — there is commonality there. I don’t know that either of them pulls from the other’s playbook. They definitely share the same views on how to attack a defense though. I don’t think that’s a coincidence. 

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2 hours ago, MD-FalconFan13 said:

I think from what I can see, Dirk excels at scripting drives when the offense stays on schedule. When we get negative plays, that's where we're struggling greatly. 

Take the 1st drive for instance. We were moving the ball very well. I saw some great play calls that really exploited the defense. However when the offense got punched in the mouth for a loss after our 4th consecutive 1st down everything went off the rails. We were unable to regain rhythm that drive and struggled throughout when the Eagles brought pressure. 

My hope is that as we get more experience, the Dirk learns to adapt when the offense is knocked off script. 

All that said, we probably hit 30 if Matt Bryant doesn't miss that kick and Matt takes better care of the ball.

Our biggest need is for our MVP QB to start playing better. He's missed some throws that he made routinely last season including back to back deep balls that could have broken the game open and an absolutely AWFUL endzone INT. We need a better version of Matt in to coming weeks. The Colts, Titans and Texans are gonna be tough outs. Even the Cardinals have looked pretty good with Kyler leading them.

These next 8 games are gonna be tough. All good teams that present varying challenges on both sides of the ball

I almost wonder if Koetter has injected "gunslinger juice" in Matt's Slurpee. Some very unlike Ryan-like aggressiveness being displayed. There is a fine line between aggressiveness and carelessness. 

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9 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

That’s right but they coached together early on and are good friends. Different base system but similar offensive philosophy. 

The influence goes the other way too — a lot of Reid’s vertical concepts are influence by Koetter by my observation. 

Really? Then why are his vertical concepts more creative than Dirk's? I tend to see tyreke hill and their other weapons get open with space often despite defenses knowing to key in on them. I haven't seen those kind of free running space for our guys since Shanahan left. 

7 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

I should say — there is commonality there. I don’t know that either of them pulls from the other’s playbook. They definitely share the same views on how to attack a defense though. I don’t think that’s a coincidence. 

I wish Dirk would pull from his playbook. At least Sean mcvay wasn't afraid to admit it last year. :D

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24 minutes ago, vel said:

The Eagles have one of the best running defenses. You're just plain ignoring that. Not calling plays to keep them honest? Again, Matt missed two wide open throws for TDs and threw another in the end zone. That's a 14 point swing we're talking about. But you wanted him to run the ball more for balance? No. That's a waste of downs. That's the benefit of having a dominating run defense. The Falcons did the same to the Eagles and you saw Wentz getting abused because of it. 

So I guess whenever we face a solid run defense we should just expect to pass 80% of the time from here on out, because obviously our run game cannot go up against such a task. 

We ran the ball 15 times...two of those were attempts by Matt

Ito touched the ball 4 times for 32 yards.  You say most of that was from one long run...well maybe keep feeding him the ball?  Maybe he is able to find better rushing lanes against that awesome run defense.

Devonte had 11 rushes.

We were up for 3 1/2 quarters and only ran the ball 15 times.  That’s a problem.

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If not for some really really terrible throws by Matt, this offense would be humming.  Granted, the run game could use a shot in the arm but I think that will come with time and against teams less equipped to handle the run.

The offense has moved the ball pretty much at will, at least through the air, up until this point.  Get the ground game figured out, get Matt to stop forcing throws, and they are going to be really freaking good.

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Hard to tell how good this team can really be without Ryan playing to his potential. He's been awful tbh...though if anything that's a good sign, since once he gets it together we'll be that much better.

Hate our run game rn though. I know who we were playing, and I know it isn't working, but I'd like this team to exert their will on an opponent eventually.

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1 minute ago, KRUNKuno said:

So I guess whenever we face a solid run defense we should just expect to pass 80% of the time from here on out, because obviously our run game cannot go up against such a task. 

We ran the ball 15 times...two of those were attempts by Matt

Ito touched the ball 4 times for 32 yards.  You say most of that was from one long run...well maybe keep feeding him the ball?  Maybe he is able to find better rushing lanes against that awesome run defense.

Devonte had 11 rushes.

We were up for 3 1/2 quarters and only ran the ball 15 times.  That’s a problem.

Solid? No. They should run the ball. But when you are averaging less than 2 ypc and the opponent's secondary can barely cover your WRs, why spend the snaps on running the ball for the sake of balance? Run the ball late to ice the clock. You are acting like the Eagles run defense is just decent. That's a top tier unit. With an OL that hasn't gelled and lost a guy mid game. 

I'm not saying just throw the ball every snap. I'm saying take advantaged of the weaknesses of your opponent. That was passing the ball. 

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1 hour ago, 215FalconsFanatic said:

The eagles strength of the their defense is right up the middle - DT, MLB, S. Dirk was going away from that. May them run (they dont have the fastest linebackers). Make their CBs tackle (which is a problem the eagles have). Spread them out to get favorable match ups. I think it was a sound game plan. 

The eagle's defense is top 5 in the league. I think barring some miscues and a bad pick by Matt. We actually handled them pretty well. We should of scored about 30 on them which is what we should be doing on anybody.

My issue with this is that we did the same against a Vikings team whose strength is their DEs and speedy LBs also. Vikings DTs are middle of the pack at best and we still chose only stretch runs and toss plays. To think the stretch run was a strategy employed just to offset the Eagles isn't true. It's all Koetter runs.

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Also, a lot of those throws Matt threw were called runs. The TD to Julio was a called run. The slant to Ridley that he took that big shot was a called run. 

Dirk called runs. Matt saw more favorable options in the passing game. 

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DK had some good attacking calls last night. That overthrow to Julio should've been a TD. That overthrow to Hardy should've been a TD. That interception when Ryan was hit on a cover-0 blitz, should've been a 90 yard TD to Julio. Those are all execution errors but if executed properly that's 3 additional TD's. The run game needs a lot of work but the OL didn't really open up any holes.

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7 minutes ago, vel said:

Solid? No. They should run the ball. But when you are averaging less than 2 ypc and the opponent's secondary can barely cover your WRs, why spend the snaps on running the ball for the sake of balance? Run the ball late to ice the clock. You are acting like the Eagles run defense is just decent. That's a top tier unit. With an OL that hasn't gelled and lost a guy mid game. 

I'm not saying just throw the ball every snap. I'm saying take advantaged of the weaknesses of your opponent. That was passing the ball. 

The one thing about Boy Wonder that I hated but grew to love was that when a run was called we were going to run that play regardless of what the offense was doing.  Why?  Because there was a bigger picture at play in his gameplan and play calling.  Chess instead of checkers.  Slow play in poker instead of bidding based off of what others around the table have done.

We gave up on the run way too early for a team that was ahead for most of the game.  At this point it seems like we’re passing the ball heavily because of the weapons we have instead of setting things up to effectively use our weapons.  Many more passing opportunities would’ve been opened in the eagles defense if they had play action to account for as well.  But they weren’t worried about that because even when we were up we weren’t trying to run.  

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49 minutes ago, ShadyRef said:

Really? Then why are his vertical concepts more creative than Dirk's? I tend to see tyreke hill and their other weapons get open with space often despite defenses knowing to key in on them. I haven't seen those kind of free running space for our guys since Shanahan left. 

Think of the ones that we didn't hit.  We had 3 receivers in open space yesterday, IIRC, Hardy, Julio and Ridley.  All three were near misses.  Any one of those would have scored if we'd hit them.

The reality is the offense isn't clicking.  Give it some time.  

While you do, watch this and remember this was not a good football team:

 

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Remember also -- Koetter is not as precious about the football as Shanahan was.  He doesn't mind 50/50 balls.  He'll encourage the QB to take some shots and trust his WRs, especially when his WRs are Sanu, Ridley and Julio.  So you'll see us throw some balls that looks like the WR is covered instead of waiting for him to clear into open space.  But he schemes guys open all the time.  It's happened with us already and we're only 2 games in.

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