FalconsIn2020

Julio’s CAP Numbers:

203 posts in this topic

25 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

They were still a very good team throughout, even when they missed the playoffs.  But they spent so much on their in house extensions on defense that certain parts of their roster were tragically thin.  

In 2016 they spent a total of 6 million on their entire OL.  That is all I was referencing with regards to a comparison. They were top-heavy which isn’t a great recipe for success IMO

Maybe not the ideal recipe for success, but they had success either way.  I mean which one of those big deals were they not supposed to make to keep that historic defense together that carried them to two Super Bowls? 

You already named Jake Matthews, but which one of these other top 10 contracts shouldn't have been made?

 

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2 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Maybe not the ideal recipe for success, but they had success either way.  I mean which one of those big deals were they not supposed to make to keep that historic defense together that carried them to two Super Bowls? 

You already named Jake Matthews, but which one of these other top 10 contracts shouldn't have been made?

 

Maybe you let Sherman, an elite corner at the time, walk in order to add s quality OL or two.  They had enough talent on defense to absorb the loss of any one player in my opinion 

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29 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Maybe not the ideal recipe for success, but they had success either way.  I mean which one of those big deals were they not supposed to make to keep that historic defense together that carried them to two Super Bowls? 

You already named Jake Matthews, but which one of these other top 10 contracts shouldn't have been made?

 

Exactly.

Yes Matthews had a bad game Sunday, but he had a solid season last year. No way could we let him get away and leave Ryan hanging out there like we did 2013-14. 

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Just now, FalconsIn2020 said:

Maybe you let Sherman, an elite corner at the time, walk in order to add s quality OL or two.  They had enough talent on defense to absorb the loss of any one player in my opinion 

They weren't letting Sherman go.  Sherman took away half the field.  Even when they were in zone, they could play man on Sherman's side and roll coverage the other way.  It would have been a crippling blow to take that x-factor out of that defense.  They literally had a who's who of corners play on the other side and in the nickel spot.  Walter Thurmond,  Jeremy Lane, Brandon Browner -- guys no one remembers because of how solid Sherman was on his side, allowed them to cover up for whoever was on the other.  

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52 minutes ago, federicofalcon2 said:

The problem with this is that it makes it where players who feel that they deserve MORE, as you can see with Prescott and Gordon this year, you will always have those who want to exceed everyone else.

Setting spending limits on positions will only make things more difficult, when you look at teams that spend LESS on certain positions and are able to allocate monies larger on QB, DL, WR, etc, it makes it where you can distribute accordingly without having to pay EVERYONE top dollar.  

We have so many top players that we are either going to pay them and be strapped for cash, or we are going to lose some of them.....or in this case, BOTH!

Everyone always wants more, no matter what position or team they play for.  It just is what it is.  I agree they should get all they can. 

Also, that would be difficult, since dead cap also takes into account, what position would you be in if, for example, we cut Matt Ryan, had to eat his 30+ million dollar cap hit and be left with 5 million to get a new one.  I just wouldn't work.

Dang !! See I didnt think that far!! Yea this wouldnt work at all and truly might make it worse!! Thanks for the insight you and the other guy help me see how bad this would be. Lol thanks for the input!!

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8 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

They weren't letting Sherman go.  Sherman took away half the field.  Even when they were in zone, they could play man on Sherman's side and roll coverage the other way.  It would have been a crippling blow to take that x-factor out of that defense.  They literally had a who's who of corners play on the other side and in the nickel spot.  Walter Thurmond,  Jeremy Lane, Brandon Browner -- guys no one remembers because of how solid Sherman was on his side, allowed them to cover up for whoever was on the other.  

Yep. Sherman and whoever was similar to Deion and whoever. 

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20 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Maybe not the ideal recipe for success, but they had success either way.  I mean which one of those big deals were they not supposed to make to keep that historic defense together that carried them to two Super Bowls? 

You already named Jake Matthews, but which one of these other top 10 contracts shouldn't have been made?

 

It’s not that any one of them shouldn’t have been made.  They are all great players.  But what’s the cutoff number when signing your own great players?  If we had another Grady at DT, do we sign him as well?  At a certain point you have to say no.  Matthews would have been my one sacrifice

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19 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Maybe you let Sherman, an elite corner at the time, walk in order to add s quality OL or two.  They had enough talent on defense to absorb the loss of any one player in my opinion 

Terrible idea. That’s like letting Deion sanders walk and the falcons didn’t make the playoffs again until they got ray Buchanan. 

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4 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

It’s not that any one of them shouldn’t have been made.  They are all great players.  But what’s the cutoff number when signing your own great players?  If we had another Grady at DT, do we sign him as well?  At a certain point you have to say no.  Matthews would have been my one sacrifice

You don’t let your core players go. You just don’t. Plus who protects your 100 million dollar vet qb if you let Matthews wall? 

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14 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

They weren't letting Sherman go.  Sherman took away half the field.  Even when they were in zone, they could play man on Sherman's side and roll coverage the other way.  It would have been a crippling blow to take that x-factor out of that defense.  They literally had a who's who of corners play on the other side and in the nickel spot.  Walter Thurmond,  Jeremy Lane, Brandon Browner -- guys no one remembers because of how solid Sherman was on his side, allowed them to cover up for whoever was on the other.  

Sherman is soooooo underrated because of his persona....but he was one **** of a corner in that Seattle defense.  

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25 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Yeah there will be surprise cuts next year.

Many TATFr’s think the bill never comes due with cap increases but that is not exactly true - we have a lot of guys on big contracts now and the middle class players and some aging guys will be purged next year.

That is reality.

It is always prudent when you get to a certain number of large contracts and we have:

Matt Ryan

Julio Jones

Grady Jarrett

Deion Jones

Desmond Trufant

Alex Mack

Jake Matthews

 

That there will be purges down the line somewhere.   The OLine is such that Mack will probably be safe in 2020 as well as long as he is still playing at a high level - same for Trufant.

Guys like Freeman and Sanu are likely cuts and there could be others.   We have some young guys that could step up in 2020 - if Falcons continue to draft well and get big physical guys on both lines of scrimmage we will be fine.

I am glad to see Falcons starting to protect their draft picks so we come into each draft with at least 7 picks to start with.   If you draft less than 7, sobeit but at least start that way and walk out of draft with 6 players.

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24 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Exactly.

Yes Matthews had a bad game Sunday, but he had a solid season last year. No way could we let him get away and leave Ryan hanging out there like we did 2013-14. 

He had a more than solid season last year, he was excellent. I'm sure he'll get back on track, he wasn't the only one having a terrible game last game. 

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2 hours ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Like I said, a purge is coming.  The first 3 listed are Pro Bowl or All Pro players.  That kind of loss in a single offseason has an impact.

True but they've already made moves to address 2 or the 3.

If you've noticed they've kept a lot of talent at the RB position this year.

They drafted Sanu's replacement last season.  I was pleasantly surprised they kept Sanu on the roster this year.

Mack would be the tough one.  Hopefully TD learned in 2013 -2015 what happens when you try to replace the center and don't have a valid replacement on the roster.  Converting a career guard isn't going to cut it.

I imagine a restructure and they draft a center next year.... unless they find a stud Center in the draft... but that's still a painful learning curve for a rookie.

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10 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

They weren't letting Sherman go.  Sherman took away half the field.  Even when they were in zone, they could play man on Sherman's side and roll coverage the other way.  It would have been a crippling blow to take that x-factor out of that defense.  They literally had a who's who of corners play on the other side and in the nickel spot.  Walter Thurmond,  Jeremy Lane, Brandon Browner -- guys no one remembers because of how solid Sherman was on his side, allowed them to cover up for whoever was on the other.  

Fair point.  But they cut him 3 years into his contract.

 It paid dividends the first two years, though

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11 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Terrible idea. That’s like letting Deion sanders walk and the falcons didn’t make the playoffs again until they got ray Buchanan. 

He isn’t on their roster.  Carroll wanted the CAP flexibility.  I guess it comes down to whether or not they could’ve won their Super Bowl without  Richard Sherman.

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4 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

It’s not that any one of them shouldn’t have been made.  They are all great players.  But what’s the cutoff number when signing your own great players?  If we had another Grady at DT, do we sign him as well?  At a certain point you have to say no.  Matthews would have been my one sacrifice

Personally I want all the great players I can get, but that’s why you draft. That’s why you have a Kazee. That’s why you draft McGary, or Ito. 

That’s why identity is so important. When you know what your identity is you can lock in on the key areas that make your scheme go. That’ll tell you who you can and can’t live without.

You reference New England. Just as an example: schematically, Bill Belichick views pass rush completely different than us. He builds his defensive lines to hold ground and control space more than anything. He has no use for those athletic, twitchy pass pushers. That’s why Chandler Jones is expendable and he can roll with Kyle Van Noy and whoever reasonably priced free agent is available that year. Last year it was Clay. This year it’s Michael Bennett.

He wants thumpers at inside linebacker who have versatility and smarts. That’s why traded athletic Jamie Collins away a few years ago before he got expensive and has held onto Dont’a Hightower who’s not half the athlete.

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14 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

You don’t let your core players go. You just don’t. Plus who protects your 100 million dollar vet qb if you let Matthews wall? 

But what if we have 15 core players all of whom deserve 15 million or more per year.  What is the cutoff?

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3 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Fair point.  But they cut him 3 years into his contract.

 It paid dividends the first two years, though

Writing was on the wall. That locker room was starting to implode and the LOB was getting old. It was time to start turning it over. Just because he didn’t finish out his contract doesn’t mean it wasn’t the right move in 2014, literally a few months after they had played in their second Super Bowl, and right in the middle of their run, to re-sign him.

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8 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Personally I want all the great players I can get, but that’s why you draft. That’s why you have a Kazee. That’s why you draft McGary, or Ito. 

That’s why identity is so important. When you know what your identity is you can lock in on the key areas that make your scheme go. That’ll tell you who you can and can’t live without.

You reference New England. Just as an example: schematically, Bill Belichick views pass rush completely different than us. He builds his defensive lines to hold ground and control space more than anything. He has no use for those athletic, twitchy pass pushers. That’s why Chandler Jones is expendable and he can roll with Kyle Van Noy and whoever reasonably priced free agent is available that year. Last year it was Clay. This year it’s Michael Bennett.

He wants thumpers at inside linebacker who have versatility and smarts. That’s why traded athletic Jamie Collins away a few years ago before he got expensive and has held onto Dont’a Hightower who’s not half the athlete.

Great response.  All salient points.  Especially the part about team identity and allocating resources to strengthen that identity

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There is a 30% rule in the current CBA which says that contracts signed during the time of the current CBA cannot increase in value by more than 30% in 2021.  That means you can't backload contracts like you could a few years before.  Also, there is a chance the CAP actually decreases due to the possibility that TV revenue will decrease.  The current TV contracts with have a mandatory 7% increase each year.  They is likely to go away when the new TV contracts are signed starting in 2020.

Front loading big contracts this year and next is a wise move.  There are going to be some teams who have to void contracts or cut people because they are not managing them wisely.

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30 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

That’s why identity is so important. When you know what your identity is you can lock in on the key areas that make your scheme go. That’ll tell you who you can and can’t live without.

He wants thumpers at inside linebacker who have versatility and smarts. That’s why traded athletic Jamie Collins away a few years ago before he got expensive and has held onto Dont’a Hightower who’s not half the athlete.

Do you believe Matthews is a core piece of our identity on offense?  

I sure wish we had spent 2 million for Collins at LB this offseason.  NE got him for $1,000,000 I think

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3 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Do you believe Matthews is a core piece of our identity on offense?  

I sure wish we had spent 2 million for Collins at LB this offseason.  NE got him for $1,000,000 I think

Yes. As it goes right now the most important piece to any offense is your QB. The second most important is the guy protecting him.

You don’t let a left tackle go unless you’ve got his replacement or you’re someone like the Seahawks who believe you can go grab a big guy out of Ace hardware and coach him up.

:lol: which the Seahawks actually tried, btw when they let Russell Okung walk. They grabbed George Fant off the street, a basketball player who literally played one year of football as a tight end no less, and said, “yeah let’s make this guy the blind side protector to our $100 quarterback.”

And poor Tom Cable wound up the fall guy. I know he was like wtf every year looking at what they were giving him to work with.

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