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NWFALCON

Newb Question

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Hey guys,

I have a quick question. As I watched some of the big run plays that the Vikings had on us, I noticed that they pulled Guards and Tackles to get out in front of the runner. 

What is the proper technique for a defense to overcome the now one or two 300lb blockers coming at them? I’ve seen film where the backer will just crash into the pulling Offensive lineman to try to get push back but that doesn’t always work.

I foresee a lot of this being run against our defense but I’m totally clueless on what the correct response would’ve been to reduce the damage. 

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For me go and meet the pulling G’s don’t wait for them to get to you.

300 plus on the move vs 260 lb stationary DE I like my chances with a pulling G in fact they look foward to that delivering the blow.

Penetration kills alot of runs like that forcing them back inside then your LBers flow to the ball.

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It depends on the alignment of the defensive line and the coverage because that will dictate the run fits.

Generally you want to take the block on with your outside arm free so that you can force the ball back inside. You don’t want sweeps getting outside of you.

Now if that 300 pounder for some reason gets past the second level and now it’s a 190 lb. defensive back who’s got to try to take that on, well god bless, thank you for coming out, and goodnight... unless that d-back is Kam Chancellor — in which case he’d be a little bigger than 190.

Edited by PeytonMannings Forehead

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If a RB is running behind a G:

     RB

     G

   Tackler

If I (tackler) go right, the RB goes left. If I go left, the RB goes right. I miss the RB and the guard is still running downfield.

I was always taught to run into the guard. Not trying to push them back or anything, just sacrificing yourself to take out the G. Now the RB is one on one with the next defender who I need to trust to make the tackle.

If I don't do it, I leave the next defender having to deal with the guard and the RB.

So when you say "I’ve seen film where the backer will just crash into the pulling Offensive lineman" - thats exactly the technique I was taught.

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6 hours ago, Falcons_Frenzy said:

Dan Quinn? Is that you asking? This is very suspicious :ninja:

That’s cute bro! 

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To add to what a few other posters have said, and what I'm about to say is WAAAAAAAAY over simplified, but just to add an example.

My son is almost 8 and decided he wanted to play rec ball this year out of the blue. His 1st game was Saturday and he spent the whole 4 quarters on his butt. Why? Because when the ball was snapped he would stand up and wait for the blocker or defender to come to him. 

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9 hours ago, NWFALCON said:

Hey guys,

I have a quick question. As I watched some of the big run plays that the Vikings had on us, I noticed that they pulled Guards and Tackles to get out in front of the runner. 

What is the proper technique for a defense to overcome the now one or two 300lb blockers coming at them? I’ve seen film where the backer will just crash into the pulling Offensive lineman to try to get push back but that doesn’t always work.

I foresee a lot of this being run against our defense but I’m totally clueless on what the correct response would’ve been to reduce the damage. 

Here's something that will blow your mind.

The Falcons offense more or less does the same thing when it comes to the run game  They have the same roots and same concepts.

That's why it's a little perplexing that the Falcons had such difficulty defending it.

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35 minutes ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

Here's something that will blow your mind.

The Falcons offense more or less does the same thing when it comes to the run game  They have the same roots and same concepts.

That's why it's a little perplexing that the Falcons had such difficulty defending it.

Roots and concepts may be the same or similar, but implementation and disguise are always fluid.

All it takes is one aspect; a wrinkle, that you don’t see quick enough and respond to properly. So, they beat you on fundamentals recognition of your change in assignment. That’s assuming you don’t miss play the basics without anything different. 

Almost all teams run some form of zone blocking. At least two out of three teams run it primarily.

 If someone tries to be a hero and leaves their primary assignment; misses and gets washed out, now they hurt the other players trying to play it properly because you just blew the play up for the other team.

Think of it like a DB going for a pick by jumping a route or misreading the play all together but leaving another area. It’s a miss play unless you are sure. That’s what Quinn wants players to do. Players not plays doesn’t mean ignoring the fundamental responsibility just because you think you can. 

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8 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Roots and concepts may be the same or similar, but implementation and disguise are always fluid.

All it takes is one aspect; a wrinkle, that you don’t see quick enough and respond to properly. So, they beat you on fundamentals recognition of your change in assignment. That’s assuming you don’t miss play the basics without anything different. 

Almost all teams run some form of zone blocking. At least two out of three teams run it primarily.

 If someone tries to be a hero and leaves their primary assignment; misses and gets washed out, now they hurt the other players trying to play it properly because you just blew the play up for the other team.

Think of it like a DB going for a pick by jumping a route or misreading the play all together but leaving another area. It’s a miss play unless you are sure. That’s what Quinn wants players to do. Players not plays doesn’t mean ignoring the fundamental responsibility just because you think you can. 

I get what you're saying but you didn't get someone trying to be a hero except for a couple of plays.  In some of them Takk crashed too hard inside.  Others Beasley couldn't set the edge.

Other times It was straight execution.  For the most part the plays flowed in one direction and the Vikings did a great job executing their blocks and springing cook.

I think you're getting too caught up in the 'new wrinkle' and 'exotic' stuff Davidson was saying.  The Vikings just out played the Falcons when running to the outside.  The Falcons should have been better equipped to stop an outside run in that scheme.  For whatever reason they couldn't until the 4th quarter.

Now flip it.  The Vikings played the Falcons run game perfectly, like they saw it every day.  And when you think about it they do.

Sure lots of teams run a form of zone blocking,  it's a copycat league.  The Falcons picked up the scheme from Shanahan who learned it from Kubiak who learned it from Kyles Dad and Alex Gibbs. So they're probably not identical but very similar. 

Maybe that's it.  The Vikings are running a 'purer' version of the scheme, if you will, because they have one of the original architects/disciples.

Either way they looked much better executing and defending it than the Falcons. 

 

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1 hour ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

Here's something that will blow your mind.

The Falcons offense more or less does the same thing when it comes to the run game  They have the same roots and same concepts.

That's why it's a little perplexing that the Falcons had such difficulty defending it.

Minnesota got a little more creative from what I saw but yeha we sure do. 

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@Sun Tzu 7

I think you missed some of what I’m saying.

It’s not JUST the hero mistake plays, but everyone that failed their responsibility even in proper run fits.

All it takes is not reading your keys and getting washed out of plays you should be able to set the edge first one and let your teammates meet the RB closer to the LOS.

If the Falcons of all teams with speed are beat to the edge first, even if the end is playing his role, there is a problem.

Slow slow slow.

LBs, DEs and Safeties are what DQ called our.

He wouldn’t be saying they misplayed it publicly if it weren’t true. He says guys didn’t play it like they said they would.

Now, if it’s not fixed it ultimately will fall on the HC.

Even BB has to bench players that do poorly. He doesn’t always have guys playing it perfectly either even for one of the best ever at teaching.

I’m just describing what I saw, what we know of the interiors performance vs what the speed of the other men on Defense should be capable of. Blockers running free to second level around the end uncontested should not happen repeatedly vs the speed we have.

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@Ergo Proxy

I get what you're saying.  What I'm saying is that you would have thought the Falcons would have done a better job stopping what the Vikings were doing to them.

Sure you're going to get a few pops as they first spring it on you but you would have thought they would have been able to shut it down before the 4th quarter.

If you go back and watch some of those outside plays it's like a clinic on how to run that scheme.  They sucked the Falcon defenders in and blocked them perfectly. 

On the flip side.  Vikings showed how to stop it.  It looked they knew exactly where the ball was going and beat the blocker to the spot.

As I mentioned the Vikings have one of the original architects/disciples of that scheme running it where the Falcons have a guy that learned it from a guy that learned it from a guy 3 years ago.  

It's probably just as simple as The Vikings do a better job running that scheme because it certainly looked that way.

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2 hours ago, NWFALCON said:

Minnesota got a little more creative from what I saw but yeha we sure do. 

This. Mn was pulling the play side guard 

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1 minute ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

Cooks a good back.

The kid has good vision and a nice burst.

Yup.  If he could just stay healthy he would be at the top of the list in terms of the league's best...he is legit.

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