vel

After Further Review: Falcons’ poor run defense overshadowed something important

101 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, ShadyRef said:

If he sticks with the 5-2, could he move bailey to Beasley's spot and put Cominsky at the vacant end spot? Will that change anything? 

It’s a hard one personnel wise I don’t think Cominsky all the way there yet.

If I’m honest I’m waiting to see the response next week.

We have the above to go to a bigger front vs the run that’s where I’d start and throw in VB44 as a full time situational rusher.Thats what I’d look for.

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5 hours ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

That being said, everyone can be beat. Looking back over the game, it was a small sample size, but I like the way the pass rush was breaking down the pocket. And Wentz can hold onto the ball at times, looking for that big play.

We get these edges tightened up, (and don’t turn it over ourselves) we might force them to throw it more than 10 times.

Knock on wood...

 And I think that’s really the most important thing as hopefully we can get teams out to three wide etc. and avoid being in our base if it became a problem rushing the passer. I do think we can generate a pass rush from the new look, but let’s stop the run first. ;-) 

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6 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

It’s a hard one personnel wise I don’t think Cominsky all the way there yet.

If I’m honest I’m waiting to see the response next week.

We have the above to go to a bigger front vs the run that’s where I’d start and throw in VB44 as a full time situational rusher.Thats what I’d look for.

As you and I discussed weeks ago, taking a hard look at this coaching staff to step up this season.

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10 hours ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Eagles offensive line is miles better than Minnesota’s and it’s not even close. They literally can do it all.

Scary part is Vikings OL graded out the worst in NFL Week 1.  

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31 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Scary part is Vikings OL graded out the worst in NFL Week 1.  

For pass blocking*

Problem was we didn’t make them throw enough obviously. 

You would think with our speed on defense that being dominant on the interior defensive line would allow for a dominant run defense.

That’s why I think it will work as long as the changes isn’t flawed in scheme and it’s a matter of coaching up the players. 

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17 hours ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

I saw that too. And I’m all for experimenting but this may be one of those cases where DQ might be out thinking himself.

I totally agree. The Falcons have an abundance of players capable of setting the edge. More than I've seen in quite some time.

This is about how DQ mix and match the players

First game looked like a preseason game.

Edited by FinalScore2.0

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30 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

This is what I thought going in, but I didn’t see much multiple Sunday. It looked more like Bob Sutton’s 3-4 than DQ’s trademark 4-3.

It did. I think the multiplicity will depend on who we play. 

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Having a chance to rewatch not only the game but different gifs and such of it reinforces my belief in being totally fixable and it was more om what we didn't do vs what the Vikings actually did.

It is a copy cat league so I fully expect the Eagles to try and do what the Vikings did.

 

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2 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

Having a chance to rewatch not only the game but different gifs and such of it reinforces my belief in being totally fixable and it was more om what we didn't do vs what the Vikings actually did.

It is a copy cat league so I fully expect the Eagles to try and do what the Vikings did.

 

That would be stupid for them to do and I can’t  wait to see see it 

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27 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

It did. I think the multiplicity will depend on who we play. 

I hope so. That is what DQ indicated in preseason. 

I’m anxious to see what we roll out against Philly who works almost exclusively out of 3 wide.

@vel astutely pointed out last week, Sutton’s hire as being about more than just game management which makes total sense. And when I think of every coach in the NFL who calls their own plays, they all have coordinators helping then out.

And seeing what I saw Sunday looked a lot like Sutton had a heavy influence. I refuse to believe DQ has gone away from his bread and butter, but I can’t ignore my lying eyes.

i mean I saw us on a few snaps run an old fashioned okie front... and actual 3-4 okie with a nose, and two gapping ends. 

Edited by PeytonMannings Forehead

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23 minutes ago, GrimeyKidd said:

That would be stupid for them to do and I can’t  wait to see see it 

Nah not stupid...I am a firm believer in running some thing until they stop it.

Now if we stop it early and they keep trying then that is stupid.

But if I am Peterson, I am throwing in a wrinkle or 2 and running the exact same type of play and force us to stop it.

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 I saw a lot of free lancing going on by the D. May not be a big point, but I recall Neal saying “Uh, he's gonna let the players play, that's one thing I would say,”. Schemes seem too loose Sunday. As stated not much gap control. Come on coaches; COACH!!

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13 hours ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

That being said, everyone can be beat. Looking back over the game, it was a small sample size, but I like the way the pass rush was breaking down the pocket. And Wentz can hold onto the ball at times, looking for that big play.

We get these edges tightened up, (and don’t turn it over ourselves) we might force them to throw it more than 10 times.

Knock on wood...

Exactly what I saw as well. Had the Falcons been able to stop the run early and not gotten behind 14-0 so quickly we might have had a different outcome. Pass rush was getting home. Jarrett and Beasley were getting pressure. Neal on the blitz.

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2 hours ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

I hope so. That is what DQ indicated in preseason. 

I’m anxious to see what we roll out against Philly who works almost exclusively out of 3 wide.

@vel astutely pointed out last week, Sutton’s hire as being about more than just game management which makes total sense. And when I think of every coach in the NFL who calls their own plays, they all have coordinators helping then out.

And seeing what I saw Sunday looked a lot like Sutton had a heavy influence. I refuse to believe DQ has gone away from his bread and butter, but I can’t ignore my lying eyes.

i mean I saw us on a few snaps run an old fashioned okie front... and actual 3-4 okie with a nose, and two gapping ends. 

Yep. Will be interesting to see how they attack the Eagles compared to Minny. I think they go back to more 4-3 looks, given their success with them the last couple of times. They never got out of their "base" because the Vikings never had to. The Eagles will spread it out more because that's their game. Crawford should play. Campbell shouldn't be on the edges as much. Stuff like that. 

I think the players just thought them showing up was going to make the scheme work. They learned a valuable lesson last Sunday. You can have all of the formations you want to perfectly exploit an opponent's weakness, which that 3-4 front destroyed the Vikings interior repeatedly, it doesn't matter if guys don't even play basic assignment football. Think about it. Grady got 3 hits, 1 sack, and a forced fumble on 10 pass rush opportunities. They probably would have destroyed that interior if Cousins was forced to throw the ball. But he wasn't

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On 9/10/2019 at 4:35 PM, Dr Long Shot said:

The issue was on the edges. Not sure what the **** we were doing out there but it was some of the worst DE run defense I've seen in my entire life. Our lBers were perplexingly terrible too, and that includes Deion Jones who had one of his worst games that I can recall. 

I've seen worse...back in 2004 the Falcons lost 56-10 to the chiefs. The run D could not stop them the entire game...terrible!

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On 9/10/2019 at 7:28 PM, kiwifalcon said:

Why not Bailey on the strong side end and Takk go more over fronts with Jarrett and Davison in the base.

If our interior is fine why not go over and bigger on the edge.

Use VB44 as a legit situational rusher anything 2nd & 3rd and long he’s in get him out of run D completely.

 

This sounds logical to me.  I don't want to turn this into a "trash Vic" post, but I am really disappointed in his lack of production.  I see him as a one-dimensional pass rusher.  Nothing more.  

Quinn should just use Vic sparingly.  And as far as re-signing him....I wouldn't.  

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3 hours ago, jm_falcons said:

I've seen worse...back in 2004 the Falcons lost 56-10 to the chiefs. The run D could not stop them the entire game...terrible!

Watching BVG defenses in general sucked the entire life out of me. Every short yardage play converted, every drive seemed to be like chinese water torture as they slowly made their way down the field with ease...

 

 

On the state of our D.....

 

  • I'm not ringing the alarm bells yet for Rico and Neal, Neal needs to trust his body it seems. Two of our most important players *should* look better and better. But they looked like rookies. Shocking, but I guess understandable for week 1.
  • Everyone without their hand in the dirt had a sub-par game. #45 and the safeties should sure it up. Color me concerned about Dre. Eagles will be tough on our LBs.
  • We got shellacked early, had bad luck, and frankly looked physically outplayed everywhere outside of our DL. Humans, not robots are playing a game with swings, momentum, home field advantage, and a healthy dose of luck. We were on the losing side of all of those. Ish happens. We slowed them down 2nd half, but our big names need to be in big moments. Grady turned up. The others look unsure.
  • Watching Vic Beasley have a sack in front of him, get sold by a (albeit great) pump fake, then proceed to hug a man 35lbs lighter than him.... That is everything that frustrates about Vic encapsulated in one down of football. Has the tools to get there, lacks the DL instincts to follow up, and then shows his lack of 'nastiness' by failing to get the QB on the ground. I wish you could lock him in a room with Brian Dawkins for a year, or just give a guy who actually wants to create chaos his ridiculous physical skill set. 
  • Oliver is an easy completion right now, but again, it will come for him. I don't like his instincts much though...
  • Allen Bailey and Ty are clearly massive additions to the team. Ty somehow managed to rack up 8 combined tackles. From the nose. I see you big man. He chases down run plays, kid is all heart. Love our interior right now. And one should never sleep on Jack Crawford.
  • Grady is one of those players you don't need to worry about when you give him a cargo container full of guaranteed dough. Clearly.
  • The edge woes, thank god, is coachable. You'd think the years of running stretch zone would see us capable of stopping it, but Cook is also the truth.... This will get fixed.
  • Pass rush looked good in small sample size. Let's see who gets home against the best in the league.... Wentz loves to be sacked by taking years, so we should see some pressure if the back end can do their bit.
  • I'd love to see what DQ is like behind closed doors, I'm hoping he's is aggressively lighting fires under players. His patience should have ran out now. Love the guy, but if he doesn't turn out a top 10 D this year, playoffs or no playoffs, he gone. We have the 53. They need to play angry.
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On 9/11/2019 at 1:37 AM, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

That being said, everyone can be beat. Looking back over the game, it was a small sample size, but I like the way the pass rush was breaking down the pocket. And Wentz can hold onto the ball at times, looking for that big play.

We get these edges tightened up, (and don’t turn it over ourselves) we might force them to throw it more than 10 times.

Knock on wood...

....if you’re with me 

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8 hours ago, jm_falcons said:

I've seen worse...back in 2004 the Falcons lost 56-10 to the chiefs. The run D could not stop them the entire game...terrible!

That game was unreal. Didn't help that the Falcons offense couldn't even get a first down to give the D a breather. 8 rushing TD's allowed that day. Then the very next game the Falcons offense put up 41 and beat the Broncos in Denver. That is the kind of offensive inconsistency we got during the Vick years that I was trying to make a point of in the other thread but a few posters totally missed the point because I said something about Vick throwing for 300 yards.

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6 hours ago, etherdome said:

This sounds logical to me.  I don't want to turn this into a "trash Vic" post, but I am really disappointed in his lack of production.  I see him as a one-dimensional pass rusher.  Nothing more.  

Quinn should just use Vic sparingly.  And as far as re-signing him....I wouldn't.  

This is the thing it’s the combinations DQ uses that intrigues me.

Just that one play with Bailey stunting inside and holding the POA against the double team so Beasley isn’t engaged is good coaching right there.Its not so much the player for me it’s the chess move by the coach to understand how do I use this cat VB44 to his best effect in a certain situation which I found the most interesting.

I don’t think they do resign the guy but it’s a make or break year for him millions of $$$$$$$ on the line if he doesn’t ball as above he then becomes a journeyman playing for contracts from year to year this is the challenge he faces.

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On 9/11/2019 at 0:37 PM, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

I hope so. That is what DQ indicated in preseason. 

I’m anxious to see what we roll out against Philly who works almost exclusively out of 3 wide.

@vel astutely pointed out last week, Sutton’s hire as being about more than just game management which makes total sense. And when I think of every coach in the NFL who calls their own plays, they all have coordinators helping then out.

And seeing what I saw Sunday looked a lot like Sutton had a heavy influence. I refuse to believe DQ has gone away from his bread and butter, but I can’t ignore my lying eyes.

i mean I saw us on a few snaps run an old fashioned okie front... and actual 3-4 okie with a nose, and two gapping ends. 

I agree 100%

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