vel

After Further Review: Falcons’ poor run defense overshadowed something important

101 posts in this topic

36 minutes ago, Sun Tzu 7 said:

Got to give the Vikings credit.

They out played the Falcons and Cook is a good back.

The Falcons may have helped him on his way to the Pro Bowl.

Cook is a beast. Wanted to draft him soo badly in fantasy. Got Freeman instead :bang:

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1 minute ago, Ergo Proxy said:

If we can get teams into our Nickel it’ll be a 4 man front.

We didn’t see many pass attempts yet but I like the chances of creating 1on1s with Grady/DE oppo him (think Crawford or Cominsky later this year if he progresses) and then you can always bring Takk or Vic or both if the matchup in a 3rd and long keeps Base D out there but I’d expect a sub to Crawford or AC in those scenarios. Depends on what teams do.

It seems like a goal of creating more 1on1s in base. I think it’ll lend itself to some blitzing, but obviously the run D is the biggest concern as of today.

And this is my issue. Teams will start throwing on us from base. We can’t always rely on getting to Nickel and we aren’t a blitzing team. That touchdown to Thielen came from us rushing 5 from our base, which meant there was no one to Rob the middle of the field like we normally do. 

That means Takk or Beasley are going to have to regularly start dropping into coverage, which they each did at different times — and did not look particularly good doing. Vic especially.

I’m not feeling those prospects.

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16 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

And this is my issue. Teams will start throwing on us from base. We can’t always rely on getting to Nickel and we aren’t a blitzing team. That touchdown to Thielen came from us rushing 5 from our base, which meant there was no one to Rob the middle of the field like we normally do. 

That means Takk or Beasley are going to have to regularly start dropping into coverage, which they each did at different times — and did not look particularly good doing. Vic especially.

I’m not feeling those prospects.

I think they'll settle down PMF. I think. I agree this forcing Vic to be an every down player is a fool's errand. Should have traded him. But we're here now. He's not a football player. He's always going to be the weak link on the defense. Him and Campbell. I wish Campbell was better on the edge, then you could get Foye on the field and make Vic a pass rusher only. 

Too much ego. DQ needs to be open to this potentially not working. I'm fine with maximizing Grady, Davison, and Bailey, but Vic ain't gonna cut it.

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Defense has been this teams weakest link for 11 years and really longer than that. 2 defensive head coaches, multiple once respected defensive coordinators have all failed because TD couldn't draft or sign a good defensive player if he was sitting on his face. Anyone of us could draft 4 decent defensive players in 11 drafts so don't tell me about Grady,Tru,Neal or Deion or i'll  have to tell you about Rashede,Collins,Peria, Sidbury and rapist that drove the girl to kill herself and 2nd Falcon to kill dogs, Prince Shembo among the other horrible failures and better players we passed over to draft that hot trash.

Even the Super Bowl year this team had to score 30+ points to win a game, we haven't had an edge rusher since John Abraham. Kroy Biermann was better at getting pressure than half this starting D. DQ and TD are only second to Andy Reid in pissing away teams full potential and wasting prime years of HOF players careers. I look forward to going 8-8 and winning the last few games to fall in the draft so we can draft a front 4 lineman who will probably be out of the league in 2 years cause he picked up a trans hooker the night before a big game and didn't feel he should be charged full price and the police had to get involved. I'll be more optimistic once super fraud and collapse master Dan Quinn is gone and not replaced with Dirk and Arthur finally has his balls drop and fires TD, TD is what Matt Millens life could've been had he just drafted one good WR.......Sorry, what were we talking about?

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Shoring up the interior was crucial.  I'm glad we did that.  We have the talent to set the edge.  Hopefully that gets shored up sooner rather than later.  If so, I expect the big dogs to eat.  

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1 hour ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Heard DQ say back in the summer that part of the season for going to the 2pt. stance for Takk and Vic was the help with setting the edge.

:(

BuT tHeY wErE uPrePaRed...

As some have already said, coaches can only put their players in position to succeed. It's still up to the players to execute.

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11 minutes ago, vel said:

I think they'll settle down PMF. I think. I agree this forcing Vic to be an every down player is a fool's errand. Should have traded him. But we're here now. He's not a football player. He's always going to be the weak link on the defense. Him and Campbell. I wish Campbell was better on the edge, then you could get Foye on the field and make Vic a pass rusher only. 

Too much ego. DQ needs to be open to this potentially not working. I'm fine with maximizing Grady, Davison, and Bailey, but Vic ain't gonna cut it.

Bro, I hope so... I really hope so, because I'm not prone to overreaction or getting down on coaches, but this one of those things, I'm just not feeling.  And I love me some DQ.  Love the scheme, love his whole philosophy, but this...

We only had to face 10 passes Sunday, so a lot of this is still up in the air, but if I'm an offensive coach putting together a gameplan, I know exactly how I'm attacking this defense.

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Just now, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Bro, I hope so... I really hope so, because I'm not prone to overreaction or getting down on coaches, but this one of those things, I'm just not feeling.  And I love me some DQ.  Love the scheme, love his whole philosophy, but this...

We only had to face 10 passes Sunday, so a lot of this is still up in the air, but if I'm an offensive coach putting together a gameplan, I know exactly how I'm attacking this defense.

Yep. But that's also why I'm confident in DQ because he knows that too. If you and I know it, he knows it. The players doing it is another thing. But he'll drill it all week. I'm confident in that. Again, they got embarrassed, but truthfully, Matt doesn't throw that pick and Freeman doesn't fumble and we're talking about a different game. Yes, those are if's, but those are also rare plays. And we've also seen this group bounce back when healthy multiple times. 

I'll be very concerned if they don't though.

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1 hour ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

I saw that too. And I’m all for experimenting but this may be one of those cases where DQ might be outthinking himself. He seems to be intent on making Vic an every down player, which in this alignment means turning him into a linebacker for all intents and purposes. We’ve seen that experiment.

Put Takk back on the weak side so he doesn’t have to set an edge every down and Bailey at the 5. If we can’t find a true SAM to play on top of the TE to play the Under, which may be the real reason for all this, then so be it. Put Claborn on the other side and we’ll play Over.

We can still get 8 men in the box and we can get three true linebackers on the field with Foye out there.

Isn't devondre a true SAM?

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2 hours ago, kiwifalcon said:

Vel great thread but I’m sorry to say alot of the fools that are going to comment on this are probably the same idiots throwing darts about how much Jarrett was over paid or how they compare his importance to the defense vs a DEbo or someone of that ilk.

Jarretts always been a beast I guess it just took a game like this to only magnify that fact yet alot of fans round here wanted him shown the door.

One word Jokers.

People already were posting how "Grady didn't do much." 

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22 minutes ago, ShadyRef said:

Isn't devondre a true SAM?

Depends on the package.  

He's only 232 and he does play over the TE when we need it (mainly for coverage), but you don't want to make a living with him having to set that edge on the strong side.  That's why they tried to fit Vic into that role a few seasons ago.

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33 minutes ago, Bunchy Carter said:

People already were posting how "Grady didn't do much." 

:doh::bang::sigh::vince:

The funniest thing I’ve seen the last few days Julio struggles to seperate lol.

Theres some absurd BS been written the last few days.

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1 hour ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

And this is my issue. Teams will start throwing on us from base. We can’t always rely on getting to Nickel and we aren’t a blitzing team. That touchdown to Thielen came from us rushing 5 from our base, which meant there was no one to Rob the middle of the field like we normally do. 

That means Takk or Beasley are going to have to regularly start dropping into coverage, which they each did at different times — and did not look particularly good doing. Vic especially.

I’m not feeling those prospects.

Agreed.  I’m confused on two counts.  First, why did we hire a non-WCO coach to OC our WCO?  Second, why is Quinn,  a coach who has masterfully run a 4-3 Under with multiple Cover1/3 schemes, opting for odd man fronts?

 I honestly would love if we ran Cover 1 with 4-3 under...used the robber and other variations ala the SB.  Alford always shadowed the Edelman’s...perhaps Oliver isn’t ready yet?

Bottom line: it seems like every coordinator/coach outside of Knapp is coaching and scheming things outside their wheelhouse. 

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2 hours ago, vel said:

Oh yea Neal looked like shlt. Don't hold back. Anybody saying otherwise didn't watch the game. I'm not giving him a pass. He had plenty of time to get it together. 

He and Allen were getting flustered. Remember those back to back personal fouls (ticky-tack IMHO)?   I still think he and Allen needed to knock the rust off.

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1 hour ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

What about the pass rush?

Why not Bailey on the strong side end and Takk go more over fronts with Jarrett and Davison in the base.

If our interior is fine why not go over and bigger on the edge.

Use VB44 as a legit situational rusher anything 2nd & 3rd and long he’s in get him out of run D completely.

 

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27 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Depends on the package.  

He's only 232 and he does play over the TE when we need it (mainly for coverage), but you don't want to make a living with him having to set that edge on the strong side.  That's why they tried to fit Vic into that role a few seasons ago.

Vic actually played it pretty well in ‘17. But he’s lost whatever mojo he had back then. 

Campbell was awful Sunday.

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2 hours ago, atljbo said:

dude coming off a acl....... He gets a pass... He looked unsure to me... Just my opinion

 

 

 

this was one of the runs

 

 

 

I was like nooooooooo bro... Neal dont do thattttttt.. Thats not the normal neal yo.... Ive seen neal get off blocks in amazing form and make tackles

 

Again,,,, Looking at the vikings.. They were attacking the LOS even when running east and west...... We was just running east and west... Out of position.... Never attacking forward towards the LOS.

 

We have to get it right because Philly runs that same outside zone

I’m confused as to why Dalvin Cook can lower his head into contact, but Brian Hill can’t.

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15 minutes ago, Godzilla1985 said:

He and Allen were getting flustered. Remember those back to back personal fouls (ticky-tack IMHO)?   I still think he and Allen needed to knock the rust off.

Why did Neal get flagged on that outside run by Cook? He was still in bounds....

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2 hours ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Put Takk back on the weak side so he doesn’t have to set an edge every down and Bailey at the 5. If we can’t find a true SAM to play on top of the TE to play the Under, which may be the real reason for all this, then so be it. Put Claborn on the other side and we’ll play Over.

We can still get 8 men in the box and we can get three true linebackers on the field with Foye out there.

 

15 minutes ago, kiwifalcon said:

Why not Bailey on the strong side end and Takk go more over fronts with Jarrett and Davison in the base.

If our interior is fine why not go over and bigger on the edge.

Use VB44 as a legit situational rusher anything 2nd & 3rd and long he’s in get him out of run D completely.

 

Exactly!:D

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2 hours ago, atljbo said:

dude coming off a acl....... He gets a pass... He looked unsure to me... Just my opinion

I almost felt like he was trying to hard to make plays (or break someone in half) and was looking like Willy Mo out there.

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2 hours ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

I saw that too. And I’m all for experimenting but this may be one of those cases where DQ might be outthinking himself. He seems to be intent on making Vic an every down player, which in this alignment means turning him into a linebacker for all intents and purposes. We’ve seen that experiment.

Put Takk back on the weak side so he doesn’t have to set an edge every down and Bailey at the 5. If we can’t find a true SAM to play on top of the TE to play the Under, which may be the real reason for all this, then so be it. Put Claborn on the other side and we’ll play Over.

We can still get 8 men in the box and we can get three true linebackers on the field with Foye out there.

Great post.  I’m puzzled that he’s not going with the 4-3 over because I think with the personnel we have stopping the run would be better.  

As you mentioned having 3 LBs they will use a stack look (tackle-zero technique-tackle) with the closed-side defensive end in a "7-technique" (outside shoulder of tight end) and the open-side end in a variety of techniques based on game plan.  I’m not sure if the Vikes were mainly running 21 personnel or 22 personnel But I’m just dumbfounded as to why DQ never adjusted his defense to stop the run!  Was it pride or just stubbornness assuming his gameplan would work??

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1 hour ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Agreed.  I’m confused on two counts.  First, why did we hire a non-WCO coach to OC our WCO?  Second, why is Quinn,  a coach who has masterfully run a 4-3 Under with multiple Cover1/3 schemes, opting for odd man fronts?

 I honestly would love if we ran Cover 1 with 4-3 under...used the robber and other variations ala the SB.  Alford always shadowed the Edelman’s...perhaps Oliver isn’t ready yet?

Bottom line: it seems like every coordinator/coach outside of Knapp is coaching and scheming things outside their wheelhouse. 

No doubt. He’s made some strange decisions this off-season. Got me wondering if it ain’t because that seat is burning up.

And I’m all for multiple fronts. I can throw up some screenshots from last year where he had edge guys standing up an the nose head up. Problem is there wasn’t much multiple in our multiple Sunday. It was all 3-4. Which as you pointed out is a strange choice to make for a coach that’s running 4 man lines since he’s been running his own defenses.

 

1 hour ago, Vandy said:

Vic actually played it pretty well in ‘17. But he’s lost whatever mojo he had back then. 

Campbell was awful Sunday.

‘16 is when I thought he was ok out there. I was never in love with him at SAM, although I understood what Quinn was trying to do at the time. 

Looking back I may have been alright with it because we spent so much time in Nickel so it didn’t matter. :lol:

Edited by PeytonMannings Forehead
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I'm definitely an optimist when it comes to this team, and I think we're going to look a lot better versus the Eagles even if we don't win.

Grady Jarrett looked like the one player that came ready. Pretty much the entire team looked absolutely shocked at how fast and hard the Vikes were coming at us. And it showed as the game went on. Our team adjusted and woke up a little bit as the game went on. It was too little, too late, but things never got as out of hand as they did during those first few series again.

And it is a fairly common thing to see good teams come into the season looking lethargic and then catch fire heading into the playoffs. And it's also a thing for a good team to start out very strong and then fizzle out towards the end of the season.

We certainly have some rust to shake off and some adjustments to be made, and I as of being 0-1, still believe we can make them. The Vikings definitely deserved that win, because they just looked like they wanted it more than we did. 

Now if we have a game like this where we totally $hit the bed but it's against a sub par team, then I'll start to panic. 

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8 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

No doubt. He’s made some strange decisions this off-season. Got me wondering if it ain’t because that seat is burning up.

And I’m all for multiple fronts. I can throw up some screenshots from last year where he had edge guys standing up an the nose head up. Problem is there wasn’t much multiple on our multiple Sunday. It was all 3-4. Which as you pointed out is a strange choice to make for a coach that’s running 4 man lines since he’s been running his own defenses.

In times of stress, people usually return to what is familiar or known.  Seems odd that Quinn, whose seat is warm, did the complete opposite.

Still time to turn things around, though

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