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itsryanwonder

Brian HIll AND Ollison? Is this a good move?

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8 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Just disagree.   You always keep the 4th RB over the 10th DL - especially when the 4th RB is more talented.  

We see this every year.  There will be 1-2 darlings if fanbase in preseason that cut cut and everyone gets upset - and that player never goes on to do anything in the league.

Brian Hill is looking good and this could be Freeman’s last year.   Then you are looking at Ito, Hill and Ollison - maybe we draft another guy.  You never know, Hill could be in the mix for starter in 2020.    That’s worth more than the 10th Defensive Lineman.

If we’re looking at Hill as our potential starter for next season, then we’re in a **** load of trouble.

Hill has not improved THAT much.

I can tolerate him as depth, but as our full time starter??? No thanks!

I can learn to roll with getting over our fascination with players that flash in the preseason, but I would pray to (insert higher power here) that our front office would do whatever was in their power to ensure that Brian Hill is NOT our starting RB come 2020, unless he looks like the second coming of Barry Sanders at some point this year.

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8 minutes ago, KRUNKuno said:

That’s always such an overrated argument.

I understand people in the NFL get paid to evaluate players and team needs.  As you all put it, those guys are wayyyy more smarter than us lowly message board posters.

But there are also players that don’t get shots because they don’t fill a need.  Teams are also familiar with their own guys (who already know the playbook, coaches, facilities) etc.  So you’re going to go with what you know first before picking up a guy who would round out the roster or practice squad.

So, you're agreeing with me?

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1 hour ago, KRUNKuno said:

I think TBJ caught a raw deal.  There was no way he was going to make the team.  

It’s obvious that the Falcons want to run a more power oriented style of running game this year!

This plus our 1 and 2 are pretty **** good, but we are going to grind some teams into submission with leads this year. For years we have played finesse ball, not finishing, and haven’t really mashed teams into dust since Turner or even DVD. No one is going to want to see Ollison or Hill coming after being exhausted, chasing Freeman or Smith around all game. Situational ball is easier to execute and more likely to be successful, and depth is important here. There are big boys everywhere. 

Edited by droopy1592

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4 minutes ago, droopy1592 said:

 

This plus our 1 and 2 are pretty **** good, but we are going to grind some teams into submission with leads this year. For years we have played finesse ball, not finishing, and haven’t really mashed teams into dust since Turner or even DVD. No one is going to want to see Ollison or Hill coming after being exhausted, chasing Freeman or Smith around all game. Situational ball is easier to execute and more likely to be successful, and depth is important here. There are big boys everywhere. 

This - and the byproduct is that it makes your defense better.

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2 minutes ago, droopy1592 said:

 

This plus our 1 and 2 are pretty **** good, but we are going to grind some teams into submission with leads this year. For years we have played finesse ball, not finishing, and haven’t really mashed teams into dust since Turner or even DVD. No one is going to want to see Ollison or Hill coming after being exhausted, chasing Freeman or Smith around all game. Situational ball is easier to execute and more likely to be successful, and depth is important here. There are big boys everywhere. 

Looking forward to the Falcons building a 3 TD lead over the first 3 quarters, then switching over to Ollison, Smith, Stocker and Gono as the 6th Olineman and grinding out a 9 minute drive 16 play drive with 14 runs and a couple of passes to to keep them on their heels.

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Can't help but think Hill made it because he may develop into trade value if he has some solid spells in relief.

 

Olly wins out over time because of a paltry rookie contract. I prefer his running style, but everyone knows Hill will be better served to spell in on passing downs/understanding protections. It's not sexy, it's just good depth.

TBJ showed he could play against backups, and well at that. But can he read protections, pick up blitzes or be a special teams ace? Nope. Cut. From a depth position it makes more sense to keep Hill over TBJ. Ideally we find a shifty back in FA or the draft next year if Free's concussion woes continue.

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30 minutes ago, Vandy said:

It really comes down to who the better player is on special teams. 

Defensive Lineman typically aren’t great special team players either.  RBs, Safeties and LBs tend to excel there.

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9 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Defensive Lineman typically aren’t great special team players either.  RBs, Safeties and LBs tend to excel there.

Exactly. 

Bottom line, Hill showed tremendous improvement from a year ago. Ran the ball with authority, and isn’t a liability anymore in passing game. If we had tried to put him on PS, someone would have snatched him up.

Larkin can benefit from a year there. 

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2 minutes ago, TD_Lover said:

Hill is still so overrated. Had one good PS game, then sucked, dropped a TD pass, etc and people here are still saying he's a powerful runner, possible starter, etc. 

You’re still beating that drum?

Hill proved a lot of folks wrong (including me) this preseason.

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3 minutes ago, TD_Lover said:

Hill is still so overrated. Had one good PS game, then sucked, dropped a TD pass, etc and people here are still saying he's a powerful runner, possible starter, etc. 

Yeah you know more than Dan Quinn and the coaching staff. 

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2 minutes ago, Vandy said:

You’re still beating that drum?

What has he done to show he's improved? He did well against players who aren't on a roster anymore. Then did awful against 2nd string guys and dropped a TD pass after we heard all about how much better his hands are.

1 minute ago, g-dawg said:

Yeah you know more than Dan Quinn :rolleyes:

This is always your go to. Idk why but you seem to think coaches are never wrong and it's weird. If Quinn was never wrong we'd have won in 16' man.

We also wouldn't have kept that terrible SS in last year.

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2 minutes ago, TD_Lover said:

What has he done to show he's improved? He did well against players who aren't on a roster anymore. Then did awful against 2nd string guys and dropped a TD pass after we heard all about how much better his hands are.

This is always your go to. Idk why but you seem to think coaches are never wrong and it's weird. If Quinn was never wrong we'd have won in 16' man.

You took a position and dug in and it’s blinded you from his obvious improvement.

And yes, coaches make mistakes, but not nearly as many as posters do. 

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Just now, Vandy said:

You took a position and dug in and it’s blinded you from his obvious improvement.

And yes, coaches make mistakes, but not nearly as many as posters do. 

I've already admitted he has improved from his rookie year. But to say he's a possible starter is ridiculous. Even saying he runs physically is a stretch. He never moves the pile or falls forward. He stiff arms guys as he runs out of bounds lol.

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8 minutes ago, TD_Lover said:

What has he done to show he's improved? He did well against players who aren't on a roster anymore. Then did awful against 2nd string guys and dropped a TD pass after we heard all about how much better his hands are.

This is always your go to. Idk why but you seem to think coaches are never wrong and it's weird. If Quinn was never wrong we'd have won in 16' man.

Lol.   Don’t think any coach is perfect (although Belicheck and Saban are close) but I do know DQ knows waaaaay more about his roster than you do - and that’s not a slap at you because he knows way more than me as well.

We see preseason games and limited touches.  Coaches see three hours of practice time, watching tape of practices, see the workouts, the character etc.

Quinn commented  specifically on latest podcast about Brian Hill for a few minutes about what he has done in off-season and the improvements he made - you see a dropped pass in EZ and you think you know something.

You don’t see enough to have an informed opinion.

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3 minutes ago, TD_Lover said:

I've already admitted he has improved from his rookie year. But to say he's a possible starter is ridiculous. Even saying he runs physically is a stretch. He never moves the pile or falls forward. He stiff arms guys as he runs out of bounds lol.

Who is saying he’s a possible starter in here?  I sure haven’t even hinted at that, as I think Freeman is going to have a huge  season.

Hill obviously improved enough to make the 53. 

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1 minute ago, g-dawg said:

Lol.   Don’t think any coach is perfect (although Belicheck and Saban are close) but I do know he knows waaaaay more about his roster than you do - and that’s not a slap at you because he knows way more than me as well.

We see preseason games and limited touches.  Coaches see three hours of practice time, watching tape of practices, see the workouts, the character etc.

Quinn commented  specifically on latest podcast about Brian Hill for a few minutes about what he has done in off-season and the improvements he made - you see a dropped pass in EZ and you think you know something.

You don’t see enough to have an informed opinion.

Obviously they see a lot more than us but I'd hope they put more stock in games than practice. Hopefully he proves me wrong during the season but I don't see it.

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He’s good for depth, and that’s about it.

Dan Quinn is obviously vested in Brian Hill because he drafted him. I get that, but let’s not act like we couldn’t find another back with his traits IF he was snatched up from PS.

Right now, Brian Hill is not starting for most teams in the NFL. He is decent for depth and possibly spot starts here and there. I’m cool with that.

Just because he finally started figuring it out doesn’t mean he should be our future starter if Free continues to fight injury problems.

Since he is still a Falcon, I will root for him to continue to improve. 

Ultimately, I hope he makes me feel stupid I even questioned his ability and he balls out this year.

But as of now...he is still expendable.

Edited by Dungeon Family

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4 minutes ago, TD_Lover said:

Your guy dawg said possible starter next year.

Said he could compete for starter if Freeman is gone.  Also said we could draft another RB as well.   Whoever starts will be part of a tandem anyway so you really just have to be top 2 to be significant.   Good chance for Hill to be that.

Looking at the cap and Freeman injury history - I give it 50% chance we cut Free.   Now if Free becomes top 5 RB again, we will keep him - but really good chance he gone.   Would save salary cap money.

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7 hours ago, Hurry_Up_And_Buy said:

It is definitely a head-scratcher I'll give you that. TBJ def had some spark but the Falcon way that I'm used to seeing is one in which they pay "the big dogs" and then stop looking at real competition at that position altogether. You see it time and time again here: Pay big time QB, NEVER drafted or sign any real competition at his position again. Look for NOBODY who can go beyond his production for less cost. Stay pat,  pay the man, pray to God the check makes him wanna stay. Sound familiar? 

This only just recently turned around with our drafting of Ridley which i was personally against but turnt out to be a winner. Otherwise: Pay Trufant but NEVER FIND GREATER TALENT THAN HIM. Pay Freeman but NEVER DRAFT OR PICK-UP A HIGHLY PRODUCTIVE BACK THAT COSTS HALF THE AMOUNT. Notice a pattern here. We JUST paid Grady, do you really think we'll draft a guy like Michael Dogbe in the 7th round as ANOTHER late round steal who I guarantee will be a starter for AZ by his second year? NOPE.

It's just not the Falcon way. We pay talent and we coach talent up. What we don't do is actually fully utilise that coached up talent. And what we definitely don't do is save money finding guys that will make our starters feel bad about how well we're paying them! Cuz THAT is NOT the Falcon Way sir! We will overpay our Trufants & Beasleys before we will admit that there's better or equal production to be had out there for half the cost.

Washington Redskins cut that back Perrine yesterday. That guy runs JUST LIKE MICHAEL TURNER! We could easily fit him in the system that'll be ran here and get just as much production that at very least Ito Smith is gonna give us for a fraction of the price. Will we do it? NOPE. (I guess it must be a potential disruption to "team chemistry"). Heck, the light skin guy Denver picked up last year UNDRAFTED same thing. TBJ who def should have made the roster if Barner can. Same thing.

We pay our stars but we also OVERPAY our stars as a habit in this franchise and not only that once we pay them we either overlook the lesser known guy who's just as productive or. never allow competition to truly flourish amongst the ones altogether. It's crazy once you begin to notice the pattern. And this is something that has only began to truly change recently with DQ & the departed GM Pioli. 

We also don't make heartbreaking yet highly effective trades in certain key years. We stand pat and hope for decent compensation picks that are usually spent trading up to draft someone who may or may not make the roster. Imagine trading Beasley this year for a real All-Pro corner who makes less than Trufant. Wise decision? Indisputably. Start Larkin for 16 games he'll get you at least 6-7+ sacks through the entire season. Real decision? NOPE. We shackle ourselves to our star players, undervalue our actually equally-talented role-players, overpay stars, underpay talented potential stars and then wonder why WE ARE JUST NOW FIGURING OUT THIS STUFF IN DIMITRIOFF'S 13TH OR 14TH YEAR??

what you want to burn a 1st the pick to.compete with Matt? Lol. Wtf do we need competition at QB1? There are like 5 guys that can do what he does and none are cheaper. Dude and Perrine is not.Michael Turner. Nobody cuts Michael Turner. I mean dayum what a bunch of old.cods wallup.

We've brought in 2nd,4th, and 6th end talent at cb. We've drafted Ito, Ollison. 

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It is not that complicated...

Hill will be used in those plays that were build for Coleman. He will be utilized in special plays.

Freeman still risks an injury, so you are buying insurance in case Free is injured again. All of these players will be used in some fashion. Freeman and Ito will be the main RB’s, and the other 3 will be used in short yards, returner, and plays that might fit Hill’s strength. 

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