MSalmon

A real Matt Ryan Discussion: not homer based

626 posts in this topic

I was just googling this am and I hadn’t realized just how great Matt Ryan really is. We often mistakenly put him in same class as BRADY, Brees, rivers, and Eli. That’s a false narrative. For one, Brees and BRADY are in over 40 club. Eli andr rivers are a full four years older than Matt. And let’s not forget Rodgers is ahead of Matt and, frankly, Matt has surpassed Rodgers in stars and head 2 head competitions 

look at this link:

https://www.footballperspective.com/matt-ryan-is-building-a-hall-of-fame-career/

Here’s the highlights:

“The best quarterback drafted in ’06, by far, was Jay Cutler.
There are no quarterbacks of note from 2007, the year JaMarcus Russell and Brady Quinn were first round picks.
Ryan was drafted in 2008, as was Joe Flacco.
In 2009, we have Matthew Stafford and Mark Sanchez.
In 2010, it’s Sam Bradford and nothing else.
In 2011, we get Cam Newton and Andy Dalton. We probably should have seen Russell Wilson, and Andrew Luck nearly declared this year but did not.”

let that sink in. If Matt is so “average” how come since 04 we haven’t had that type of QB before Matt? Also look after Matt: newton and dalton and even luck can’t hold Matt’s jock in terms of consistent high level of play which is what QB is really all about.

We bust on Matt for 1 MVP, 1 all pro and 4 pro bowls. But are pro bowls or even all pro really more than popularity contests anymore? And, also, are not Brees and even BRADY to a point really just making it on name value now?

brady hasn’t really been a pro bowler in years. Brees? Sorta.

Now let’s establish   one reality: non-homerism is not a factor. BRADY is the GOAT. You can’t touch 6 SB rings and 4 SB MVPs. But is it Belichick? Or is it BRADY? Or a bit of both? Matt has had two HCs, BRADY one.  Brees sucked until Sean Peyton. BRADY has had consistent OCs . Matt has had the following pattern of OC continuity—none really:

1) mularkey, power I. Smash mouth 

2) Koetter, Air coreyell. Get smacked whole long routes develop 

3) Kyle. Great fit, but little goal line and short yardage run support. Also get smacked a lot. Should have had SB

4) Sark, can we forget him?

5) back to Koetter. 

Thats a lot of change for a QB, yet he keeps on ticking, passed Peyton Manning (another guy with coaching continuity) for most yards in first 11 years.

How many SBs does Matt have if Belichick is his coach? How many SBs and passing records does Matt have in a more cerebral offense like Sean Peyton’s?

what if Kyle Shanahan comes back and we dump koetter and Kyle spends 5-6 years as OC?

thoughts? It’s pretty astounding that a top ten all time QB with possible 7-10 years left in him (let’s not forget durability is big on HOF votes) has so quietly progressed.

better yet, beyond Wilson (great QB) , Goff (meh) and wentz (can’t stay healthy) is really in the same stratosphere as Matt? The fading and malcontent Rodgers?

btw Matt is 4-6 in playoffs and has the third highest all time playoff QBR and rating behind only Bart Starr and Kurt Warner ! So don’t come with BS, that he chokes!

thoughts? @Vandy

no homerism.

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Anyone who actually knows football knows Matt Ryan is a **** good QB. Problem is, Atlanta has such a history of failure that it isn’t exciting to talk about Atlanta, so he doesn’t get credit from the media nearly as much as he should. It would take SuperBowl wins to place him into the conversations of respect that he already deserves. It’s a huge monkey on his back that has been passed down through the generations of Atlanta teams. 

And yes, if Belichick is his coach he would have won at least two SuperBowls by now. Brady is good, no doubt about that, but Belichick gives NE their success more than Brady does. In my opinion, Matt Ryan has given ATL success more than the coaches have. 

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If you don't think Ryan is a great QB by now, you have no idea what you're talking about.

You want to put him top 10 instead of top 5, don't care.

You want to rank the youngsters ahead him, again, don't care.

You want to rank  vets ahead of him, guess what?

 

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4 minutes ago, falconidae said:

If you don't think Ryan is a great QB by now, you have no idea what you're talking about.

You want to put him top 10 instead of top 5, don't care.

You want to rank the youngsters ahead him, again, don't care.

You want to rank  vets ahead of him, guess what?

 

Agree

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5 minutes ago, Trick Montalban said:

Anyone who actually knows football knows Matt Ryan is a **** good QB. Problem is, Atlanta has such a history of failure that it isn’t exciting to talk about Atlanta, so he doesn’t get credit from the media nearly as much as he should. It would take SuperBowl wins to place him into the conversations of respect that he already deserves. It’s a huge monkey on his back that has been passed down through the generations of Atlanta teams. 

And yes, if Belichick is his coach he would have won at least two SuperBowls by now. Brady is good, no doubt about that, but Belichick gives NE their success more than Brady does. In my opinion, Matt Ryan has given ATL success more than the coaches have. 

Well put. 

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Just now, NeonDeion said:

Swap Matt with Brady for the same pick and alternate universe where Matt is paired with BB. Bet he has the same number of rings 

I think that too. It would suck to see Matt go to say pats to finally win one

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Matt needs two rings, rings change the narrative. It’s the only reason why Dan Marino isn’t called the 2nd/3rd greatest QB of all-time.

If/When he gets those, he’ll be in conversation as a Top 5 all-time QB ahead of Farve, Rodgers, Marino, Brees and Elway.

But like it or not, rings do matter. The frustrating thing is, he should already have two. Think about that!

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I dont believe we can really know how good Ryan is/can be.. And thats reality. Will Ryan ever have a Oline that he can actually pass from, probably not if he remains in Atlanta. Idk why, but we are cursed at oline and passrush. I dont have the solution at this point, weve tried about everything i can think of :shrug:

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Turns out , the abbreviation of don't give a #### is filtered to "Dont care", which is not nearly as emphatic. Have to remember that.

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3 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Matt needs two rings, rings change the narrative. It’s the only reason why Marino isn’t called the 2nd/3rd greatest QB of all-time.

If/When he gets those, he’ll be in conversation as a Top 5 all-time QB ahead of Farve, Rodgers, Marino, Brees and Elway.

But like it or not, rings matter. The frustrating thing is, he should already have two. Think about that!

I'd rather not, because it still p***** me off. We could have beaten the Ravens in the SB if that holding on Roddy was called in the NFCC game and we should have beaten the Pats.

You still have a good point though.

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44 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

I was just googling this am and I hadn’t realized just how great Matt Ryan really is. We often mistakenly put him in same class as BRADY, Brees, rivers, and Eli. That’s a false narrative. For one, Brees and BRADY are in over 40 club. Eli andr rivers are a full four years older than Matt. And let’s not forget Rodgers is ahead of Matt and, frankly, Matt has surpassed Rodgers in stars and head 2 head competitions 

look at this link:

https://www.footballperspective.com/matt-ryan-is-building-a-hall-of-fame-career/

Here’s the highlights:

“The best quarterback drafted in ’06, by far, was Jay Cutler.
There are no quarterbacks of note from 2007, the year JaMarcus Russell and Brady Quinn were first round picks.
Ryan was drafted in 2008, as was Joe Flacco.
In 2009, we have Matthew Stafford and Mark Sanchez.
In 2010, it’s Sam Bradford and nothing else.
In 2011, we get Cam Newton and Andy Dalton. We probably should have seen Russell Wilson, and Andrew Luck nearly declared this year but did not.”

let that sink in. If Matt is so “average” how come since 04 we haven’t had that type of QB before Matt? Also look after Matt: newton and dalton and even luck can’t hold Matt’s jock in terms of consistent high level of play which is what QB is really all about.

We bust on Matt for 1 MVP, 1 all pro and 4 pro bowls. But are pro bowls or even all pro really more than popularity contests anymore? And, also, are not Brees and even BRADY to a point really just making it on name value now?

brady hasn’t really been a pro bowler in years. Brees? Sorta.

Now let’s establish   one reality: non-homerism is not a factor. BRADY is the GOAT. You can’t touch 6 SB rings and 4 SB MVPs. But is it Belichick? Or is it BRADY? Or a bit of both? Matt has had two HCs, BRADY one.  Brees sucked until Sean Peyton. BRADY has had consistent OCs . Matt has had the following pattern of OC continuity—none really:

1) mularkey, power I. Smash mouth 

2) Koetter, Air coreyell. Get smacked whole long routes develop 

3) Kyle. Great fit, but little goal line and short yardage run support. Also get smacked a lot. Should have had SB

4) Sark, can we forget him?

5) back to Koetter. 

Thats a lot of change for a QB, yet he keeps on ticking, passed Peyton Manning (another guy with coaching continuity) for most yards in first 11 years.

How many SBs does Matt have if Belichick is his coach? How many SBs and passing records does Matt have in a more cerebral offense like Sean Peyton’s?

what if Kyle Shanahan comes back and we dump koetter and Kyle spends 5-6 years as OC?

thoughts? It’s pretty astounding that a top ten all time QB with possible 7-10 years left in him (let’s not forget durability is big on HOF votes) has so quietly progressed.

better yet, beyond Wilson (great QB) , Goff (meh) and wentz (can’t stay healthy) is really in the same stratosphere as Matt? The fading and malcontent Rodgers?

btw Matt is 4-6 in playoffs and has the third highest all time playoff QBR and rating behind only Bart Starr and Kurt Warner ! So don’t come with BS, that he chokes!

thoughts? @Vandy

no homerism.

I think Tom Brady had like 4 OC's actually.

egoprime II likes this

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12 minutes ago, BoomGoesTheDynamite said:

I'd rather not, because it still p***** me off. We could have beaten the Ravens in the SB if that holding on Roddy was called in the NFCC game and we should have beaten the Pats.

You still have a good point though.

Sorry bro, I should have been more sensitive to the fact bringing that up reminds all of us we have PTSD from those two experiences.:ninja:

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11 minutes ago, BoomGoesTheDynamite said:

I'd rather not, because it still p***** me off. We could have beaten the Ravens in the SB if that holding on Roddy was called in the NFCC game and we should have beaten the Pats.

You still have a good point though.

Ryan got crushed because Clabo missed a block late in that  game. He sprained his non throwing shoulder. Probably wouldn't have been able to play if there had been a next game.

Need to go back a little earlier, last regular season game, where Smitty let Abe play and he suffered a high ankle sprain & HD tripping with a clear path to the end zone. HD scores there, no need for late game heroics, and both Abe and Ryan are healthy. Then, they kick Baltimore's butt.

Pretty sure Clabo missing that block is what got him cut.

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25 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Matt needs two rings, rings change the narrative. It’s the only reason why Dan Marino isn’t called the 2nd/3rd greatest QB of all-time.

If/When he gets those, he’ll be in conversation as a Top 5 all-time QB ahead of Farve, Rodgers, Marino, Brees and Elway.

But like it or not, rings do matter. The frustrating thing is, he should already have two. Think about that!

I do think he’s HOF regardless. The MVP and numbers will get him there, if he gets 60k yards and close to 500 tds

which he should. He gets a ring, he’s a shoo-in

gazoo, Vandy and Ergo Proxy like this

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2 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

Same Erhardt/Perkins system entire career. I pointed that out

Oh, I'm sorry. You're right.

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10 minutes ago, falconidae said:

Ryan got crushed because Clabo missed a block late in that  game. He sprained his non throwing shoulder. Probably wouldn't have been able to play if there had been a next game.

Need to go back a little earlier, last regular season game, where Smitty let Abe play and he suffered a high ankle sprain & HD tripping with a clear path to the end zone. HD scores there, no need for late game heroics, and both Abe and Ryan are healthy. Then, they kick Baltimore's butt.

Pretty sure Clabo missing that block is what got him cut.

Good grief I forgot about both of those! 

This is not a good way to start the morning :(:angry:

 

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36 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Matt needs two rings, rings change the narrative. It’s the only reason why Dan Marino isn’t called the 2nd/3rd greatest QB of all-time.

If/When he gets those, he’ll be in conversation as a Top 5 all-time QB ahead of Farve, Rodgers, Marino, Brees and Elway.

But like it or not, rings do matter. The frustrating thing is, he should already have two. Think about that!

2008 was Matt Ryan’s rookie season and lost on the road by 6 points to a team who went to the Super Bowl, and his 2 rings should have been 2012 and 2016. All 4 year cycles.

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32 minutes ago, Falc0n said:

I think Tom Brady had like 4 OC's actually.

4 OC’s in almost 20 years doesn’t compare to 4 OC’s in 10 years.

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3 minutes ago, mqg96 said:

2008 was Matt Ryan’s rookie season and lost on the road by 6 points to a team who went to the Super Bowl, and his 2 rings should have been 2012 and 2016. All 4 year cycles.

When the moon is in the seventh house, and Jupiter aligns with Mars...

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1 minute ago, mqg96 said:

4 OC’s in almost 20 years doesn’t compare to 4 OC’s in 10 years.

Yeah, not denying that. I know 100% that MR2 is the better QB and no one can change my mind about that. But originally he said Tom Brady had 1 OC.

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