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Odds Quinn 1st Coach Fired In 2019


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6 minutes ago, Godzilla1985 said:

Nah man I am done with Quinn. I bought into his BS and now I’m done.

This is where we’ll find out what kind of coach he really is. Easy to look like a good coach when things are humming, great coaches get their teams to respond to adversity. 

He failed us in SB 51, his head coaching career depends on turning this season around.

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1 hour ago, Vandy said:

This is where we’ll find out what kind of coach he really is. Easy to look like a good coach when things are humming, great coaches get their teams to respond to adversity. 

He failed us in SB 51, his head coaching career depends on turning this season around.

I don’t believe he’s turning it around. Team looks very bad. They look worse than the 2013 team IMO. I already acknowledged last week that you were right about Smitty. He would be winning with this roster 

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On 8/16/2019 at 9:33 AM, TheFatboi said:

You haven’t been watching then. I’ve seen improvements on the defense. The offense is gonna ball. 

This is the thing that keeps gnawing at me.  That huge TD early -- they had 4 players around the receiver.  Trufant took a terrible angle and washed Rico out of the play.  No contain.  Overpursuit.  Too aggressive, which ends up looking soft because nobody ends up making the tackle.

I'm not saying Quinn ain't the problem.  I am saying that particular sort of thing isn't on Quinn.  And the more I look at this team, they honestly look like they've quit on their coach.  And I have some thoughts about that, many of which may be unpopular, but here goes.

I mentioned in another thread, but this same core group of players was here in 2014. There were others here, and there are others here now who weren't then.  But Ryan, Julio, Trufant, Freeman, Matthews -- all those guys were here.  That's, in large part, our veteran leadership.  They set the tone.  If they won't do, then nobody will do, because they set the example.  And I'm honestly starting to wonder whether the whole "Julio will be a Falcon for life" and "we're going to take care of Matt" and so forth from Blank isn't, consciously or subconsciously, setting in to where they don't have to care, and so they don't care.  

Pride is a funny thing.  It motivates some people.  I bet it motivates Takk.  It motivated Ray Lewis.  It motivated guys like Favre and Elway.  But for some, winning is great, but losing just isn't so bad.  And that's the vibe I get from this team, culturally.  Winning is fun, but losing isn't awful.  They don't hate losing enough.  Some may -- I think Julio might.  Maybe Ryan does, but you wouldn't know it from how he's playing this season.  

This brings me to why I posted this in response to what you said -- I DO see improvements.  I do see better outside contain.  I do see an emphasis on penalties (but then Mack has to belly flop on a safety for 15 yards).  I do see them working on correcting errors.  I see the changes schematically.  What I don't see is very many players buying into it.  And at some point, if you have a team that is not self-motivated, it's cancerous.

I have said a lot of times Matt Ryan likes to be coached hard.  Well, he doesn't LIKE it, but he RESPONDS to it.  Kyle Shanahan brought out the best in him not because Kyle is a genius, but because he made Matt do things that he didn't want to do, because they made him a better player.  Now, the obvious answer is "get a coach who will push him."  Except we just hired the opposite of that.  And the reality is, if Matt isn't self motivated to improve his game by doing things he doesn't like doing, it really doesn't matter, because he's the guy who sets the tone for this team, and everyone else responds to his example.  So if it ain't him, someone else has to step up, and I don't see that happening.

I think this is a cultural issue.  Quinn knows how to coach.  Koetter knows how to coach.  The NFL hasn't passed them by.  But it's entirely possible we have the wrong core of players to respond to any coach for very long.  That would explain why we always have the same thing -- a couple of good years, then a slide.

The players have to fix this.  Fire Quinn.  Fire Koetter.  Fire TD.  It won't matter after those first few years if this culture of apathy sets in again.  And it always does, so color me pessimistic.  The coach might be A problem, but he isn't THE problem.

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10 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

This is the thing that keeps gnawing at me.  That huge TD early -- they had 4 players around the receiver.  Trufant took a terrible angle and washed Rico out of the play.  No contain.  Overpursuit.  Too aggressive, which ends up looking soft because nobody ends up making the tackle.

I'm not saying Quinn ain't the problem.  I am saying that particular sort of thing isn't on Quinn.  And the more I look at this team, they honestly look like they've quit on their coach.  And I have some thoughts about that, many of which may be unpopular, but here goes.

I mentioned in another thread, but this same core group of players was here in 2014. There were others here, and there are others here now who weren't then.  But Ryan, Julio, Trufant, Freeman, Matthews -- all those guys were here.  That's, in large part, our veteran leadership.  They set the tone.  If they won't do, then nobody will do, because they set the example.  And I'm honestly starting to wonder whether the whole "Julio will be a Falcon for life" and "we're going to take care of Matt" and so forth from Blank isn't, consciously or subconsciously, setting in to where they don't have to care, and so they don't care.  

Pride is a funny thing.  It motivates some people.  I bet it motivates Takk.  It motivated Ray Lewis.  It motivated guys like Favre and Elway.  But for some, winning is great, but losing just isn't so bad.  And that's the vibe I get from this team, culturally.  Winning is fun, but losing isn't awful.  They don't hate losing enough.  Some may -- I think Julio might.  Maybe Ryan does, but you wouldn't know it from how he's playing this season.  

This brings me to why I posted this in response to what you said -- I DO see improvements.  I do see better outside contain.  I do see an emphasis on penalties (but then Mack has to belly flop on a safety for 15 yards).  I do see them working on correcting errors.  I see the changes schematically.  What I don't see is very many players buying into it.  And at some point, if you have a team that is not self-motivated, it's cancerous.

I have said a lot of times Matt Ryan likes to be coached hard.  Well, he doesn't LIKE it, but he RESPONDS to it.  Kyle Shanahan brought out the best in him not because Kyle is a genius, but because he made Matt do things that he didn't want to do, because they made him a better player.  Now, the obvious answer is "get a coach who will push him."  Except we just hired the opposite of that.  And the reality is, if Matt isn't self motivated to improve his game by doing things he doesn't like doing, it really doesn't matter, because he's the guy who sets the tone for this team, and everyone else responds to his example.  So if it ain't him, someone else has to step up, and I don't see that happening.

I think this is a cultural issue.  Quinn knows how to coach.  Koetter knows how to coach.  The NFL hasn't passed them by.  But it's entirely possible we have the wrong core of players to respond to any coach for very long.  That would explain why we always have the same thing -- a couple of good years, then a slide.

The players have to fix this.  Fire Quinn.  Fire Koetter.  Fire TD.  It won't matter after those first few years if this culture of apathy sets in again.  And it always does, so color me pessimistic.  The coach might be A problem, but he isn't THE problem.

I have mixed feelings on this post. First off, it’s a great post. Very insightful. I agree with you 100% that it looks like the players have quit on Quinn. But to me, I believe Quinn is the biggest problem. The reality check for me has been watching our team look lost, soft, not bought in, at times not even playing that hard. And as I watch the Panthers and Saints, play VERY hard after losing their starting QB’s. That says a lot about Payton and Rivera. They clearly still have their rosters bought in. I don’t think Quinn does anymore. I don’t think the saints or Panthers have any more or less talent on their rosters than the Falcons. Yet the coaches have their rosters playing well with a backup QB. 

We officially have the worst coach in the NFC south. 

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1 minute ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

I have mixed feelings on this post. First off, it’s a great post. Very insightful. I agree with you 100% that it looks like the players have quit on Quinn. But to me, I believe Quinn is the biggest problem. The reality check for me has been watching our team look lost, soft, not bought in, at times not even playing that hard. And ask watching the Panthers and Saints, play VERY hard after losing their starting QB’s. That says a lot about Payton and Rivera. They clearly still have their rosters bought in. I don’t think Quinn does anymore. I don’t think the saints or Panthers have any more or less talent on their rosters than the Falcons. Yet the coaches have their rosters playing well with a backup QB. 

We officially have the worst coach in the NFC south. 

I guess my only counterpoint is this -- maybe it isn't the coaches.  Maybe it's the rosters.

Again, I'm not absolving Quinn and Koetter of anything here.  But I've seen this movie before.  All year, 2014, "they're going to fire Mike Smith if he doesn't turn this around."

To a man, they all said they love their coach and would run through brick walls for him.  But they didn't.  This might be a coaching problem, but I think at its core, it's a cultural problem, and one that pre-dates Dan Quinn.

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On 8/15/2019 at 8:43 AM, Draftnut57 said:

Quinn will be here for a long time,, He has gotten it done this off season,, Best one in my Falcon Fan life of 46 years,,  Other than Dan Reeves who took the cheapest team in SB history to the SB. That IMO will never happen again,, Just goes to show you,, it's not just having a lot of great talent, It's more the right philosophy than having a boat load of great players... But in today's NFL.. You have to have both.. No doubt, but I think we do have the team to make a run for the Title. And the right HC and OC , DC...

We are staring 3-13 in the face at this point. If DQ can never beat an AFC team his team will NEVER win a SB.

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1 minute ago, JDaveG said:

I guess my only counterpoint is this -- maybe it isn't the coaches.  Maybe it's the rosters.

Again, I'm not absolving Quinn and Koetter of anything here.  But I've seen this movie before.  All year, 2014, "they're going to fire Mike Smith if he doesn't turn this around."

To a man, they all said they love their coach and would run through brick walls for him.  But they didn't.  This might be a coaching problem, but I think at its core, it's a cultural problem, and one that pre-dates Dan Quinn.

You could be right. Ryan and Julio certainly are untouchable in this organization and they clearly know it. 

How do you fix something like that though?

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2 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

You could be right. Ryan and Julio certainly are untouchable in this organization and they clearly know it. 

How do you fix something like that though?

I don't know.  You can't fire the owner.  But it would be great if someone could tell him "it's cool that you have your players' backs, but I might have to bench one of these guys if he isn't performing, so pretty please, let me handle the players."

It would be greater if he'd listen.

But even there, I don't know if that's the problem.  It could just be we have too many of the wrong players.  Maybe we go get a couple of hard *** vets to come in and push these guys.  Get on them in practice and in the locker room.  Hold them accountable.

Honestly, I don't know.

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18 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

This is the thing that keeps gnawing at me.  That huge TD early -- they had 4 players around the receiver.  Trufant took a terrible angle and washed Rico out of the play.  No contain.  Overpursuit.  Too aggressive, which ends up looking soft because nobody ends up making the tackle.

I'm not saying Quinn ain't the problem.  I am saying that particular sort of thing isn't on Quinn.  And the more I look at this team, they honestly look like they've quit on their coach.  And I have some thoughts about that, many of which may be unpopular, but here goes.

I mentioned in another thread, but this same core group of players was here in 2014. There were others here, and there are others here now who weren't then.  But Ryan, Julio, Trufant, Freeman, Matthews -- all those guys were here.  That's, in large part, our veteran leadership.  They set the tone.  If they won't do, then nobody will do, because they set the example.  And I'm honestly starting to wonder whether the whole "Julio will be a Falcon for life" and "we're going to take care of Matt" and so forth from Blank isn't, consciously or subconsciously, setting in to where they don't have to care, and so they don't care.  

Pride is a funny thing.  It motivates some people.  I bet it motivates Takk.  It motivated Ray Lewis.  It motivated guys like Favre and Elway.  But for some, winning is great, but losing just isn't so bad.  And that's the vibe I get from this team, culturally.  Winning is fun, but losing isn't awful.  They don't hate losing enough.  Some may -- I think Julio might.  Maybe Ryan does, but you wouldn't know it from how he's playing this season.  

This brings me to why I posted this in response to what you said -- I DO see improvements.  I do see better outside contain.  I do see an emphasis on penalties (but then Mack has to belly flop on a safety for 15 yards).  I do see them working on correcting errors.  I see the changes schematically.  What I don't see is very many players buying into it.  And at some point, if you have a team that is not self-motivated, it's cancerous.

I have said a lot of times Matt Ryan likes to be coached hard.  Well, he doesn't LIKE it, but he RESPONDS to it.  Kyle Shanahan brought out the best in him not because Kyle is a genius, but because he made Matt do things that he didn't want to do, because they made him a better player.  Now, the obvious answer is "get a coach who will push him."  Except we just hired the opposite of that.  And the reality is, if Matt isn't self motivated to improve his game by doing things he doesn't like doing, it really doesn't matter, because he's the guy who sets the tone for this team, and everyone else responds to his example.  So if it ain't him, someone else has to step up, and I don't see that happening.

I think this is a cultural issue.  Quinn knows how to coach.  Koetter knows how to coach.  The NFL hasn't passed them by.  But it's entirely possible we have the wrong core of players to respond to any coach for very long.  That would explain why we always have the same thing -- a couple of good years, then a slide.

The players have to fix this.  Fire Quinn.  Fire Koetter.  Fire TD.  It won't matter after those first few years if this culture of apathy sets in again.  And it always does, so color me pessimistic.  The coach might be A problem, but he isn't THE problem.

Pin this post.  Deserves HOF consideration.

And to those wondering if Quinn is the first coach fired...I’m wondering if he physically survives the year.  He looks ill.  Dude needs to take a few personal days.  Step back and reassess.  

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Just now, JDaveG said:

I don't know.  You can't fire the owner.  But it would be great if someone could tell him "it's cool that you have your players' backs, but I might have to bench one of these guys if he isn't performing, so pretty please, let me handle the players."

It would be greater if he'd listen.

But even there, I don't know if that's the problem.  It could just be we have too many of the wrong players.  Maybe we go get a couple of hard *** vets to come in and push these guys.  Get on them in practice and in the locker room.  Hold them accountable.

Honestly, I don't know.

To me, we need to a guy like Mike Zimmer. A guy who plays no favorites and holds everyone accountable. He wasn’t afraid to pull the trigger on Keenum even though they went to the NFCCG with him at QB. But, Blank needs to let his next coach be in charge and take a huge step back. He needs to support his coaches decisions, even the toughest ones 

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Just now, FalconsIn2020 said:

Pin this post.  Deserves HOF consideration.

And to those wondering if Quinn is the first coach fired...I’m wondering if he physically survives the year.  He looks ill.  Dude needs to take a few personal days.  Step back and reassess.  

This is total speculation on my end, but having worked in a few toxic work environments over the years, that would make sense.  If the rest of my post is right, and Quinn is on the hot seat trying to motivate players who don't want to play, that's the sort of thing that gives a man knots in his stomach on a daily basis.

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1 minute ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

To me, we need to a guy like Mike Zimmer. A guy who plays no favorites and holds everyone accountable. He wasn’t afraid to pull the trigger on Keenum even though they went to the NFCCG with him at QB. But, Blank needs to let his next coach be in charge and take a huge step back. He needs to support his coaches decisions, even the toughest ones 

Yep.  The best coaches in NFL history move on too early instead of too late.

It's why I was fine getting rid of Roddy White.  Bellichick does it.  Walsh did it.  You make the hard decisions before you need to.  

Even Matt Bryant, even though it didn't work out.  Quinn has shown a willingness to do it.  But it seems to me he's fighting against something he can't beat.  The owner always gets the final say.

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1 minute ago, JDaveG said:

This is total speculation on my end, but having worked in a few toxic work environments over the years, that would make sense.  If the rest of my post is right, and Quinn is on the hot seat trying to motivate players who don't want to play, that's the sort of thing that gives a man knots in his stomach on a daily basis.

I’ve always been in favor of high roster turnover.  Keeps the message fresh.  Keep your cure 4-5 guys and churn the rest.  It’s why ya keeping every B+ player and paying max money to do so was a concern

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1 minute ago, JDaveG said:

Yep.  The best coaches in NFL history move on too early instead of too late.

It's why I was fine getting rid of Roddy White.  Bellichick does it.  Walsh did it.  You make the hard decisions before you need to.  

Even Matt Bryant, even though it didn't work out.  Quinn has shown a willingness to do it.  But it seems to me he's fighting against something he can't beat.  The owner always gets the final say.

Yep and the loyalty from that owner could be what’s sealed Quinn’s fate....yeesh. 

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2 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

Yep and the loyalty from that owner could be what’s sealed Quinn’s fate....yeesh. 

At some point the owner has to have loyalty to the organization, not just the players.  It's fine to say "we're going to take care of our players," but when that means throwing the coach under the bus every 5 years or so, it's toxic.

It also makes you look more like a jock sniffer with starry eyes and hero worship than someone who is seriously concerned about people within his organization.  I don't think that's who Arthur Blank wants to be, but it is who he appears to be.  And I so badly want to be wrong about that, but man, the coach always seems to be on the hot seat, and meanwhile the players are having their necks rubbed in the media on the regular.

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7 minutes ago, JDaveG said:

At some point the owner has to have loyalty to the organization, not just the players.  It's fine to say "we're going to take care of our players," but when that means throwing the coach under the bus every 5 years or so, it's toxic.

It also makes you look more like a jock sniffer with starry eyes and hero worship than someone who is seriously concerned about people within his organization.  I don't think that's who Arthur Blank wants to be, but it is who he appears to be.  And I so badly want to be wrong about that, but man, the coach always seems to be on the hot seat, and meanwhile the players are having their necks rubbed in the media on the regular.

I think AB is very patient but DQ has some major issues now. I haven’t seen a Falcons team this bad in years.

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