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Not X's and O's, but a picture I saw on the Vikings page regarding their signing of Josh Doctson. Naturally, it's a pic including our very own Isaiah Oliver: I know we have some fans who hav

Players, not plays.  Brilliant schemes are great, but football is still elemental.  You still gotta be able to whip the man in front of you.

Makes me think of the hit Debo put down against Detroit. If it were Debo and he makes the catch that's what we see.

2 minutes ago, vel said:

This is why I loved the 4-4 formation. It's rarely used formally, but that's essentially what the 4-3 Under is when the SS moves in the box. You need a freak SS and one freak LB. We have both. From there, it's all about personnel. You can put Kazee at "LB" and Debo, Campbell, and Neal as the other three "LBs" or second level defenders. You can still have four down linemen and your secondary is Tru, Oliver, and Rico. Built for teams who don't have the personnel to take advantage of throws beyond 15 yards downfield with multiple weapons and puts a ton of speed/athleticism in the middle of the field and you have 8 options to choose from to send pressure. 

I'd rather Foye be in than Kazee tbh

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5 minutes ago, vel said:

That's if you want more true LB. If you run up on a set with added WRs, Kazee gives you the coverage. HeIl, you could even put Campbell "down" and put Foye on the second level. 

If Quinn really wanted to imagine all the different things we could put on tape this year...

3-4

4-3

5-2

4-4 with Kazee then another with Foye

Kazee at FS with Rico at nickelback

Debo with Foye and Campbell edge rushing all game

Debo with Campbell and Foye spelling them

So. Many. Possibilites. 

@Vandy calm me down before I get excited 

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9 minutes ago, vel said:

This is why I loved the 4-4 formation. It's rarely used formally, but that's essentially what the 4-3 Under is when the SS moves in the box. You need a freak SS and one freak LB. We have both. From there, it's all about personnel. You can put Kazee at "LB" and Debo, Campbell, and Neal as the other three "LBs" or second level defenders. You can still have four down linemen and your secondary is Tru, Oliver, and Rico. Built for teams who don't have the personnel to take advantage of throws beyond 15 yards downfield with multiple weapons and puts a ton of speed/athleticism in the middle of the field and you have 8 options to choose from to send pressure. 

Great point Vel. Neal down in box gives Quinn ability to throw a lot of different variations at the offense. 

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6 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

If Quinn really wanted to imagine all the different things we could put on tape this year...

3-4

4-3

5-2

4-4 with Kazee then another with Foye

Kazee at FS with Rico at nickelback

Debo with Foye and Campbell edge rushing all game

Debo with Campbell and Foye spelling them

So. Many. Possibilites. 

@Vandy calm me down before I get excited 

This is why you championed Foye so much last year, Sassie. The athleticism/versatility he brings.

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19 hours ago, Ergo Proxy said:

That’s what I’ve seen us running. Not 5-2.

We’ve been running some 52 as well but it’s been 5 down linemen. I’m familiar with 52 or 50 defense because that’s what we ran in high school my freshman year in San Francisco. We called it eagle d and they called me eagle meat cause I used to slice it up and I had the defense chasing me like dogs chasing some meat lol. D@mn that brought back some memories. So I’m very familiar with the 52 defense.  

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2 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Great point Vel. Neal down in box gives Quinn ability to throw a lot of different variations at the offense. 

I don't think that was the issue with Quinn.  Its the lack of a edge rush AND offenses catching up with the 4-3 under.  Seattle and Baltimore both tweaked their defenses for the same reason...

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2 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

I don't think that was the issue with Quinn.  Its the lack of a edge rush AND offenses catching up with the 4-3 under.  Seattle and Baltimore both tweaked their defenses for the same reason...

Seattle still runs a 4-3 and Baltimore has always been a 3-4. The lack of edge rushers isn't magically fixed by moving to a 3-4.

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4 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

I don't think that was the issue with Quinn.  Its the lack of a edge rush AND offenses catching up with the 4-3 under.  Seattle and Baltimore both tweaked their defenses for the same reason...

Not sure I understand your point, slicky. Can you elaborate?

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1 minute ago, Yo_Lover said:

Seattle still runs a 4-3 and Baltimore has always been a 3-4. The lack of edge rushers isn't magically fixed by moving to a 3-4.

TBH - the entire discussion of "4-3 vs. 3-4" is outdated. 

The league has evolved so quickly that the lines have blurred significantly between the two. 

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1 minute ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

TBH - the entire discussion of "4-3 vs. 3-4" is outdated. 

The league has evolved so quickly that the lines have blurred significantly between the two. 

Basically. It's just gap responsibility at this point. Plus you barely see "base" defenses. Mostly nickel.

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9 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Not sure I understand your point, slicky. Can you elaborate?

Quinn was happy with his linebackers and safety play ( outside of Riley).  He was happy with his base 4-3 with the EXCEPTION of the edge rushing.  In other words I believe the ONLY reason he is toying with the 3-4 is for that reason.  He can scheme and show different looks from his base 4-3 like has been pointed out...

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11 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

I don't think that was the issue with Quinn.  Its the lack of a edge rush AND offenses catching up with the 4-3 under.  Seattle and Baltimore both tweaked their defenses for the same reason...

Baltimore is a true 3-4 defense. Like Pitt. They came from Cleveland who was a 3-4 defense with belichik who came from a 3-4 in New York with Parcells. 

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2 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

Quinn was happy with his linebackers and safety play ( outside of Riley).  He was happy with his base 4-3 with the EXCEPTION of the edge rushing.  In other words I believe the ONLY reason he toying with the 3-4 is for that reason.  He can scheme and show different looks from his base 4-3 like has been pointed out...

I repeat 3-4 doesn't magically fix the pass rush see the Smitty years.

Also we play nickel 70% of the time so 3-4 is a mute point.

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3 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

Basically. It's just gap responsibility at this point. Plus you barely see "base" defenses. Mostly nickel.

We were in Nickel 74% of the time last year. Base 22%. 

It's a passing league. Increasingly, it's a basketball-passing league....get versatile athletes on the field and match-em up. 

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5 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

"Nickel" is our base. 

They can run a 4-2-5 nickel with a third safety also.  Since Kazee played safety last season he would be the perfect defensive back playing that 3rd defensive back position in that scheme...

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Just now, slickgadawg said:

They can run a 4-2-5 nickel with a third safety also.  Since Kazee played safety last season he would be the perfect defensive back playing that 3rd defensive back position in that scheme...

Quinn said he wanted Wilcox as the third safety. Kazee in the "third safety" role is the same as being in nickel. We gotta be able to run big nickel with a third safety to give him and the other safeties a breather otherwise its pointless. Plus big nickel is for a bigger safety to come in and help with the run as well as pass support.

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1 minute ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

We were in Nickel 74% of the time last year. Base 22%. 

It's a passing league. Increasingly, it's a basketball-passing league....get versatile athletes on the field and match-em up. 

This. It's getting to the point of "find the best guys and just run nickel"

Eventually some team is gonna start running two TE's or bring a FB back and just run down teams throats. Seattle did it for awhile. Pats did it last year vs the Chargers.

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Just now, Yo_Lover said:

This. It's getting to the point of "find the best guys and just run nickel"

Eventually some team is gonna start running two TE's or bring a FB back and just run down teams throats. Seattle did it for awhile. Pats did it last year vs the Chargers.

IF the offense is clicking like it should, no team will be able to do that to the falcons this year because they'll be too far behind to run like that.

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Just now, TheFatboi said:

Baltimore is a true 3-4 defense. Like Pitt. They came from Cleveland who was a 3-4 defense with belichik who came from a 3-4 in New York with Parcells. 

But even Baltimore isnt doing the old style 3-4 as much anymore. They had 6+ defensive backs on the field 26% of the time last year. They were in Nickel 57% of the time. Pittsburgh was almost a pure thirds split between base 3-4, nickel, and dime+. 

 

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