Ultimate X’s and O’x thread

[Ovie_Lover 29,593]

1 minute ago, slickgadawg said:

Depends on the coverage and the offensive set...

You're not gonna have a perfect gameplan to run 3-4 all day dude lol. If you can how come no one does it?

[Ovie_Lover 29,593]

2 minutes ago, vel said:

This is why I loved the 4-4 formation. It's rarely used formally, but that's essentially what the 4-3 Under is when the SS moves in the box. You need a freak SS and one freak LB. We have both. From there, it's all about personnel. You can put Kazee at "LB" and Debo, Campbell, and Neal as the other three "LBs" or second level defenders. You can still have four down linemen and your secondary is Tru, Oliver, and Rico. Built for teams who don't have the personnel to take advantage of throws beyond 15 yards downfield with multiple weapons and puts a ton of speed/athleticism in the middle of the field and you have 8 options to choose from to send pressure. 

I'd rather Foye be in than Kazee tbh

[vel 32,058]

Just now, Yo_Lover said:

I'd rather Foye be in than Kazee tbh

That's if you want more true LB. If you run up on a set with added WRs, Kazee gives you the coverage. HeIl, you could even put Campbell "down" and put Foye on the second level. 

[Ovie_Lover 29,593]

1 minute ago, vel said:

That's if you want more true LB. If you run up on a set with added WRs, Kazee gives you the coverage. HeIl, you could even put Campbell "down" and put Foye on the second level. 

We really could run any defensive formation we want.

[Ovie_Lover 29,593]

5 minutes ago, vel said:

That's if you want more true LB. If you run up on a set with added WRs, Kazee gives you the coverage. HeIl, you could even put Campbell "down" and put Foye on the second level. 

If Quinn really wanted to imagine all the different things we could put on tape this year...

3-4

4-3

5-2

4-4 with Kazee then another with Foye

Kazee at FS with Rico at nickelback

Debo with Foye and Campbell edge rushing all game

Debo with Campbell and Foye spelling them

So. Many. Possibilites. 

@Vandy calm me down before I get excited 

[Vandy 39,421]

9 minutes ago, vel said:

This is why I loved the 4-4 formation. It's rarely used formally, but that's essentially what the 4-3 Under is when the SS moves in the box. You need a freak SS and one freak LB. We have both. From there, it's all about personnel. You can put Kazee at "LB" and Debo, Campbell, and Neal as the other three "LBs" or second level defenders. You can still have four down linemen and your secondary is Tru, Oliver, and Rico. Built for teams who don't have the personnel to take advantage of throws beyond 15 yards downfield with multiple weapons and puts a ton of speed/athleticism in the middle of the field and you have 8 options to choose from to send pressure. 

Great point Vel. Neal down in box gives Quinn ability to throw a lot of different variations at the offense. 

[Vandy 39,421]

6 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

If Quinn really wanted to imagine all the different things we could put on tape this year...

3-4

4-3

5-2

4-4 with Kazee then another with Foye

Kazee at FS with Rico at nickelback

Debo with Foye and Campbell edge rushing all game

Debo with Campbell and Foye spelling them

So. Many. Possibilites. 

@Vandy calm me down before I get excited 

This is why you championed Foye so much last year, Sassie. The athleticism/versatility he brings.

[TheFatboi 28,987]

19 hours ago, Ergo Proxy said:

That’s what I’ve seen us running. Not 5-2.

We’ve been running some 52 as well but it’s been 5 down linemen. I’m familiar with 52 or 50 defense because that’s what we ran in high school my freshman year in San Francisco. We called it eagle d and they called me eagle meat cause I used to slice it up and I had the defense chasing me like dogs chasing some meat lol. D@mn that brought back some memories. So I’m very familiar with the 52 defense.  

[Spts1 6,653]

2 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Great point Vel. Neal down in box gives Quinn ability to throw a lot of different variations at the offense. 

I don't think that was the issue with Quinn.  Its the lack of a edge rush AND offenses catching up with the 4-3 under.  Seattle and Baltimore both tweaked their defenses for the same reason...

[Ovie_Lover 29,593]

2 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

I don't think that was the issue with Quinn.  Its the lack of a edge rush AND offenses catching up with the 4-3 under.  Seattle and Baltimore both tweaked their defenses for the same reason...

Seattle still runs a 4-3 and Baltimore has always been a 3-4. The lack of edge rushers isn't magically fixed by moving to a 3-4.

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry 7,402]

"Nickel" is our base. 

[Vandy 39,421]

4 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

I don't think that was the issue with Quinn.  Its the lack of a edge rush AND offenses catching up with the 4-3 under.  Seattle and Baltimore both tweaked their defenses for the same reason...

Not sure I understand your point, slicky. Can you elaborate?

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry 7,402]

1 minute ago, Yo_Lover said:

Seattle still runs a 4-3 and Baltimore has always been a 3-4. The lack of edge rushers isn't magically fixed by moving to a 3-4.

TBH - the entire discussion of "4-3 vs. 3-4" is outdated. 

The league has evolved so quickly that the lines have blurred significantly between the two. 

[Ovie_Lover 29,593]

8 minutes ago, Vandy said:

This is why you championed Foye so much last year, Sassie. The athleticism/versatility he brings.

Man I love Foye. I'm convinced he could be an iron man and play FB if needed 

[Ovie_Lover 29,593]

1 minute ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

TBH - the entire discussion of "4-3 vs. 3-4" is outdated. 

The league has evolved so quickly that the lines have blurred significantly between the two. 

Basically. It's just gap responsibility at this point. Plus you barely see "base" defenses. Mostly nickel.

[Spts1 6,653]

9 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Not sure I understand your point, slicky. Can you elaborate?

Quinn was happy with his linebackers and safety play ( outside of Riley).  He was happy with his base 4-3 with the EXCEPTION of the edge rushing.  In other words I believe the ONLY reason he is toying with the 3-4 is for that reason.  He can scheme and show different looks from his base 4-3 like has been pointed out...

Edited August 8, 2019 by slickgadawg

[TheFatboi 28,987]

11 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

I don't think that was the issue with Quinn.  Its the lack of a edge rush AND offenses catching up with the 4-3 under.  Seattle and Baltimore both tweaked their defenses for the same reason...

Baltimore is a true 3-4 defense. Like Pitt. They came from Cleveland who was a 3-4 defense with belichik who came from a 3-4 in New York with Parcells. 

[Ovie_Lover 29,593]

2 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

Quinn was happy with his linebackers and safety play ( outside of Riley).  He was happy with his base 4-3 with the EXCEPTION of the edge rushing.  In other words I believe the ONLY reason he toying with the 3-4 is for that reason.  He can scheme and show different looks from his base 4-3 like has been pointed out...

I repeat 3-4 doesn't magically fix the pass rush see the Smitty years.

Also we play nickel 70% of the time so 3-4 is a mute point.

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry 7,402]

3 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

Basically. It's just gap responsibility at this point. Plus you barely see "base" defenses. Mostly nickel.

We were in Nickel 74% of the time last year. Base 22%. 

It's a passing league. Increasingly, it's a basketball-passing league....get versatile athletes on the field and match-em up. 

[Spts1 6,653]

5 minutes ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

"Nickel" is our base. 

They can run a 4-2-5 nickel with a third safety also.  Since Kazee played safety last season he would be the perfect defensive back playing that 3rd defensive back position in that scheme...

[Ovie_Lover 29,593]

Just now, slickgadawg said:

They can run a 4-2-5 nickel with a third safety also.  Since Kazee played safety last season he would be the perfect defensive back playing that 3rd defensive back position in that scheme...

Quinn said he wanted Wilcox as the third safety. Kazee in the "third safety" role is the same as being in nickel. We gotta be able to run big nickel with a third safety to give him and the other safeties a breather otherwise its pointless. Plus big nickel is for a bigger safety to come in and help with the run as well as pass support.

[Ovie_Lover 29,593]

1 minute ago, DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry said:

We were in Nickel 74% of the time last year. Base 22%. 

It's a passing league. Increasingly, it's a basketball-passing league....get versatile athletes on the field and match-em up. 

This. It's getting to the point of "find the best guys and just run nickel"

Eventually some team is gonna start running two TE's or bring a FB back and just run down teams throats. Seattle did it for awhile. Pats did it last year vs the Chargers.

[Spts1 6,653]

3 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Baltimore is a true 3-4 defense. Like Pitt. They came from Cleveland who was a 3-4 defense with belichik who came from a 3-4 in New York with Parcells. 

Good clarification...

[falconidae 21,325]

Just now, Yo_Lover said:

This. It's getting to the point of "find the best guys and just run nickel"

Eventually some team is gonna start running two TE's or bring a FB back and just run down teams throats. Seattle did it for awhile. Pats did it last year vs the Chargers.

IF the offense is clicking like it should, no team will be able to do that to the falcons this year because they'll be too far behind to run like that.

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry 7,402]

Just now, TheFatboi said:

Baltimore is a true 3-4 defense. Like Pitt. They came from Cleveland who was a 3-4 defense with belichik who came from a 3-4 in New York with Parcells. 

But even Baltimore isnt doing the old style 3-4 as much anymore. They had 6+ defensive backs on the field 26% of the time last year. They were in Nickel 57% of the time. Pittsburgh was almost a pure thirds split between base 3-4, nickel, and dime+.