Ultimate X’s and O’x thread

[Spts1 6,615]

6 minutes ago, Vandy said:

As his backup. Grace has never been given a fair opp by Quinn, he outplayed Riley all TC in 2017 as well as this one.

And we all have “our feels”, including you. Your silly comparison of him to Debo came out of that.

And sadly, we have to discuss Duke when bringing up grace. Did you see how awful Duke was at MLB when Debo went out last year? Grace is an upgrade there for depth. 

Anybody but Duke...

[NWFALCON 4,031]

19 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

I believe that's the receiver that I said the linebacker purposely let go for the safety.

Ok. It looked busted.  I’m no football expert and I wasn’t sure who had what responsibility. 

[ltstorm2 4,829]

2 hours ago, falconidae said:

Riley didn't play a snap last night, according to NFL.com.

 

https://nflcdns.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/57844/MIA_Gamebook.pdf

Snap counts are on page 19 of the PDF.

He didn't even dress.  He was in street clothes.  THANK GOD

[runshoot 1,349]

42 minutes ago, Vandy said:

As his backup. Grace has never been given a fair opp by Quinn, he outplayed Riley all TC in 2017 as well as this one.

And we all have “our feels”, including you. Your silly comparison of him to Debo came out of that.

And sadly, we have to discuss Duke when bringing up grace. Did you see how awful Duke was at MLB when Debo went out last year? Grace is an upgrade there for depth. 

 

Ill make sure to tell DQ, Pete Carroll, Frank Reich they didnt give Grace a fair shot. All the scouts, the positions coaches, the Defensive coordinators should bow down to you and your knowledge of Grace. Heck what about the other 29 teams which didnt even sign him at all!? Man the NFL knows nothing and you know exactly the truth about this one player!!

Dang man, I bet you make a bizillion dollars outsmarting all these NFL professionals. Right?

See how stupid that sounds? Thats your EGO. Even thinking to say DQ, Pete Carroll and Frank didn't give the guy a fair shake is cringe worthy.

 

LMAO. I'll hang up and listen....

[Vandy 39,408]

43 minutes ago, runshoot said:

 

Ill make sure to tell DQ, Pete Carroll, Frank Reich they didnt give Grace a fair shot. All the scouts, the positions coaches, the Defensive coordinators should bow down to you and your knowledge of Grace. Heck what about the other 29 teams which didnt even sign him at all!? Man the NFL knows nothing and you know exactly the truth about this one player!!

Dang man, I bet you make a bizillion dollars outsmarting all these NFL professionals. Right?

See how stupid that sounds? Thats your EGO. Even thinking to say DQ, Pete Carroll and Frank didn't give the guy a fair shake is cringe worthy.

 

LMAO. I’ll hang up and listen....

WTF? So who peed in your cereal this morning, bro?

Okay, so listen carefully and you just might learn something...This is a message board of opinions. And contrare’ to your simpleton thinking, DQ/Carroll/Reich have been wrong plenty of times before about personnel and other issues (See SB 49 and 51 for two obvious examples) and will be wrong again in the future. SMH at anyone thinking otherwise.

And FYI, since you went there, i do okay. 

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry 7,402]

22 hours ago, slickgadawg said:

I have to disagree.  What you are saying is true because of the " copycat " element of coaching but from a play style, I still prefer either a running game or a balanced attack.  Baltimore and San Francisco under Harbaugh got to the Superbowl with ground and pound offenses that could throw the ball when necessary.  In fact, as great as the Falcon offense has been, that offense would score soo quick that the defense would be out there for a long time and is known for giving up big leads ever since Quinn became head coach.  This difference in opinion on passing offenses vs ball control offenses started back with Buddy Ryan straight right crossing Gilbride on national tv back in the 90s...  Gilbride was trying to run the score up and not let Ryan's defense get a break...

in FACT, thats the year that Houston blew that 35-3 lead in the playoffs...

"  run the ball, you killing my defense "

 

Sorry but this completely misunderstands the argument. 

[vel 32,056]

2 hours ago, Vandy said:

Who is? Come on, man....how fair of a comparison is that? 

The Dukey he is not as well. 

 

Lol look I'm the one who's noted that for a few months now when people complain we didn't have a MLB to step up when he went down. If anybody knows, I know! Lol 

[vel 32,056]

1 hour ago, runshoot said:

 

Grace has been on 3 teams in 3 years with only 3 tackles total for a career. Get out of your "feels" and understand that he isn't making football teams for a reason. Being on skates 5 yards backwards is one of those reasons.

I didnt mention Duke, but both of you did. I hate Duke too, he is super horrible. But we aren't talking about Duke.

Yes Debo isnt a fair comparison, but that is the position he manned on the field.

 

Only reason I brought Duke up is because Grace would most likely be taking his spot on the roster. And 3 teams in 3 years is not my concern. Means was a fringe roster player in Philly but was set to carve out a role before he got hurt. 

You have a RT barrel down on Debo and see what happens...

[Vandy 39,408]

13 minutes ago, vel said:

Only reason I brought Duke up is because Grace would most likely be taking his spot on the roster. And 3 teams in 3 years is not my concern. Means was a fringe roster player in Philly but was set to carve out a role before he got hurt. 

You have a RT barrel down on Debo and see what happens...

Exactly. DTs have to protect our smallish LBers, like you said including Debo or it doesn’t work.

 

15 minutes ago, vel said:

Lol look I'm the one who's noted that for a few months now when people complain we didn't have a MLB to step up when he went down. If anybody knows, I know! Lol 

I know, right? 

So now Grace has to be Debo or he sux? Just when you think you’ve heard it all in here, TAFT never fails to surprise once again....

[vel 32,056]

6 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Exactly. DTs have to protect our smallish LBers, like you said including Debo or it doesn’t work.

 

I know, right? 

So now Grace has to be Debo or he sux? Just when you think you’ve heard it all in here, TAFT never fails to surprise once again....

The only place that believes you can have a Debo caliber LB on the bench. But let us have a Pro Bowl caliber player sitting on the bench and they'd be ready to hang DQ.

[Spts1 6,615]

35 minutes ago, vel said:

Only reason I brought Duke up is because Grace would most likely be taking his spot on the roster. And 3 teams in 3 years is not my concern. Means was a fringe roster player in Philly but was set to carve out a role before he got hurt. 

You have a RT barrel down on Debo and see what happens...

I know this is not a right tackle but its impressive what Kam Chancellor did here nonetheless. He put a LEAD blocking tight end on his butt...

 

[vel 32,056]

2 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

I know this is not a right tackle but its impressive what Kam Chancellor did here nonetheless. He put a LEAD blocking tight end on his butt...

 

Lol Kam was a crazy man. Loved watching him play

[Spts1 6,615]

9 minutes ago, vel said:

Lol Kam was a crazy man. Loved watching him play

I think Kam lulled Quinn into thinking he could scheme anybody back there...

[PeytonMannings Forehead 27,502]

On 8/3/2019 at 11:56 AM, slickgadawg said:

Here Quinn again is in cover 1 with man by the corners.  He has the strong safety in the box. The "leo" linebacker has his hand in the ground.  Quinn is running a cover 1 nickel defense with the " leo " linebacker hand in the ground.  The strong safety picks up the running back.  One of the Mike's picks up the tight end.  The strong safety was out of position on this play because for some reason he initially covered the tight end.  Either I am misreading the assignment or the safety blew his assignment big time...

LATE EDIT:  I totally misread the coverage.  Quinn is running a mix of zone and man here.  If you look, the strong safety covered his zone and THEN drifted out late to get the running back.  The corners are playing man but the nickel back, mikes and strong safety are playing a inside zone...

 

You were right the first time.  It's man coverage with a backer in the low hole (#53).  It looks like zone because they Banjo'd in the middle of the play where defenders switch man assignments.  You can see #20 made the Banjo call and let his man go and picked up the other crosser coming towards him.  Looks like #61 blew the call.

[athell 31,465]

2 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

You were right the first time.  It's man coverage with a backer in the low hole (#53).  It looks like zone because they Banjo'd in the middle of the play where defenders switch man assignments.  You can see #20 made the Banjo call and let his man go and picked up the other crosser coming towards him.  Looks like #61 blew the call.

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey!  Look who it is?!  What's up bro?

[PeytonMannings Forehead 27,502]

13 minutes ago, athell said:

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey!  Look who it is?!  What's up bro?

ath! What’s up? I miss anything?

[athell 31,465]

Just now, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

ath! What’s up? I miss anything?

Same TATF bro...good to see you again.  Hope you are well.

[PeytonMannings Forehead 27,502]

15 minutes ago, athell said:

Same TATF bro...good to see you again.  Hope you are well.

Doing good. Can’t complain.

Hope you’re doing well too, bro.

[Godzilla1985 6,658]

22 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

ath! What’s up? I miss anything?

OMG YOU’RE BACK!!! We missed you Obi-Won!

[Spts1 6,615]

4 hours ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

You were right the first time.  It's man coverage with a backer in the low hole (#53).  It looks like zone because they Banjo'd in the middle of the play where defenders switch man assignments.  You can see #20 made the Banjo call and let his man go and picked up the other crosser coming towards him.  Looks like #61 blew the call.

Thanx for clearing that up.  I'm learning this as I go...

[FalconsIn2012 35,691]

6 hours ago, Vandy said:

WTF? So who peed in your cereal this morning, bro?

Okay, so listen carefully and you just might learn something...This is a message board of opinions. And contrare’ to your simpleton thinking, DQ/Carroll/Reich have been wrong plenty of times before about personnel and other issues (See SB 49 and 51 for two obvious examples) and will be wrong again in the future. SMH at anyone thinking otherwise.

And FYI, since you went there, i do okay. 

LOL....

V69 In da MF’ing house

[FalconsIn2012 35,691]

4 hours ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

You were right the first time.  It's man coverage with a backer in the low hole (#53).  It looks like zone because they Banjo'd in the middle of the play where defenders switch man assignments.  You can see #20 made the Banjo call and let his man go and picked up the other crosser coming towards him.  Looks like #61 blew the call.

Sounds like a pattern match zone coverage except it’s man.  Interesting

[PeytonMannings Forehead 27,502]

2 hours ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Sounds like a pattern match zone coverage except it’s man.  Interesting

That's pretty much exactly what it is.  There's a whole plethora of that kinda stuff in the package to combat when offenses go to man-beaters.  We even have one where the safety will come down and bracket one of the crossers and the corner will take the safety's place on the fly.

[Spts1 6,615]

Earlier in the thread I showed a play where I said the Falcons were in a cover 1 nickel with man across the board.  I then corrected the post to say that the corners were playing man but that the Mikes, nickel back and strong safety were playing zone.  @PeytonMannings Forehead  corrected me and said that my INITIAL statement was correct. 

What threw me off was a switch that occurred with the nickel back and one of the Mikes that I thought was a zone coverage.  Peyton explained that it was a BANJO call by the nickel back.   I didn't know what a BANJO call is so I went and researched it. I discovered that it is a switch in the secondary that appears to be a zone coverage but is still a man coverage. Its primarily deployed against bunched or stacked formations but can be used in other instances also.   Depending on the overall coverage that is being played in the secondary (cover 1, cover2, cover 3, etc.)  will determine how the banjo is played.  Example, in a cover 2 zone your press corner will jam his receiver and then drop laterally toward the middle of the field while the outside corner steps up.  In cover 3 zone the press corner will jam and then release underneath the outside corner toward the flats while the outside corner retreats.  Its a zone match up defense.  ( I was already familiar with the term pattern match which @FalconsIn2020 pointed out is exactly what a banjo call is.)

In the example below, which we see EVERY Sunday, the offense is running double slants with a RUB ROUTE.  If the defense played this straight up man, the rub receiver (Z) running underneath (X ) would pick off the outside corner  (C) covering (X) which would allow (X) to be open on his slant.  To counter this rub move,  a banjo call is made in which neither the outside or nickel corner ($) declare who they are gonna pick up UNTIL the receivers commit to their routes. In the example below the defense sees the receivers start their crossing routes so they stay home and WAIT on each receiver to enter their zone and THEN commit to the man coverage.  Thats why it APPEARS to be a zone initially.  What makes this offensive concept hard to defend is the fact that the outside cornerback is forced to keep his outside leverage.  When he does this it opens him up for the hard slant back into the middle:

 

 

 

[FalconsIn2012 35,691]

13 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

Earlier in the thread I showed a play where I said the Falcons were in a cover 1 nickel with man across the board.  I then corrected the post to say that the corners were playing man but that the Mikes, nickel back and strong safety were playing zone.  @PeytonMannings Forehead  corrected me and said that my INITIAL statement was correct. 

What threw me off was a switch that occurred with the nickel back and one of the Mikes that I thought was a zone coverage.  Peyton explained that it was a BANJO call by the nickel back.   I didn't know what a BANJO call is so I went and researched it. I discovered that it is a switch in the secondary that appears to be a zone coverage but is still a man coverage. Its primarily deployed against bunched or stacked formations but can be used in other instances also.   Depending on the overall coverage that is being played in the secondary (cover 1, cover2, cover 3, etc.)  will determine how the banjo is played.  Example, in a cover 2 zone your press corner will jam his receiver and then drop laterally toward the middle of the field while the outside corner steps up.  In cover 3 zone the press corner will jam and then release underneath the outside corner toward the flats while the outside corner retreats.  Its a zone match up defense.  ( I was already familiar with the term pattern match which @FalconsIn2020 pointed out is exactly what a banjo call is.)

In the example below, which we see EVERY Sunday, the offense is running double slants with a RUB ROUTE.  If the defense played this straight up man, the rub receiver (Z) running underneath (X ) would pick off the outside corner  (C) covering (X) which would allow (X) to be open on his slant.  To counter this rub move,  a banjo call is made in which neither the outside or nickel corner ($) declare who they are gonna pick up UNTIL the receivers commit to their routes. In the example below the defense sees the receivers start their crossing routes so they stay home and WAIT on each receiver to enter their zone and THEN commit to the man coverage.  Thats why it APPEARS to be a zone initially.  What makes this offensive concept hard to defend is the fact that the outside cornerback is forced to keep his outside leverage.  When he does this it opens him up for the hard slant back into the middle:

 

 

 

I don’t know about anyone else but I am loving your posts and this thread.  It’s why I miss @PeytonMannings Forehead When he takes his offseason hiatus.  The X’s & O’s is the fun stuff and I learn a bunch in these threads.

The Niners forum has a pinned All 22 X’s & O’s thread that is amazing.  Wish we could get one here.

@JD dirtybird21

@VTCrunkler

Will you two consult with the higher ups and get it done.  

Here is a link to see what they do:

https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/181749-offseason-all22-film-study/