Spts1

Ultimate X’s and O’x thread

522 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

Thanks for the correction. If Quinn is using BOTH Tak and Beasley as Edge linebackers, then how is Campbell gonna be deployed out there also?  I'm making my assumption based on Quinn saying Tak will be used as a linebacker also.  

It works better in a 5-2 actually. Because one of the 5 linemen can be a decoy. Which sounds wonderful for Campbell and Beasley to be, Because not knowing if one of them are rushing or covering is a gamble for the opp to decide. 

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3 minutes ago, GrimeyKidd said:

It works better in a 5-2 actually. Because one of the 5 linemen can be a decoy. Which sounds wonderful for Campbell and Beasley to be, Because not knowing if one of them are rushing or covering is a gamble for the opp to decide. 

This makes sense.  If he is running that 5-2 look Tak WILL be on the field with Beasley.  I like the mixture of looks he is gonna go with to throw these offenses off.  Pound for Pound ATL Youtube channel said Quinn went back and looked at 6,000 snaps of his defense going back to his Seattle days and discovered that part of the problem is offenses caught up with his 4-3 under so he is going with different looks now on defense.

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9 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

This makes sense.  If he is running that 5-2 look Tak WILL be on the field with Beasley.  I like the mixture of looks he is gonna go with to throw these offenses off.  Pound for Pound ATL Youtube channel said Quinn went back and looked at 6,000 snaps of his defense going back to his Seattle days and discovered that part of the problem is offenses caught up with his 4-3 under so he is going with different looks now on defense.

Im just glad he is competent enough to look at a problem and attempt to fix it instead of running the same crap looking for better results. He knows this team as many talents and can easily run the new looks because they all come from schools that varied in 3-4 and 4-3 looks 

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DQ has always ran a multiple front. The 4-3 under is a 3-4, depending on what the LEO and SLB are lined up. That's the reason Reed,Schofield,VB,Tak and Irvin we all signed or drafted(VB,Takk)

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Posted (edited)

14 minutes ago, lju713 said:

DQ has always ran a multiple front. The 4-3 under is a 3-4, depending on what the LEO and SLB are lined up. That's the reason Reed,Schofield,VB,Tak and Irvin we all signed or drafted(VB,Takk)

You are correct, the 4-3 under is a modified 3-4 defense.  I think the change though is Quinn utilizing the 3-4 look as the base so that he can have a edge standing up on both sides of the defense.  Like @GrimeyKidd pointed out above, Quinn can either rush both edges or switch up which one is gonna rush to confuse the quarterback.  With the old 4-3 under look offenses grew to know who was gonna rush.  They knew they only had to block Beasley most of the time.  With these new looks they are not gonna be able to pick it up when Quinn starts scheming during the season.

Edited by slickgadawg
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19 hours ago, ballfan said:

In scientific terms it is called Confirmation bias, the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses.  You will likely confirm exactly what you thought you would find. 

Very common bias in investing world. Keep researching until you find support for where you were leaning anyway. 

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3 hours ago, slickgadawg said:

Going full time to the 3-4 would cause Duke Riley to lose out in this situation.  With both Tak and Beasley both being used as the outside linebackers, it appears Campbell and Jones will be the Mikes.  This is gonna be a fast linebacking corps...

We did this a lot in 2017 moving VB to Riley’s LBer spot as a hybrid DE/LBer.

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1 minute ago, Vandy said:

We did this a lot in 2017 moving VB to Riley’s LBer spot as a hybrid DE/LBer.

Yes he did.  My thinking though is he is going with the 3-4 now as the base scheme but will put other looks in there.  As been pointed out, the 4-3 under is technically the same as the 3-4 under because Quinn would stand his LEO up at times.  He just wants to change his base scheme and then scheme off of it to throw more confusion into the quarterbacks who got used to the 4-3 scheme.  I posted a comment that Pound for Pound ATL made on his Youtube Channel.  He said Quinn went back and looked at 6,000 defensive snaps going back to Seattle.  Quinn came away with the concern that offenses were adapting to the 4-3 under so he wants to change it up.  Pound also pointed out that Seattle and Baltimore also have tweaked their 4-3 schemes for that reason...

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2 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

Yes he did.  My thinking though is he is going with the 3-4 now as the base scheme but will put other looks in there.  As been pointed out, the 4-3 under is technically the same as the 3-4 under because Quinn would stand his LEO up at times.  He just wants to change his base scheme and then scheme off of it to throw more confusion into the quarterbacks who got used to the 4-3 scheme.  I posted a comment that Pound for Pound ATL made on his Youtube Channel.  He said Quinn went back and looked at 6,000 defensive snaps going back to Seattle.  Quinn came away with the concern that offenses were adapting to the 4-3 under so he wants to change it up.  Pound also pointed out that Seattle and Baltimore also have tweaked their 4-3 schemes for that reason...

 

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On 8/3/2019 at 1:44 PM, atljbo said:

I've said this allllll summer... all the signs was there.....

 

Coach Quinn saying he would use Beasley and Takk in a different way.

Bob Sutton being brought in

 

All someone needs to do is look at the down personnel on the DL; all DTs, and how our former DEs are being used more like LBs.

Some say 5-2 some say 3-4.

I just know it’s not the usual 4-3 Under personnel I’ve seen him run up front. Not the Base D anyway.

Makes me wonder what our sub packages will be like.

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5 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

All someone needs to do is look at the down personnel on the DL; all DTs, and how our former DEs are being used more like LBs.

Some say 5-2 some say 3-4.

I just know it’s not the usual 4-3 Under personnel I’ve seen him run up front. Not the Base D anyway.

Makes me wonder what our sub packages will be like.

You can make the 3-4 LOOK like a 5-2 by making your outside linebackers put their hand in the ground.  By changing to a base 3-4 ( which again it appears he will do) Quinn has more versatility to scheme.  He can even start the play with a 5-2 look and drop one or both linebackers back into coverage in a ZONE BLITZ look.  The possibilities are soo numerous with these changes...

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Did we ever use 3 DTs before as our base personnel down linemen while also using the likes of Takk and VB upright on the outside of those down linemen?

I know we’ve used guys like Shelby or Upshaw at DE before but we also would tend to use Takk at the other spot; 4 down linemen.

Vic rarely on field in base D and now he is on the field more and Takk isn’t at his usual base DE either.

5-2 or 3-4?

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On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 10:23 AM, slickgadawg said:

I went back and looked at some tape.  His line appear to be still using the 4-3 under techniques.  One tackle playing two gap 4 technique.  Nose playing two gap 1 technique and the other tackle playing 3 tech.  These do change.

 

Animated GIF

 

In the diagram below, the techniques are different but the linebacker assignment is basically the same.  Your outside linebackers have contain on run and pass rush in passing situations. On running plays your Mikes have Fill and Scrape duty. ( Fill gaps and Scrape the runner back inside).  On passing plays the Mikes match up against the tight end and running backs. 

The example in the Falcon play above shows this.  Quinn is running a 3-4 under with man behind it in a cover 1.  He is playing a nickel.  The Free Safety backpedals to his spot on the hash. The mikes pick up the running back and tight end, man by the corners.  Its a very aggressive defense because you essentially can have 5 people coming at the qb in pass rush at any time. He can move the linebackers around and overload a gap. (  A specialty of Todd Bowles and Rex Ryan).

Diagram of 3-4 Under. Courtesy of Matt Bowen [BleacherReport].

that's probably why we lost the football game we don't have the personnel to run a 3-4.

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52 minutes ago, 81KJW said:

that's probably why we lost the football game we don't have the personnel to run a 3-4.

Agreed. Probably why Schaub threw the INT. Why let the defense throw a lead? Better not to score points in the first place. :tiphat:

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2 hours ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Agreed. Probably why Schaub threw the INT. Why let the defense throw a lead? Better not to score points in the first place. :tiphat:

sorry I didn't watch the game I was at my day job.   lol sounds like a QB coach is not very good.  

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I don't know if it will be full 3-4. I know for a fact it will be multiple. You can see that from the end of the season last year. I even noted it pre-training camp. You can tell the personnel they have would be better utilized with that kind of look. 

It gets all of your best second level players on the field with Vic, Debo, Campbell, Takk as the LBs, with Grady, Bailey, Crawford, Clayborn, Senat, and Davison as your down guys. But you can even put Takk down, move Campbell over, and slide Neal down and put Kazee on the field. You can do so many things. 

I think it's more a shift in the utilization in the talent and distinction between "down lineman" and pass rusher. I think the lining up and playing aspect is what DQ isn't going to go with any more. He's going to utilize a ton of different groups. 4-3, 3-4, 5-2, 46, 4-4, 3-3-5, Eagle, Bear, Over, Under. It's all coming. 

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This team is all in for this year. We aren't putting ANYTHING on tape for other teams in the preseason. We are going to come out with something other teams have not seen by the time the season rolls around and try to get that advantage early on in the year when some offenses are still rusty. 

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2 hours ago, vel said:

I don't know if it will be full 3-4. I know for a fact it will be multiple. You can see that from the end of the season last year. I even noted it pre-training camp. You can tell the personnel they have would be better utilized with that kind of look. 

It gets all of your best second level players on the field with Vic, Debo, Campbell, Takk as the LBs, with Grady, Bailey, Crawford, Clayborn, Senat, and Davison as your down guys. But you can even put Takk down, move Campbell over, and slide Neal down and put Kazee on the field. You can do so many things. 

I think it's more a shift in the utilization in the talent and distinction between "down lineman" and pass rusher. I think the lining up and playing aspect is what DQ isn't going to go with any more. He's going to utilize a ton of different groups. 4-3, 3-4, 5-2, 46, 4-4, 3-3-5, Eagle, Bear, Over, Under. It's all coming. 

Agreed.

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3 hours ago, vel said:

I don't know if it will be full 3-4. I know for a fact it will be multiple. You can see that from the end of the season last year. I even noted it pre-training camp. You can tell the personnel they have would be better utilized with that kind of look. 

It gets all of your best second level players on the field with Vic, Debo, Campbell, Takk as the LBs, with Grady, Bailey, Crawford, Clayborn, Senat, and Davison as your down guys. But you can even put Takk down, move Campbell over, and slide Neal down and put Kazee on the field. You can do so many things. 

I think it's more a shift in the utilization in the talent and distinction between "down lineman" and pass rusher. I think the lining up and playing aspect is what DQ isn't going to go with any more. He's going to utilize a ton of different groups. 4-3, 3-4, 5-2, 46, 4-4, 3-3-5, Eagle, Bear, Over, Under. It's all coming. 

Look also at how many players on the defense can play multiple roles. Of the top 15 D players, Senat looks like strictly a DT, Tru and Oliver are corners, everyone else is some combination of DT/DE, DE/LB, LB/S, S/C.

They can go from a base D look to nickel without changing personnel, go from 4-3 to 3-4 to 5-2 without subbing. This could be a really effective defense that's always confusing the offense without confusing themselves. 

 

Just realized, they actually have the amoeba defense Nolan was going for LOL.

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3 hours ago, falconidae said:

Look also at how many players on the defense can play multiple roles. Of the top 15 D players, Senat looks like strictly a DT, Tru and Oliver are corners, everyone else is some combination of DT/DE, DE/LB, LB/S, S/C.

They can go from a base D look to nickel without changing personnel, go from 4-3 to 3-4 to 5-2 without subbing. This could be a really effective defense that's always confusing the offense without confusing themselves. 

 

Just realized, they actually have the amoeba defense Nolan was going for LOL.

And the key thing here is they are installing the defense in packages so they can emphasis one or two looks one week and pull out the 3rd front in another game but have understood the principle differences and whose job is what; without trying to install and learn it from starch during the season.

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6 hours ago, Dr Long Shot said:

This team is all in for this year. We aren't putting ANYTHING on tape for other teams in the preseason. We are going to come out with something other teams have not seen by the time the season rolls around and try to get that advantage early on in the year when some offenses are still rusty. 

Well we hope so , this defense has to show it first. They are so up and down , and inconsistent. 

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