Falconsfan567

Preseason Wins Are Meaningless

73 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, vel said:

That sounds good in a vacuum. Guys were going to play yesterday....until the weather turned to crap. DQ made the smarter decision of resting the most valuable players on the roster in lieu of chasing "1 series together in preseason game #1". Would it have been worth it if Matt gets hurt because a pass rusher slipped on the wet grass and hit him low? Which is what happened in the game to the Dolphins QB. Luckily he didn't get hurt, but it was not good conditions and the risk was too great. 

And again, you're trying to correlate lack of preseason snaps to starting slow out the gate. You can't use last year as proof of concept unless you think the reason we didn't score at PHI, the reason we lost in OT to NO, and the reason we lost to CIN was because we went 0-4 unless you equally agree we started off 2017 3-1 because we went 0-4 in pre-season. 

The preseason record is meaningless and shouldn't be the issue.

Evaluating the 2nd 3rd and 4th string players has become the primary reason for the preseason which I believe is a mistake. The preseason primarily should be for getting your 1st teamers ready to play the season then evaluate the the back benchers. The idea that because they're vets, they don't need to play in the preseason to get ready is ludicrous. No other sport approaches preseason preparation in that fashion. I can't imagine Freddie Freeman not playing in a preseason game to avoid injury. That would almost guarantee injury.

How many spots on this roster are actually up for grabs? They're using the preseason to give players that won't be on the team a chance to play and show for some other team while killing the preparation time that most have come to believe is ("let's not get injured time") for the real players. This team hasn't been ready to start the season over the past couple...since they got into protection mode. The last real tough camp they had was after a bad 2015 season and they had a 'prove it or lose it' mentality for each position going into 2016 camp. We saw how that season panned out for them.

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1 minute ago, slider said:

The preseason record is meaningless and shouldn't be the issue.

Evaluating the 2nd 3rd and 4th string players has become the primary reason for the preseason which I believe is a mistake. The preseason primarily should be for getting your 1st teamers ready to play the season then evaluate the the back benchers. The idea that because they're vets, they don't need to play in the preseason to get ready is ludicrous. No other sport approaches preseason preparation in that fashion. I can't imagine Freddie Freeman not playing in a preseason game to avoid injury. That would almost guarantee injury.

How many spots on this roster are actually up for grabs? They're using the preseason to give players that won't be on the team a chance to play and show for some other team while killing the preparation time that most have come to believe is ("let's not get injured time") for the real players. This team hasn't been ready to start the season over the past couple...since they got into protection mode. The last real tough camp they had was after a bad 2015 season and they had a 'prove it or lose it' mentality for each position going into 2016 camp. We saw how that season panned out for them.

I never said they don't need to play. You even mentioned one series for the first game for starters, which is what DQ was planning on doing until it poured down raining and making a bad field condition. No other sport has the high degree of injury and low number of games like football, so you again can't make comments in a vacuum. If Matt went and got hit and injured his toe like Benkert did, if he had 162 games to get back in the line up, cool. But he's got 16. And Julio hasn't played in a preseason game in years and is perfectly fine. Don't know how you can try and correlate not playing preseason to guaranteeing injury...

"This team hasn't been ready to start the season over the past couple...since they got into protection mode."

That's a dam lie and the truth is lost on you. Hasn't been ready to start the season? Lol they started 2017 3-1, losing to the Bills on a fluke "fumble" by Matt Ryan, after starting 0-4 in preseason. In 2018, I guess Debo, Neal, and Rico all got hurt because they didn't play pre-season? No, shlt happens. And we still started the season 1-3 only losing by a combined 13 points, all plays at the end of the game. The ball bounces our way in two of those three and we're 3-1 again. You can say whatever you want, but all of that post was just a bunch of BS. 

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42 minutes ago, falconidae said:

Would you agree that Quinn doesn't care about winning preseason games?

I think that he would like to win but that takes second place to what ever objective that they set out before the game

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44 minutes ago, Realsurfin said:

I see this take on preseason every year.   Maybe Quinn should break the mold and do it different.  Or do we have to keep repeating a lackluster history.  Show me the rings... instill winning in the preseason evaluation.  Maybe... just maybe it will translate into more regular season wins.  This better luck next time attitude does not bring home the rings.

Quinn should evaluate winning instead of losing.  What is the difference in evaluating players while winning verses evaluating the players while they are losing? Are you all saying that you cannot really evaluate a player unless they are losing the game?

That's pretty incredible.:rolleyes:  

I would say the coaching needs some reevaluating.  

So, you agree, Quinn doesn't care about winning in the preseason.

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1 hour ago, rightsaidfred said:

Apples and Oranges.  DQ would never have gone for it on 4th and 9 (the first time)  for real.  It was just to see how they handled it. 

Tons of penalties on defense, and a lot that thwarted getting to 4th down - that's what rookies do

It's all about evaluation.  There were some good things that happened last night.

I have no complaints.......

Agree, I have no complaints about our play. In fact, Schaub's resurrection from the dead provided quite a pleasant surprise. I definitely think the zebras were way too far up the Falcons' rear end with their one-sided calls though.

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50 minutes ago, Realsurfin said:

I see this take on preseason every year.   Maybe Quinn should break the mold and do it different.  Or do we have to keep repeating a lackluster history.  Show me the rings... instill winning in the preseason evaluation.  Maybe... just maybe it will translate into more regular season wins.  This better luck next time attitude does not bring home the rings.

Quinn should evaluate winning instead of losing.  What is the difference in evaluating players while winning verses evaluating the players while they are losing? Are you all saying that you cannot really evaluate a player unless they are losing the game?

That's pretty incredible.:rolleyes:  

I would say the coaching needs some reevaluating.  

Lol let's say Neal bats down the pass vs the Broncos and the Falcons don't go for it at their own 15 vs the Dolphins, giving up easy points. You think those two differences suddenly promotes a winning culture over the losing culture DQ is promoting? 

They literally lost both games so far at the end of games, relying on guys who may not even make the next week or practice squad. Yet, somehow he's got to teach the team how to win by doing so in the preseason? Did we lose the SB because we lost that one game in pre-season in 2016? Did we lose to the Eagles in 2017 because we went 0-4 in pre-season? 

You're acting like DQ is going into it with the intention of losing the game. That's not what we're saying at all. Winning/losing is not even in the minds of the coaches. It's pure evaluation. You as the fan only see the score and if the Falcons won or not. You need some reevaluating as a fan. 

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1 minute ago, PokerSteve said:

Agree, I have no complaints about our play. In fact, Schaub's resurrection from the dead provided quite a pleasant surprise. I definitely think the zebras were way too up the Falcons' rear end with their one-sided calls though.

Lol I didn't want to complain about the refs in a pre-season game but dam I'm glad I'm not the only one. I was like dam how many ticky tack calls do we need?! Let them play! 

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2 minutes ago, vel said:

Lol I didn't want to complain about the refs in a pre-season game but dam I'm glad I'm not the only one. I was like dam how many ticky tack calls do we need?! Let them play! 

With all the rules changes, it makes you wonder if the officiating this year is going to be worse than it's ever been in the history of the league. That would be a disaster for us.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah yeah... We hear the same thing every year. But the bottom line is... in the past few years under DQ, our depth has been getting outplayed by other teams depth. 

Penalties are a part of preparation. Yes, we have time to fix things. 

Im pretty sure we actually won a preseason game the year we went to the superbowl. Coincidence? Or were we just better prepared to start the season that year. 

 

Edited by ParanoidAndroid

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2 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

With all the rules changes, it makes you wonder if the officiating this year is going to be worse than it's ever been in the history of the league. That would be a disaster for us.

Refs are definitely under a microscope due to  the calls made in the postseason especially with what happened with the Saints.

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3 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

With all the rules changes, it makes you wonder if the officiating this year is going to be worse than it's ever been in the history of the league. That would be a disaster for us.

Ehh... It's always worse in pre-season so take it for what it is. It's just annoying when it's a flag seemingly every other play and ticky tack as well. It's been heavily favored for the offenses as well, so they can get more in sync I think. Preston Williams got away with a number of push offs that they didn't care to call. 

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1 minute ago, blkbigdog35 said:

Refs are definitely under a microscope due to  the calls made in the postseason especially with what happened with the Saints.

I would hope all the referees who provide abundant proof of their incompetence in preseason will be fired, but I know that's just a crazy fantasy that will never come true.

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1 minute ago, blkbigdog35 said:

Refs are definitely under a microscope due to  the calls made in the postseason especially with what happened with the Saints.

Yeah but the problem with last night was we were called to the point that it helped the Phins keep up, but they were holding dang near all night and it wasn't called but maybe twice.

Sounds like the same as the Broncos game. First year head coach just has to win his first, especially since they were at home.

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2 minutes ago, vel said:

Ehh... It's always worse in pre-season so take it for what it is. It's just annoying when it's a flag seemingly every other play and ticky tack as well. It's been heavily favored for the offenses as well, so they can get more in sync I think. Preston Williams got away with a number of push offs that they didn't care to call. 

Yeah, I saw. And they also had a couple linemen who tackled our passrushers and a bunch of others who were holding and not even trying to hide it and none of that was called either. Just irritating as hel, even though it's a meaningless preseason game.

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3 hours ago, WhenFalconsWin said:

Preaseason is like kissing your sister, it doesn't accomplish anything except evaluate coaches and talent.

But at least one of them you can marry and get a reach around from, right WTF??? :rolleyes:

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13 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

I would hope all the referees who provide abundant proof of their incompetence in preseason will be fired, but I know that's just a crazy fantasy that will never come true.

Totally agree poker!

12 minutes ago, BoomGoesTheDynamite said:

Yeah but the problem with last night was we were called to the point that it helped the Phins keep up, but they were holding dang near all night and it wasn't called but maybe twice.

Sounds like the same as the Broncos game. First year head coach just has to win his first, especially since they were at home.

I agree boom and that WR they had making those catches on the outside damm near pushed every time he released from the LOS without one offensive PI.

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55 minutes ago, vel said:

I never said they don't need to play. You even mentioned one series for the first game for starters, which is what DQ was planning on doing until it poured down raining and making a bad field condition. No other sport has the high degree of injury and low number of games like football, so you again can't make comments in a vacuum. If Matt went and got hit and injured his toe like Benkert did, if he had 162 games to get back in the line up, cool. But he's got 16. And Julio hasn't played in a preseason game in years and is perfectly fine. Don't know how you can try and correlate not playing preseason to guaranteeing injury...

"This team hasn't been ready to start the season over the past couple...since they got into protection mode."

That's a dam lie and the truth is lost on you. Hasn't been ready to start the season? Lol they started 2017 3-1, losing to the Bills on a fluke "fumble" by Matt Ryan, after starting 0-4 in preseason. In 2018, I guess Debo, Neal, and Rico all got hurt because they didn't play pre-season? No, shlt happens. And we still started the season 1-3 only losing by a combined 13 points, all plays at the end of the game. The ball bounces our way in two of those three and we're 3-1 again. You can say whatever you want, but all of that post was just a bunch of BS. 

My response to you earlier was because you seemed to take me for one that cared about the preseason record. I do not. I care more about getting the team ready to hit the ground running in the regular season and "my opinion" is that they haven't looked very good early in the season, especially last year after the first real (protective) preseason where certain players didn't play at all. In the past, that "let's not get them hurt" mentality has not worked and usually backfires on you. It seems that whenever this team gets into contention for the superbowl, the HC goes into protection mode, (Smitty did it too) and the team takes a downturn. This is my only point and I believe I was able to convey it without insult.

Where's that "Iron sharpens Iron" crap when it comes to getting ready to play? I played for years and never once did I think during a game, "hey this is just like practice"!..... Just the opposite.

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16 minutes ago, slider said:

My response to you earlier was because you seemed to take me for one that cared about the preseason record. I do not. I care more about getting the team ready to hit the ground running in the regular season and "my opinion" is that they haven't looked very good early in the season, especially last year after the first real (protective) preseason where certain players didn't play at all. In the past, that "let's not get them hurt" mentality has not worked and usually backfires on you. It seems that whenever this team gets into contention for the superbowl, the HC goes into protection mode, (Smitty did it too) and the team takes a downturn. This is my only point and I believe I was able to convey it without insult.

Where's that "Iron sharpens Iron" crap when it comes to getting ready to play? I played for years and never once did I think during a game, "hey this is just like practice"!..... Just the opposite.

To the bolded: we went 0-4 in 2017 and 2018. We started 2017 3-1. We didn't look good? Last year, we lost the entire middle of the defense to injury and went 1-3. Do you blame pre-season on that? Because Debo, Neal, and Rico all played in the preseason and you tried to make the correlation of the lack of preseason play "almost guarantees injury". And again, we lost all three of those games on the last play of the game. So tell me how you can correlate the lack of players playing in preseason, with proof that you aren't providing, to slow starts. Matt put up 1300 yards and 10 TDs in the first four games. That's a mighty slow start. Again, you're trying to make this "protection" argument when it's baseless because a lot of the guys that weren't dressed last night were last minute scratches due to the weather.  

Again, you're treating all of this in a vacuum. The underlined part is also not true. Again, you're trying to find correlation but providing no supporting evidence. Just making baseless statements. DQ treated the 2017 preseason the same exact way as he always has and the Falcons were the only NFC team to return to the postseason and were one play away from returning to the NFCCG. But you conveniently ignore that because it doesn't fly with the "team takes a downturn" premise you want to believe.

You're seriously telling me, if Ryan Neal bats that ball down vs the Broncos and we win that game and Dan Quinn doesn't go for it at his own 15 yard line and instead punts and we win versus the Dolphins last night, somehow we're now better positioned for the regular season? Right...

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5 hours ago, falcndave said:

Losing bites. Winning is not important. Those two statements are not mutually exclusive. Get over it. 

You're legit upset about losing a preseason game? Are you even serious right now?

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3 hours ago, ParanoidAndroid said:

Yeah yeah... We hear the same thing every year. But the bottom line is... in the past few years under DQ, our depth has been getting outplayed by other teams depth. 

Penalties are a part of preparation. Yes, we have time to fix things. 

Im pretty sure we actually won a preseason game the year we went to the superbowl. Coincidence? Or were we just better prepared to start the season that year. 

 

Honestly, coincidence. 

I also don't buy the "depth getting outplayed by other teams depth" argument. Not to say that cant happen but unless you're willing to drill down to the snapcount level, its not a conclusion that can be supported by the available evidence. 

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1 hour ago, Falconsfan567 said:

You're legit upset about losing a preseason game? Are you even serious right now?

Read my post literally...not with an attitude. What your finding isn't there. When the game was over, and we didn't win...I wasn't thrilled. It lasted as long as it took me to open and check my e-mail. 

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Posted (edited)

Teams who go to Super Bowls or win it usually go 2-2 or 3-1 in the preseason, those are teams who played their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th stringers equally and barely their 1st stringers and still did well in the preseason with good depth. Teams who go 0-4 or 1-3 in the preseason usually didn't have have good depth behind them or had questionable coaching decisions/issues. Teams who go 4-0 in the preseason don't do well because they probably played their 1st or 2nd stringers for the majority of the preseason, they tried really hard to win in the preseason with all they had not knowing that they were really going to be mediocre coming into the regular season, hence why the 2008 Lions or 2017 Browns went winless the whole year. You can't compare an 0-4 preseason team who played almost everybody on their roster to a 4-0 preseason team who stuck with their 1st or 2nd stringers most of the time. 

The Patriots first preseason win was 31-3 over the Lions, not surprised.....

Edited by mqg96

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12 minutes ago, mqg96 said:

Teams who go to Super Bowls or win it usually go 2-2 or 3-1 in the preseason, those are teams who played their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th stringers equally and barely their 1st stringers and still did well in the preseason with good depth. Teams who go 0-4 or 1-3 in the preseason usually didn't have have good depth behind them or had questionable coaching decisions/issues. Teams who go 4-0 in the preseason don't do well because they probably played their 1st or 2nd stringers for the majority of the preseason, they tried really hard to win in the preseason with all they had not knowing that they were really going to be mediocre coming into the regular season, hence why the 2008 Lions or 2017 Browns went winless the whole year. You can't compare an 0-4 preseason team who played almost everybody on their roster to a 4-0 preseason team who stuck with their 1st or 2nd stringers most of the time. 

The Patriots first preseason win was 31-3 over the Lions, not surprised.....

So, you realize that 3 teams that went winless in the preseason went to the super bowl and one team won it, right?

That multiple teams with 0fors also had playoff runs?

 

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3 hours ago, falcndave said:

Read my post literally...not with an attitude. What your finding isn't there. When the game was over, and we didn't win...I wasn't thrilled. It lasted as long as it took me to open and check my e-mail. 

You said and I quote "losing bites." I don't know about that you but I take it to mean that you're bothered by it.

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