OrthoPTSD

Kaleb pick a bad one?

159 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

38 minutes ago, falconidae said:

Yeah, you're missing a lot , actually.

One, it's not surgery, they aren't cutting him open. every medical professional who has chimed in has called it a minor procedure.

Two, it's really common for it to take 2-3 tries to get it fixed.

Three. It can be fixed, he may never need to have this done again in his career.

Four. Recovery time can be as little as a month.

Five. Multiple NFL players have had this done, you just never hear about it.

Six. I have links to Medical professionals  stating  each of the above  points. You can find them in the other thread.

 

All of this is understood.

Now, 

1) It's an inexact science. Yes it CAN be fixed. But the possibility exists that it can not be fixed as well

2) This was one of the deepest drafts in a while. Several impact players available. We traded up to get a guy with some health concerns. I don't this it's a stretch to say the draft capital could have been used better

3) Ablation is by definition minimally invasive surgery

4) Standard recovery time is 8-12 weeks. For athletes it's typically between 6-8 weeks. 4 weeks is an extremely optimistic outlook

5) Ablation carries risk of infection and scarring, especially with repeat instances

I'm not predicting that he's not going to be good. I'm saying two main things. One, the draft capital could have objectively been used better. Second, we aren't certain of his future. He could come back healthy with this issue resolved, get back into game shape in short order, beat out the incumbent for the starting job and be a rock for the next 10 years. I choose to think that the folks that are acting like that is assured are being homers. Yes he can come back with the issue resolved, but he's still going to be missing playing time as a rookie. O-Lineman usually take time to get up to speed. That problem is compounded by his health. 

Edited by MD-FalconFan13
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I wish there was a way to unsubscribe from notifications for a thread because now that FFS70 has shown up this thread is destined to go from bad to heIl and I don't want it popping up anymore on my feed.

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2 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Way too early to tell, but you have to wonder. I liked Dimi double dipping on OL, but still think Jawaan Taylor and Cody Ford might have been a better move. Let's evaluate the move after the 2021 season. You better get ready for a bunch of shiny happy TATF blowhards to come after you and try to make you shiny and happy. Six to eight weeks out, with a return on blood thinners aint good for a second round projection who was having a hard time beating out Sombrero. We might have been Troffed again. Don't be surprised if we were. Buddy aint no OL guru. Trust me.

And trade up with those horses available without medical issue? (I guess, did anyone hear about Kaleb issue)

Draft capital

Perplexing

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10 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Way too early to tell, but you have to wonder. I liked Dimi double dipping on OL, but still think Jawaan Taylor and Cody Ford might have been a better move. Let's evaluate the move after the 2021 season. You better get ready for a bunch of shiny happy TATF blowhards to come after you and try to make you shiny and happy. Six to eight weeks out, with a return on blood thinners aint good for a second round projection who was having a hard time beating out Sombrero. We might have been Troffed again. Don't be surprised if we were. Buddy aint no OL guru. Trust me.

I can't believe your last two brain cells have lasted this long.

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17 minutes ago, FalconFanSince1970 said:

Way too early to tell, but you have to wonder. I liked Dimi double dipping on OL, but still think Jawaan Taylor and Cody Ford might have been a better move. Let's evaluate the move after the 2021 season. You better get ready for a bunch of shiny happy TATF blowhards to come after you and try to make you shiny and happy. Six to eight weeks out, with a return on blood thinners aint good for a second round projection who was having a hard time beating out Sombrero. We might have been Troffed again. Don't be surprised if we were. Buddy aint no OL guru. Trust me.

Yeah I see shiny happy all over, a big welcome for me, was not expecting that for sure.

?? 

Troffed with OL again? Not best track record I agree.

Do hope he is a rock for 10 years

 

 

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6 minutes ago, MD-FalconFan13 said:

All of this is understood.

Now, 

1) It's an inexact science. Yes it CAN be fixed. But the possibility exists that it can not be fixed as well

2) This was one of the deepest drafts in a while. Several impact players available. We traded up to get a guy with some health concerns. I don't this it's a stretch to say the draft capital could have been used better

3) Ablation is by definition minimally invasive surgery

4) Standard recovery time is 8-12 weeks. For athletes it's typically between 6-8 weeks. 4 weeks is an extremely optimistic outlook

5) Ablation carries risk of infection and scarring, especially with repeat instances

I'm not predicting that he's not going to be good. I'm saying two main things. One, the draft capital could have objectively been used better. Second, we aren't certain of his future. He could come back healthy with this issue resolved, get back into game shape in short order, beat out the incumbent for the starting job and be a rock for the next 10 years. I choose to think that the folks that are acting like that is assured are being homers. Yes he can come back with the issue resolved, but he's still going to be missing playing time as a rookie. O-Lineman usually take time to get up to speed. That problem is compounded by his health. 

Meh, you're the only one calling it surgery, everyone else calls it  a procedure because no cutting is involved, which also means the risk of scarring and infection is minimal.  His last one was 2 years ago, not like he's getting this done every month.

And 3 months is an extremely pessimistic outlook on his return time.  

This is almost undoubtedly  just a blip on McGary's career, really good bet that he's starting sometime this year.

There is absolute no reason to expect this to be a major problem going forward. As the Dr who was the team Dr for San Diego for 17 years said, many NFL players get this done and you never hear about it. 

Every person who has experience with this procedure we've heard from, either by having it done on themselves or because they work in the field have said this is a minor procedure and that McGary will be fine.

If you want to worry about it, feel free, just not going to join you in that worry.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, OrthoPTSD said:

Yeah I see shiny happy all over, a big welcome for me, was not expecting that for sure.

?? 

Troffed with OL again? Not best track record I agree.

Do hope he is a rock for 10 years

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Yo_Lover said:

Jump off the edge and go be a fan somewhere else so we dont have to deal with this.

You are tough, Man! But, you are right. With the weak fan-base the Falcons have had over the years the last think we need are wimps like this dribbling about what looks like the obvious. What we need more fans with 'heart' same as we expect from our players. Like fan-bases in Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Green Bay, Seattle etc...

McGary has plenty of 'heart', and for the wimpy fan-base's information, will show us what he is made of soon enough. There is nothing that will keep him away from that playing field. He will not turn out to be a good draft pick, but a great one. 

Tak had mental problems that we knew about before we drafted him, and will also turn out to not be a good draft pick, but a great one. 

Whatever the Falcons draft filter is, it appears to be working just fine to me!

 

 

 

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This dude has been through a lot and just keeps on pushing through. If anything, he needs our support as fans and as human beings. Imagine how devastated he must be and quit thinking about yourself and what you want. 

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5 hours ago, OrthoPTSD said:

Especially with the Ablation issue already? The "Falcon filter" screw that "The Medical Filter" did not stop this pick?  And trade up?

Got to say the multiple ablation issue was news to me. (As well as should be but we hear about medical flags all time)

But.. we traded up for him?  Sorry but this was a miss on FO for a first rounder. His narrative is not over but is definitely it now.

Talk me off the edge please

Julio had multiple surgeries at the college level.  He gets to NFL and gets paid and has much better insurance and doctors and all of sudden his foot is fixed.  Maybe, just maybe, there are better doctors available to McGary now than in previous years.

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As a healthcare professional, I hope for the best for McGary, but some of this sheeplike, “The Falcons, the posters and some internet doctors said it is a little procedure!” Is absurd.

1. He passed out on the field during practice (we are glossing over that). What happens if he goes into Atrial Fibrillation during the game?

2. Cardiac Ablation is a reactive treatment. The only preventive treatment is blood thinners which would rule out playing football. He won’t be able to take blood thinners and play FB, so he will be at an ongoing risk to have another Atrial Fibrillation induced syncopatic episode. This is a risk even for those who have Cardiac Ablation, are on blood thinners and work at a bank.

3. All of the “I went back to work the next day” guys: Were you in a three point stance blocking DE’s? Ohhhh you were on blood thinners and still have a 5 time higher risk for post procedure stroke, don’t you? I guess that doesn’t sound tough on the AF message board?

4. I would love to see him out there, but he is going to miss significant time recovering from the blood thinners needed to facilitate the procedure. As a rookie trying to learn the game, this is less than optimal. I just hope he can be healthy and ready to go down the stretch because Ty Sambrailo ain’t it!

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2 hours ago, jazzyburrell said:

As a healthcare professional, I hope for the best for McGary, but some of this sheeplike, “The Falcons, the posters and some internet doctors said it is a little procedure!” Is absurd.

1. He passed out on the field during practice (we are glossing over that). What happens if he goes into Atrial Fibrillation during the game?

he didn't pass out

2. Cardiac Ablation is a reactive treatment. The only preventive treatment is blood thinners which would rule out playing football. He won’t be able to take blood thinners and play FB, so he will be at an ongoing risk to have another Atrial Fibrillation induced syncopatic episode. This is a risk even for those who have Cardiac Ablation, are on blood thinners and work at a bank.

What are you talking about? The blood thinners are just for after the procedure. They've also said time and time again its fixable and he could never have a problem again.

3. All of the “I went back to work the next day” guys: Were you in a three point stance blocking DE’s? Ohhhh you were on blood thinners and still have a 5 time higher risk for post procedure stroke, don’t you? I guess that doesn’t sound tough on the AF message board?

**** youre sensitive too, shocker.

As a "medical professional" I hope I never have you treat me. Where do you work so I can avoid it? 

If you can't be bothered to read about a player before posting I'd never trust you with my health.

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14 hours ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Do people really take the time to read ALL of the facts before replying?:munch:

Lol he11 no and unfortunately bro the number of asinine comments will continue!

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16 hours ago, Ergo Proxy said:

He'll be our starter by next year at the latest. Period.

unless this happens again which is the problem 

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15 hours ago, ⚡Slumerican⚡ said:

Did the original poster even look up what the procedure is? Its a pretty simplistic event.. Absolutely nothing to worry about 

lol

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3 hours ago, jazzyburrell said:

As a healthcare professional, I hope for the best for McGary, but some of this sheeplike, “The Falcons, the posters and some internet doctors said it is a little procedure!” Is absurd.

1. He passed out on the field during practice (we are glossing over that). What happens if he goes into Atrial Fibrillation during the game?

2. Cardiac Ablation is a reactive treatment. The only preventive treatment is blood thinners which would rule out playing football. He won’t be able to take blood thinners and play FB, so he will be at an ongoing risk to have another Atrial Fibrillation induced syncopatic episode. This is a risk even for those who have Cardiac Ablation, are on blood thinners and work at a bank.

3. All of the “I went back to work the next day” guys: Were you in a three point stance blocking DE’s? Ohhhh you were on blood thinners and still have a 5 time higher risk for post procedure stroke, don’t you? I guess that doesn’t sound tough on the AF message board?

4. I would love to see him out there, but he is going to miss significant time recovering from the blood thinners needed to facilitate the procedure. As a rookie trying to learn the game, this is less than optimal. I just hope he can be healthy and ready to go down the stretch because Ty Sambrailo ain’t it!

1. There are no reports of him passing out or collapsing. The only report I can find is a tweet from McClure that Kaleb felt ill.

Those are terms used by posters trying to cast the worst possible light on the situation

2. Reactive huh? So, the atrovstatin they have me on for high cholesteroll is a  reactive prescription?

You do understand blood thinners are temporary, right?

3.???

 

4."... Dr. Shephal Doshi, who is the director of cardiac electrophysiology and pacing at Providence Saint John’s Health Center in Santa Monica, Calif., said it typically takes eight weeks to resume contact sports after undergoing a cardiac ablation. A cardiac ablation, which Doshi emphasized is not a surgery, is minimally invasive and doesn’t require any cutting of the skin. ...

Doshi said there is a chance to avoid an eight-week timetable if it is determined there were very few problem areas to burn off. In this hypothetical scenario, it could cut the recovery period to four weeks. In fact, Boston Bruins defenseman Charlie McAvoy had an ablation in 2018 and missed only two weeks.

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3 hours ago, falconidae said:

2. Reactive huh? So, the atrovstatin they have me on for high cholesteroll is a  reactive prescription?

You do understand blood thinners are temporary, right?

4."... Dr. Shephal Doshi... said it typically takes eight weeks to resume contact sports after undergoing a cardiac ablation

Let me address your confusion: Cardiac Ablation is a reactive procedure to Atrial Fibrillation. You guys are so focused on this “minor procedure” you failed to research the condition that requires it (which is a serious and life threatening condition).

The statin you are taking is to lower cholesterol.

The preventative medicine for Atrial Fibrillation is blood thinner, people with Afib are on them permanently (not temporarily).

McGary cannot play contact sports on them, but he needed them for the procedure and will need to stay on them for a while after surgery.

I am just giving you facts. Your own quote said it should take up to 8 weeks to recover, 8 weeks from now, the Falcons will be a 1/4 through the season. 

Any further points you wanna argue? We are on the same side here, I just want to keep your expectations realistic! 

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20 hours ago, OrthoPTSD said:

Especially with the Ablation issue already? The "Falcon filter" screw that "The Medical Filter" did not stop this pick?  And trade up?

Got to say the multiple ablation issue was news to me. (As well as should be but we hear about medical flags all time)

But.. we traded up for him?  Sorry but this was a miss on FO for a first rounder. His narrative is not over but is definitely it now.

Talk me off the edge please

why was this news to you? You don't pay attention to things constantly and the just decide to freak out as soon as news breaks? 

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12 minutes ago, jazzyburrell said:

Let me address your confusion: Cardiac Ablation is a reactive procedure to Atrial Fibrillation. You guys are so focused on this “minor procedure” you failed to research the condition that requires it (which is a serious and life threatening condition).

The statin you are taking is to lower cholesterol.

The preventative medicine for Atrial Fibrillation is blood thinner, people with Afib are on them permanently (not temporarily).

McGary cannot play contact sports on them, but he needed them for the procedure and will need to stay on them for a while after surgery.

I am just giving you facts. Your own quote said it should take up to 8 weeks to recover, 8 weeks from now, the Falcons will be a 1/4 through the season. 

Any further points you wanna argue? We are on the same side here, I just want to keep your expectations realistic! 

His doctors have said it's not life threatening and the blood thinners are temporary, just for after the procedure.

https://theathletic.com/1112643/2019/08/02/inside-falcons-rookie-kaleb-mcgarys-heart-procedure-chris-lindstrom-john-cominsky-turn-heads-in-debuts/

 

CANTON, Ohio — It’s a procedure that, to the layperson, sounds worse than it is. Cardiac ablation. Any time the word cardiac is used in relation to a human being, it tends to be serious. Ablation isn’t exactly a word that gives the fuzzies, either.

During practice Tuesday, first-round draft pick Kaleb McGary felt ill and needed to leave the field. As it has happened before, McGary’s heart started racing due to atrial fibrillation, a condition in which the heart essentially short circuits and begins to beat irregularly. A day after the episode, the Falcons said McGary would undergo a third cardiac ablation procedure. After a 14-10 loss to the Denver Broncos at the Hall of Fame Game on Thursday, head coach Dan Quinn provided an update on McGary.

“The doctors were certainly happy with the procedure, and we’ll have more updates as we go along,” Quinn said. “The first part of it is they were happy. Now, we’ll go through the same markers, when he goes back to the doc, on when his return to play can be.”

While it might have seemed like a scary episode, it doesn’t appear the Falcons’ organization is too concerned about the long-term well-being of McGary, whom they traded up to draft.

Quinn was asked if it was a scenario he knew could possibly occur, simply based on McGary’s medical history. Quinn said the Falcons researched McGary’s background, which included medical clearance at the NFL scouting combine. Prior to drafting McGary, there wasn’t any worry from the team.

“That’s the stuff that you trust,” Quinn said. “He went through numbers of tests, not just at the combine. When you have those reports, you tend to trust the way they’re going. It’s unfortunate, but the good news is he’s going to come back. That’s the thing that’s most important. When that is, it’ll be as soon as he can, I know that.”

Dr. Shephal Doshi, who is the director of cardiac electrophysiology and pacing at Providence Saint John’s Health Center in Santa Monica, Calif., said it typically takes eight weeks to resume contact sports after undergoing a cardiac ablation. A cardiac ablation, which Doshi emphasized is not a surgery, is minimally invasive and doesn’t require any cutting of the skin. A catheter is inserted into a vein in the groin, and a wire is then run up to the heart. From there, the heart tissue creating faulty electrical signals is burned so the heart does not short circuit.

Doshi said that while atrial fibrillation might seem serious, it is by no means life-threatening. The number of cardiac ablations a patient undergoes isn’t a concern, either. Sometimes, a doctor might think he or she fixed the faulty heart tissue, only for an irregular heartbeat to occur again. It’s simply a matter of going through another ablation to fix the problem.

“He can have it three times, four times, five times,” Doshi said. “You just have to find the right spot. With this procedure, you don’t know if it works until he has an episode.”

The procedure itself might cause some chest soreness that doesn’t last long. The reason a patient might wait up to eight weeks to resume contact sports is that blood-thinning medication must be taken afterward. With the procedure creating a burn in the heart, there is a risk for clotting without a blood thinner. And if a football player is on blood-thinning medication and takes a violent hit on the football field, the risk of internal bleeding greatly increases.

On top of that, if a clot forms in the heart, it can travel to the brain and result in a stroke.

“You can’t do the procedure without starting a blood thinner afterward,” Doshi said. “The active burning in the heart will cause blood clots in the heart. You have to be able to take the blood thinners after to get the procedure.”

Doshi said there is a chance to avoid an eight-week timetable if it is determined there were very few problem areas to burn off. In this hypothetical scenario, it could cut the recovery period to four weeks. In fact, Boston Bruins defenseman Charlie McAvoy had an ablation in 2018 and missed only two weeks.

“Let’s say they go in there, and they find only one or two little spots. They may say he doesn’t need the full eight weeks because they didn’t have to do a full rewiring,” Doshi said. “It was just one or two little spots. It may just be four weeks. There’s potential depending on what they find that he may not be out for eight weeks. But generally speaking, most patients will be on blood thinners for two to three months.”

While McGary will miss immediate time, there is no concern for his future. At the same time, the ablation doesn’t necessarily mean he won’t have another episode related to his atrial fibrillation. If it occurs again, he’ll have the same procedure done, with the same recovery, before being cleared to return to football.

McGary will be a big part of Atlanta’s plans moving forward. Before practice Tuesday, Quinn mentioned that McGary was beginning to push Ty Sambrailo at right tackle. While there was never a guarantee McGary would open the year as the Falcons’ starting right tackle, he was drafted in the first round to be a key lineman in the foreseeable future.

 

Also all of that. So I think I'm gonna trust his doctors over an internet doctor.

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16 minutes ago, jazzyburrell said:

Let me address your confusion: Cardiac Ablation is a reactive procedure to Atrial Fibrillation. You guys are so focused on this “minor procedure” you failed to research the condition that requires it (which is a serious and life threatening condition).

The statin you are taking is to lower cholesterol.

The preventative medicine for Atrial Fibrillation is blood thinner, people with Afib are on them permanently (not temporarily).

McGary cannot play contact sports on them, but he needed them for the procedure and will need to stay on them for a while after surgery.

I am just giving you facts. Your own quote said it should take up to 8 weeks to recover, 8 weeks from now, the Falcons will be a 1/4 through the season. 

Any further points you wanna argue? We are on the same side here, I just want to keep your expectations realistic! 

What serious and life threatening condition?  

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17 minutes ago, jazzyburrell said:

Why are you the only medical professional saying it's life threatening?

 

First of all, he’s got this heart problem that is not life threatening,” said Shephal Doshi, a cardiac electrophysiologist and director of cardiac electrophysiology and pacing at Providence Saint John’s Health Center in Santa Monica, Ca. “It’s something that can be fixed and sometimes it takes a couple of times to fix it.

David Chao, a former team doctor with the San Diego Chargers, is not overly concerned about McGary’s condition.

“This certainly sounds scary, but he was cleared by doctors at the combine,” Chao wrote in his preseason newsletter. “The good news is he should be back well before the start of the regular season....“During my NFL medical career, we had players with these procedures in season and the public never even knew about it. McGary should be fine for football in very short order.”

“This won’t affect his ability to play football long term,” Doshi said. 

 

 

 

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