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Sean Weatherspoon on Vic Beasley

89 posts in this topic

7 hours ago, rings639 said:

Call it whatever stat you want, he was the worst graded player from PFF at his position last year.  We can debate rankings or grades from them all day, but they know a lot more and see more than most of our fan base.  My eyes told me he played horrid last year, their grade just confirmed that for me.

So you go by their grades??  :yikes:

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15 hours ago, Draftnut57 said:

Well, as I say all the time,, I'm just glad the fans are not in charge of this team,, We would be dirt. Really and truly ,, Vic could have a probowl  year and still have maybe 3 or 4 sacks,, His tackling alone could make him a pro bowler .. Say it all the time.. It's not how many sacks you have,, it's the entire work, I'd rather him lead in tackles than to lead in sacks.:munch:

He gets paid to sack the QB that's what I expect, he hasn't led in tackling not one time since hes been here. Hes average at best and Ill be glad when hes gone. 

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6 hours ago, Draftnut57 said:

So you go by their grades??  :yikes:

They aren’t an end all be all, nor are anything analytics.  You take it with a grain of salt, most thing analytics are about playing the odds into your favor.  The grades to me are baseline to see if I’m looking at things the same way they are.  I may disagree with rankings and order sometimes, but it’s overall not horribly far off.  If they have someone as the worst in the league, and our fans want to argue that they played well, maybe...just maybe...there is some homerism going on from the fan base.  

I think Trufant is better than this fan base thinks he is, I think Beasley is much worse than this fan base.  I am more concerned with behaviors than outcomes, which is what most analytics focus on.  People think Trufant is a bad corner because he has low INT numbers, but ignore his high pass breakups and lower completion percentage.  They also put Vic on a pedestal because of the sack stays he had in 16, even though at no point other than against the Rams did he inflict his will on opposing offenses like Watt, Bosa, Miller, John Abraham back in the day, did.  

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13 hours ago, falconsd56 said:

No they really don't.

Those flucking idiots made a video that essentially said that anyone can play ss in the NFL.

 

People said five years ago they were idiots for saying running back is the least valuable position in football.  Fast forward five years and now most teams think that as well, hence all the holdouts.  

 

They may have different opinions than me sometimes, but they are knowledgeable.  I’m not knocking everyone on these boards, but there are people who legit think Ryan sucks, Grady shouldn’t have gotten an extension because he doesn’t have high sack numbers (not main priority for a 3 tech, although it is nice if it ends that way), there were like five posts on how we should cut Trufant and keep Alford, even after people explained how cap hits work in each thread.  

 

There are some people on here that know a crap ton more than me, but there some bad takes on almost a daily basis as well.

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17 minutes ago, rings639 said:

People said five years ago they were idiots for saying running back is the least valuable position in football.  Fast forward five years and now most teams think that as well, hence all the holdouts.  

 

They may have different opinions than me sometimes, but they are knowledgeable.  I’m not knocking everyone on these boards, but there are people who legit think Ryan sucks, Grady shouldn’t have gotten an extension because he doesn’t have high sack numbers (not main priority for a 3 tech, although it is nice if it ends that way), there were like five posts on how we should cut Trufant and keep Alford, even after people explained how cap hits work in each thread.  

 

There are some people on here that know a crap ton more than me, but there some bad takes on almost a daily basis as well.

Stopped reading after this nugget of inaccuracy

 

"People said five years ago they were idiots for saying running back is the least valuable position in football.  Fast forward five years and now most teams think that as well, hence all the holdouts"

 

This is so staggeringly wrong.

 

In 2018 the second player picked was a running back

Zeke was a top 5 pick.

There have been huge deals given to the likes of Freeman,Bell, Johnson and others.

Teams place tremendous value on good running backs...both in draft capital and money.

You see hold outs at every position....including WR.........are you going to say that teams do not place extream value on WR's????

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17 minutes ago, falconsd56 said:

Stopped reading after this nugget of inaccuracy

 

"People said five years ago they were idiots for saying running back is the least valuable position in football.  Fast forward five years and now most teams think that as well, hence all the holdouts"

 

This is so staggeringly wrong.

 

In 2018 the second player picked was a running back

Zeke was a top 5 pick.

There have been huge deals given to the likes of Freeman,Bell, Johnson and others.

Teams place tremendous value on good running backs...both in draft capital and money.

You see hold outs at every position....including WR.........are you going to say that teams do not place extream value on WR's????

It isn’t.  The highest RB salary cap hit is 9.75 million in David Johnson.  WR is 19.2 million for Sammy Watkins.  I didn’t say all teams feel this way, but Le’Veon and Barkley, although great at their position, we’re both acquired by bad franchises that have made a lot of bad decisions, including taking Daniel Jones at six overall.

More and more data points to the offensive line having a bigger impact on the outcome of the running game than the running back themselves.  Running backs are still important, but by the time they are ready for their second contract, most become worn down, injury prone and it’s normally wise to move on vs pay them a huge contract.  Less and less Rbs go in the first round than they used to, more of the leagues best backs are being drafted in the 3rd and 4th round.  This isn’t some hot take by me, or PFF, this is one of the most talked about things out there right now and even the running backs themselves are talking about it, most recently Melvin Gordon.  

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On 8/3/2019 at 6:43 PM, rings639 said:

He converted an insanely high amount of his pressures into sacks that year, it was clear then it wasn’t repeatable.  Pressure rate is far more predictable of future success.  It was obvious he had to come back down closer to the mean, just didn’t think he would fall below it for two years.  Sacks are great and all, and an easier stat to track, but people think he was better than he actually was that year because of his sack total, which was a down year across the league.  They have tracked sacks since 99 and 15.5 is tied for the lowest amount for the league leader.  

 

Again, I’m a very positive person, and will gladly eat crow if he turns it around, but I’m also realistic and in his four seasons if we want to talk sacks are 4, 15.5, 5 & 5.  One of those isn’t like the other.  I think he will be in the 6-8 range this year because Quinn will scheme him stunts to get some cleanup sacks Im sure.  I have more hope in Takk breaking out this year than Vic.

Eh, that’s only somewhat true. After his breakout year, they moved him to a different position. This was only his 3rd year into his NFL career. Changing someone’s position after they found success is definitely a big “no no”. When they did finally move him back, the injury bug bit the $hit out of us. So there is a bit more nuance there than most people will care to admit. That being said, I believe 8-10 sacks would be a return to form, not necessarily 15. 

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28 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Eh, that’s only somewhat true. After his breakout year, they moved him to a different position. This was only his 3rd year into his NFL career. Changing someone’s position after they found success is definitely a big “no no”. When they did finally move him back, the injury bug but the $hit out of us. So there is a bit more nuance there than most people will care to admit. That being said, I believe 8-10 sacks would be a return to form, not necessarily 15. 

Very fair.  I’ll be the first one to gladly eat crow if he dominates this year.

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1 hour ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

Eh, that’s only somewhat true. After his breakout year, they moved him to a different position. This was only his 3rd year into his NFL career. Changing someone’s position after they found success is definitely a big “no no”. When they did finally move him back, the injury bug bit the $hit out of us. So there is a bit more nuance there than most people will care to admit. That being said, I believe 8-10 sacks would be a return to form, not necessarily 15. 

Thing is, we very well don’t make playoffs in ‘17 if VB doesn’t make that change. Very unselfish move by a key player that doesn’t get enough cred in here.

Now, 2018 was a clusterfuk year for VB....he looked completely out-of-sync....

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23 hours ago, Vandy said:

Thing is, we very well don’t make playoffs in ‘17 if VB doesn’t make that change. Very unselfish move by a key player that doesn’t get enough cred in here.

Now, 2018 was a clusterfuk year for VB....he looked completely out-of-sync....

I’m not a VB apologist at all. Dude needs to step up big time. However, there were many factors working against him these past few years. Change of position, lack of quality coaching, injured teammates etc.

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4 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

I’m not a VB apologist at all. Dude needs to step up big time. However, there were many factors working against him these past few years. Change of position, lack of quality coaching, injured teammates etc.

I agree completely, including DQ. Let’s hope they didn’t ruin him.

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Just now, Vandy said:

I agree completely, including DQ. Let’s hope they didn’t ruin him.

I don’t think he’s ruined. I think he needs to get his confidence back. If we can get him to 8-10 sacks this season, it could completely change this line. 

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7 minutes ago, Sidecar Falcon said:

I don’t think he’s ruined. I think he needs to get his confidence back. If we can get him to 8-10 sacks this season, it could completely change this line. 

Truth. As you know sidecar, confidence is everything. 

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