Spts1

Why I believe Koetter replaced Sarkisian ( Erhardt-Perkins system)

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Posted (edited)

I finally figured this thing out by accident while doing some research on some NFL plays.  Quinn runs a simple defense. Here is why I think he replaced Sarkisian on the other side of the ball.

I stumbled upon the Erhardt-Perkins system.  The Patriots run this system and a few other NFL teams.  I discovered that the basis for Koetter's system is the same system.  Some of you already know this but for those who don't know and didn't know  ( that includes me), the Erhardt-Perkins system is a SIMPLE system ( terminology of the plays) that is based on concepts.  The reason this is important because there are 3 systems run primarily in the NFL:  West Coast, Air Coryell and the aforementioned Perkins system.  In Air Coryell and West Coast, the terminology of the plays is soo complex that offenses become inefficient and inflexible.  More time is spent THINKING about what to do and it leads to ineffective offenses.  A example of a Air Coryell play is this:  Scatter-Two Bunch-Right-Zip-Fire 2 Jet Texas Right-F Flat X-Q.    You have this long sentence breaking down the receiver groups, formation, routes, blocking, where the back lines up etc.  Its soo complex that its hard to plug and play different receivers into the game and maintain a flow.  

In Koetter's Perkins system,  which is based on CONCEPTS, a play would be three, four words at most.  A word would describe a concept, that concept will tell the receivers what routes to run.  Example out of the Patriot playbook:   F Left 73 Ghost Tosser.   F Left is the formation.  Its telling the receivers and running back that its a 2x2 formation with the running back lined up offset to the same side as the tight end.  The quarterback will make a five step drop.

2018-05-14_11-43-36.png?resize=800%2C179&ssl=1

73 is the pass protection. Its a 70 series protection.  The offensive line slides AWAY from the second number in the call.  The left side of the line is odd numbers and the right side is even numbers.  So in a 73 call, the second number is 3,  the line will slide AWAY from the 3 hole and pick up the Will if he is in the box.  ( it gets a little more complicated here depending on what the Will is doing, this is where the quarterback will make secondary calls.)

Ghost is a two man route concept.with the number 1 receiver running a go route and the 2 receiver running a a 10 yard out.  These rules apply to those two receivers REGARDLESS OF THE PERSONNEL GROUPING OR FORMATION.  When the quarterback comes to the line he does a presnap read.  If the defense is in cover 3 he will stick with the Ghost concept.  Lets say he comes to the line and they are in cover 2.  He will call TOSSER.  This tells the number 1 receiver and the number 2 receiver to run slants. REGARDLESS OF THE PERSONNEL GROUPING OR FORMATION thats what the number 1 and number 2 receiver are gonna do.

This was the BASIC outline of the CONCEPTS system.  It allows the offensive coordinator and quarterback to run no huddle, quick offenses with different personnel groups running on and off the field with everybody on the same page.  Nobody is out on the field wondering what the heck they are suppose to do because they are trying to remember their part of a long terminology play call.  They learn their concepts and you can plug and play.  Again, the concept would be one word to explain many things.  

THIS is why I believe they moved on from Sarkisian.  Its not that he is a bad coordinator, its that the Falcons can be more explosive down the field because everybody is more on the same page.

Edited by slickgadawg

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I agree some parts of EP will make their way into our playbook.  Especially with the dominance of Mahomes & Brady in the system.  But the terminology will remain lengthy.  That’s something everyone agreed upon: the foundation and terminology will remain in place.  

 

By Percentages, my guess is:

65% Falcons/Shanny playbook

15% Sark plays that were effective

20% Koetter/Mularkey new plays 

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21 minutes ago, slickgadawg said:

I finally figured this thing out by accident while doing some research on some NFL plays.  Quinn runs a simple defense. Here is why I think he replaced Sarkisian on the other side of the ball.

I stumbled upon the Erhardt-Perkins system.  The Patriots run this system and a few other NFL teams.  I discovered that the basis for Koetter's system is the same system.  Some of you already know this but for those who don't know and didn't know  ( that includes me), the Erhardt-Perkins system is a SIMPLE system ( terminology of the plays) that is based on concepts.  The reason this is important because there are 3 systems run primarily in the NFL:  West Coast, Air Coryell and the aforementioned Perkins system.  In Air Coryell and West Coast, the terminology of the plays is soo complex that offenses become inefficient and inflexible.  More time is spent THINKING about what to do and it leads to ineffective offenses.  A example of a Air Coryell play is this:  Scatter-Two Bunch-Right-Zip-Fire 2 Jet Texas Right-F Flat X-Q.    You have this long sentence breaking down the receiver groups, formation, routes, blocking, where the back lines up etc.  Its soo complex that its hard to plug and play different receivers into the game and maintain a flow.  

In Koetter's Perkins system,  which is based on CONCEPTS, a play would be three, four words at most.  A word would describe a concept, that concept will tell the receivers what routes to run.  Example out of the Patriot playbook:   F Left 73 Ghost Tosser.   F Left is the formation.  Its telling the receivers and running back that its a 2x2 formation with the running back lined up offset to the same side as the tight end.  The quarterback will make a five step drop.

2018-05-14_11-43-36.png?resize=800%2C179&ssl=1

73 is the pass protection. Its a 70 series protection.  The offensive line slides AWAY from the second number in the call.  The left side of the line is odd numbers and the right side is even numbers.  So in a 73 call, the second number is 3,  the line will slide AWAY from the 3 hole and pick up the Will if he is in the box.  ( it gets a little more complicated here depending on what the Will is doing, this is where the quarterback will make secondary calls.)

Ghost is a two man route concept.with the number 1 receiver running a go route and the 2 receiver running a a 10 yard out.  These rules apply to those two receivers REGARDLESS OF THE PERSONNEL GROUPING OR FORMATION.  When the quarterback comes to the line he does a presnap read.  If the defense is in cover 3 he will stick with the Ghost concept.  Lets say he comes to the line and they are in cover 2.  He will call TOSSER.  This tells the number 1 receiver and the number 2 receiver to run slants. REGARDLESS OF THE PERSONNEL GROUPING OR FORMATION thats what the number 1 and number 2 receiver are gonna do.

This was the BASIC outline of the CONCEPTS system.  It allows the offensive coordinator and quarterback to run no huddle, quick offenses with different personnel groups running on and off the field with everybody on the same page.  Nobody is out on the field wondering what the heck they are suppose to do because they are trying to remember their part of a long terminology play call.  They learn their concepts and you can plug and play.  Again, the concept would be one word to explain many things.  

THIS is why I believe they moved on from Sarkisian.  Its not that he is a bad coordinator, its that the Falcons can be more explosive down the field because everybody is more on the same page.

He switched because DK attacks defenses like Kyle does. Hard and fierce. Plus his feel of the game. Like Kyle’s. It’s not so much about the system because they didn’t want to change systems again. So it will primarily remain kyles system with DK’s system sprinkled within. The terminology is still kyles so the system isn’t really changing. It’s tweaking but the base is still kyles. 

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3 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

He switched because DK attacks defenses like Kyle does. Hard and fierce. Plus his feel of the game. Like Kyle’s. It’s not so much about the system because they didn’t want to change systems again. So it will primarily remain kyles system with DK’s system sprinkled within. The terminology is still kyles so the system isn’t really changing. It’s tweaking but the base is still kyles. 

Agreed.  But Shanny & Dirk share a common skillset that is rare: an ability to scheme explosive plays open.

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13 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

I agree some parts of EP will make their way into our playbook.  Especially with the dominance of Mahomes & Brady in the system.  But the terminology will remain lengthy.  That’s something everyone agreed upon: the foundation and terminology will remain in place.  

 

By Percentages, my guess is:

65% Falcons/Shanny playbook

15% Sark plays that were effective

20% Koetter/Mularkey new plays 

They agreed to keep the Shanny West Coast system but are gonna run a hybrid of the above?  I can see them wanting to maintain the continuity.  Maybe in key parts of the game they will run Perkins ( run no huddle)...

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1 minute ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Agreed.  But Shanny & Dirk share a common skillset that is rare: an ability to scheme explosive plays open.

Absolutely!!! 

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5 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

He switched because DK attacks defenses like Kyle does. Hard and fierce. Plus his feel of the game. Like Kyle’s. It’s not so much about the system because they didn’t want to change systems again. So it will primarily remain kyles system with DK’s system sprinkled within. The terminology is still kyles so the system isn’t really changing. It’s tweaking but the base is still kyles. 

I know they are more vertical than Sark was.  Gonna be interesting to see how much of Koetter's Perkin system they do implement with Kyle's system.  I'm gonna pay more attention this season to the system thats being run...

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I don't know. Part of me agrees, but part of me sees them looking to get back to being vastly explosive. I don't think that's scheme limited. A lot of that system has no basis for what Andy Reid does, for example. It's all new and adjusted for 2019 football. I see some of the same happening here, with concepts and plays that transcend scheme. There is no way you can have this many offensive coaches from this many different trees and try and label it one thing. 

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Just now, FalconsIn2020 said:

@slickgadawg

Very nice write up and solid analysis.  You did some homework on this post.  These are my favorite kinds of threads cause the football junkies will matriculate here and we can all learn a bit

Thanx.  I did my best with what I could figure out.  I love talking the x and o part of football more than the other parts of the game.  Feel free to add on to what I was saying...

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Posted (edited)

4 minutes ago, Smiler11 said:

I always thought Koetter was more of an Air Coryell guy with his 4 verticals concepts.

Koetter IS a vertical guy.  The systems can be hybrids of each other...

Edited by slickgadawg

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2 hours ago, slickgadawg said:

 

Good perspective.

I get a feeling that people are putting to much emphasis on Shanahans further influence. A simplifying direction might not be a bad way to go. Imo you need to have a solid foundation to be able to build upon it. This might be it. 

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one staple of the EP system, which I have studied for a while, is that it mixes zone and power run blocking concepts. It has a ball control element to it which probably appealed to DQ's statements about being more physical. The only thing that I hated about Koetter the first time was the long developing vertical routes. Now granted, its a different receiving corps and malarkey will surely bring some of his smash mouth aspects to it.

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Just now, MSalmon said:

one staple of the EP system, which I have studied for a while, is that it mixes zone and power run blocking concepts. It has a ball control element to it which probably appealed to DQ's statements about being more physical. The only thing that I hated about Koetter the first time was the long developing vertical routes. Now granted, its a different receiving corps and malarkey will surely bring some of his smash mouth aspects to it.

Perfect fit for our draft picks. 

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7 minutes ago, Flare said:

Perfect fit for our draft picks. 

@Knight of God and @Vandy have discussed that quite a bit. The mauling RT (McGary) and savvy G (Lindstrom) that can play power or zone and adding in Brown and Carpenter signings you see a trend towards a more physical and grinding offense, with elements of explosiveness due to our receivers. The running back pick in Ollie was interesting as well because he's just powerful. Might we see him get carries later in games or in in climate weather where the passing game is less effective?

While we didn't put as much in DL as most of us would like, I kinda see a more smash mouth offense as an extension of the defense, as it's about exacting your will upon opponents and keeps your DL fresh.

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25 minutes ago, MSalmon said:

one staple of the EP system, which I have studied for a while, is that it mixes zone and power run blocking concepts. It has a ball control element to it which probably appealed to DQ's statements about being more physical. The only thing that I hated about Koetter the first time was the long developing vertical routes. Now granted, its a different receiving corps and malarkey will surely bring some of his smash mouth aspects to it.

Great insight.

The easiest EP model to emulate is the Patriots.  They stress a defense horizontally in the pass game and North/South in the run game.  Once that is established they bust the seams and kill you with crossers.  But their key is ball control...either running or passing.  This protects Brady and helps the OL.

Koetter can attack a defense vertically.  But he does his OL no favors by asking them to hold up in pass Pro an extra .5 seconds

Each of the coaches we brought in have limitations.  But one coach’s weakness is another coach’s strength.  Very clever hiring

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3 hours ago, Smiler11 said:

I always thought Koetter was more of an Air Coryell guy with his 4 verticals concepts.

EP mainly denotes the language of the system, more specifically the simplicity of the language. It doesn’t have the same stereotypes of a WCO working horizontally and a coryell working vertically.

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21 minutes ago, SkerFalcon8710 said:

One thing i will enjoy is dirks scripted plays to start a game, that man marched us down the field relentlessly in 2012 on opening drives 

The 2016 offense had the record for scoring on the opening drive. 

 

-In 14 of 18 games played prior to the Super Bowl, the Falcons have scored on their opening drive. In those 14 games, the team is 12-2.”

 

found on some random site 

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19 minutes ago, droopy1592 said:

The 2016 offense had the record for scoring on the opening drive. 

 

-In 14 of 18 games played prior to the Super Bowl, the Falcons have scored on their opening drive. In those 14 games, the team is 12-2.”

 

found on some random site 

I mean nothing compares to 16’... 

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1 hour ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Great insight.

The easiest EP model to emulate is the Patriots.  They stress a defense horizontally in the pass game and North/South in the run game.  Once that is established they bust the seams and kill you with crossers.  But their key is ball control...either running or passing.  This protects Brady and helps the OL.

Koetter can attack a defense vertically.  But he does his OL no favors by asking them to hold up in pass Pro an extra .5 seconds

Each of the coaches we brought in have limitations.  But one coach’s weakness is another coach’s strength.  Very clever hiring

Good points. 

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3 hours ago, FentayeJones said:

If I were to label the offense I would call it Matt Ryan's offense. It incoporates concepts that he likes from all of his previous coordinators - including Sark.

Exactly, just with a more strategically capable OC and gave him help with run game/OL/TE side; not necessarily DK’s strength.

@FalconsIn2020 regarding verbiage, apparently DK and MM all got together and cleaned up the verbiage a bit so it’s not quite so long. Just from what I recall back in the spring...

 

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