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Nats @ Braves

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It's bad enough we are losing, but to be giving up football scores while only scoring 1or 2 runs, is pathetic. That's more than just a "we're in a slump"

 

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1 hour ago, sdogg said:

It's bad enough we are losing, but to be giving up football scores while only scoring 1or 2 runs, is pathetic. That's more than just a "we're in a slump"

 

We can't pitch, and we've known it all year. We're currently 8th in the NL runs allowed and closer to 13th (out of 15) than 7th. What's different is that we've cooled off with the bats, something I mentioned worried me a few weeks ago. When we're not being historic on offense, we're just like everybody else in baseball this year.

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So... we got taken out back behind the woodshed, punched in the mouth, and then struggled to get up after the 10 count. We need to respond today and show them that they can't just show up in our house, wipe their azes all over our stuff and think they will just get away with it. 

Time to strike back and show them we are the class of the division. 

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Well, color me purple I didn't expect them to call up Weigel, but the reason why is probably because he was gonna pitch tonight, so he's available for LR today and tomorrow, then he goes back down.

I don't think Parsons is much more than a JAG based off batting splits off him in Gwinnett.

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59 minutes ago, JDFIII said:

Weigel could be a showcase too.....

I wouldn't bring any of these pitchers up here to showcase unless they are ok with them lowering their stock.

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2 hours ago, K26dp said:

The Braves have called up Wes Parsons and Patrick Weigel (first major league call-up).

Kyle Wright and Touki Toussaint were optioned to Gwinnett.

That's terrific news about Weigel. When he blew out his arm in 2017, he was an eyelash away from getting called up. It's a shame he had to wait until he was 25 to make the majors. He was ready at 23.

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Just now, Malachore said:

I wouldn't bring any of these pitchers up here to showcase unless they are ok with them lowering their stock.

He was arguably the best pitcher in our system 2 years ago. They may be showing him against MLB hitters so he can be a center-piece in a trade. It is possible.

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Just now, JDFIII said:

He was arguably the best pitcher in our system 2 years ago. They may be showing him against MLB hitters so he can be a center-piece in a trade. It is possible.

Yes but my point is all these kids have done is **** themselves outside of a couple.

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1 minute ago, JDFIII said:

He was arguably the best pitcher in our system 2 years ago. They may be showing him against MLB hitters so he can be a center-piece in a trade. It is possible.

I think it's the opposite. Weigel's somebody we probably like better than other teams. Some of the floundering young arms have more value, as other organizations likely feel that these kids haven't been placed in a good position to succeed. It's the reverse of what happened with Folty in Houston. They dealt him because they'd lost faith and had other pressing needs. 

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2 minutes ago, Malachore said:

Yes but my point is all these kids have done is **** themselves outside of a couple.

I'm the most frustrated with Touki. I know that K26 keeps saying that his problem is that he's a starter. I'm perfectly willing to accept that he'd be more comfortable in the first inning. Still, he'd have to start getting *somebody* out before I'd believe that he's an MLB pitcher.

I cringe when we bring him into games. He's given up more runs than innings pitched in three straight games and four out of his last five. 

With Wright, he needs to get his confidence back by dominating minor league pitching. I don't really want to see him in a Braves uniform again this year, barring something unforeseen.

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Just now, jidady said:

I think it's the opposite. Weigel's somebody we probably like better than other teams. Some of the floundering young arms have more value, as other organizations likely feel that these kids haven't been placed in a good position to succeed. It's the reverse of what happened with Folty in Houston. They dealt him because they'd lost faith and had other pressing needs. 

I can def understand where you are coming from. It was just a thought. Also, as far as success, I agree somewhat. I think you must fail before you succeed most of the time in life. Soroka is a rare exception, and even he did somewhat with health. Each time they go out, they get a chance to learn and figure things out. If they are talented enough, they will win over the long term.

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I completely agree with your philosophy here. Soroka's someone I always felt great about since he's a ground ball pitcher. Power arms get all the headlines, but when you can't locate at 95+, you provide the power for the hitters. You're doing their job for them. With sinkers, you're forcing bats to hit over the ball and drive it into the ground.

The learning curve with power pitchers is how well they can make people swing and miss consistently. Folty's a great example of someone who gets tons of strikeouts but doesn't make people miss enough. Mike Minor was a guy who had decent velocity but whose delivery and movement would get tons of swinging strikes. None of the other kids we tanked to get really have that yet.

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4 minutes ago, jidady said:

I'm the most frustrated with Touki. I know that K26 keeps saying that his problem is that he's a starter. I'm perfectly willing to accept that he'd be more comfortable in the first inning. Still, he'd have to start getting *somebody* out before I'd believe that he's an MLB pitcher.

I cringe when we bring him into games. He's given up more runs than innings pitched in three straight games and four out of his last five. 

With Wright, he needs to get his confidence back by dominating minor league pitching. I don't really want to see him in a Braves uniform again this year, barring something unforeseen.

Wilson, Wright and Touki.

Hope I never see them in Atlanta again. Get someone who can help us now and thin this herd.

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10 minutes ago, Malachore said:

Wilson, Wright and Touki.

Hope I never see them in Atlanta again. Get someone who can help us now and thin this herd.

I mean, you're being silly right now. Bryse is 21, and the other two are 23. We're talking about Weigel, who had 1 1/2 seasons of lost baseball, making the majors for the first time today at 25. We're certainly not going to give up on the three of them for the long term, nor should we. If we can get a viable MLB starter for two of our high-profile pitching prospects, we should do that, though. It's not an either/or. It's a "depends on the situation." 

All we know for sure right now is that Wright and Touki aren't finished baking. Wilson's a smaller sample size and thereby tougher to gauge. On July 3rd against a decent Philly lineup, he looked ready. Then, he was back to bad habits away at Milwaukee, which is a tough place for kids to play.

Right now, if I could only buy stock in one, I'd probably take Bryse since he's younger and has shown more. I don't know what we've done to Wright, but it's infuriating to watch. That kid was a stud at Vandy, but he's broken in 2019. 

I draw three conclusions about our situation right now:

1) No matter how much you try to rig the system, it's all but impossible to beat the house.

2) Stacking the deck with young arms is a mistake unless you're really willing to work out trades before they hit the majors.

3) Always build your organization around position players. They're safer and matter more on a daily basis. 

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1 hour ago, jidady said:

I mean, you're being silly right now. Bryse is 21, and the other two are 23. We're talking about Weigel, who had 1 1/2 seasons of lost baseball, making the majors for the first time today at 25. We're certainly not going to give up on the three of them for the long term, nor should we. If we can get a viable MLB starter for two of our high-profile pitching prospects, we should do that, though. It's not an either/or. It's a "depends on the situation." 

All we know for sure right now is that Wright and Touki aren't finished baking. Wilson's a smaller sample size and thereby tougher to gauge. On July 3rd against a decent Philly lineup, he looked ready. Then, he was back to bad habits away at Milwaukee, which is a tough place for kids to play.

Right now, if I could only buy stock in one, I'd probably take Bryse since he's younger and has shown more. I don't know what we've done to Wright, but it's infuriating to watch. That kid was a stud at Vandy, but he's broken in 2019. 

I draw three conclusions about our situation right now:

1) No matter how much you try to rig the system, it's all but impossible to beat the house.

2) Stacking the deck with young arms is a mistake unless you're really willing to work out trades before they hit the majors.

3) Always build your organization around position players. They're safer and matter more on a daily basis. 

When I say what I say it's because of points 2 and 3 of your post.

I hope we trade then for something useful because I don't trust them to be that here. All 3 of them look the same to me. Throws a hard but hittable fastball and can't throw strikes most of the time.

Everyone knows I've got very little patience, team can win now and they ain't doing it for another 2 or 3 years minimum with the pitchers they have in the minors.

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2 hours ago, Malachore said:

I wouldn't bring any of these pitchers up here to showcase unless they are ok with them lowering their stock.

Lol

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, jidady said:

I don't know what we've done to Wright, but it's infuriating to watch. That kid was a stud at Vandy, but he's broken in 2019. 

Based off the numbers on his pitch movement from this year compared to last year, we've tinkered with him big time and he's still working on the tinkers (which quite honestly, I question if they are mistakes). I think it had to be him up yesterday, not as a showcase, but because we managed/unfortunate injury'd ourselves into it unless you wanted to twist Snitker's leg into legitimately bullpenning on Saturday since it's not something he likes. The thing is at times with us doing this, we end up bullpenning anyway at times because of the pitching being awful.

Why are we tinkering with Wright anyway? Well, because when he came up last year, he had a fastball (4-seamer) that was pretty straight, despite a high spin rate on it. His breaking pitches had pretty ridiculous movement though. I saw in one of my many other channels, that his breaking pitches having pretty ridiculous movement was probably the cause for his fastball being straight and if the Braves tinkered with it, it could cause a drop off in movement of his breaking pitches. Well, since the Braves prefer pitching off of the fastball and won't let you go completely in the path of McCullers'ing (throwing your breaking pitches more than the fastball), they chose the pathway of tinker with the fastball to try to get more movement. Now, since I'm not an expert here, I don't know how much the drop off in movement is causing him to go from mediocre results like he had last year in that short cameo to straight bad, but tinkering with the fastball did cause Wright's breaking pitches to drop off in movement.

Basically, right now, this is an absolute mess with him. I'm thinking that his last shot to produce as a Brave, despite him not necessarily being old, is if the Braves realize that tinkering with his 4-seamer caused his breaking stuff to drop off some, and they choose to scrap the 4 entirely. He can likely get back to his breaking pitches moving more like they originally were with a 2-seam grip instead of a 4-seam grip. His 2-seamer has some nice movement, and if he can command it as his main fastball, he can still turn into something for our purposes.

If that doesn't happen, then he's going to get traded, and if he's not another Fulmer (or Beede, but he's another case where tinkering screwed him up to an extent too), we'll be talking about in a few years about how he's another Schmidt/Morton/or for a non-Brave, Glasnow, one that got away from us. But, in the end, it'll be about how he didn't fit our philosophy if so.

Edited by VoiceofReason95

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2 hours ago, jidady said:

I'm the most frustrated with Touki. I know that K26 keeps saying that his problem is that he's a starter. I'm perfectly willing to accept that he'd be more comfortable in the first inning. Still, he'd have to start getting *somebody* out before I'd believe that he's an MLB pitcher.

I cringe when we bring him into games. He's given up more runs than innings pitched in three straight games and four out of his last five. 

With Wright, he needs to get his confidence back by dominating minor league pitching. I don't really want to see him in a Braves uniform again this year, barring something unforeseen.

Here's my take on Kyle Wright. He did not pitch well last night. But if Acuna doesn't turn a single into a triple and if Ender doesn't turn an out into a double that inning turns out a lot differently. At most he would have given up only 2 runs. But it still falls on him to get the hitters out after that. It appears to me that his confidence is at a very fragile place right now and when adversity strikes he's not able to respond.

One of the biggest reasons I'm such a fan of Max Fried and was clamoring for him to start regularly since last season was because I saw a guy that doesn't get rattled. Sure he's struggled at times this season but I have never once thought that he was rattled. Soroka and Fried both are mentally tough pitchers. They don't get rattled by adversity. Fried just has to figure out how to stop having the blister problems. If he figures that out then he's a stud and a tandem of him and Soroka is a really good place to start piecing together a rotation for 2020.

But back to Kyle Wright, this kid has very limited professional baseball. We need to remember that. It's way too early to make a claim about him one way or the other and I'm not saying you are, just quoted your post because it goes along well with what I'm saying about Wright's confidence. Right now Kyle Wright is Matt Wisler 2.0 and that's a scary thought to me. Wisler was also a first round pick and has great stuff but has never been able to mentally put it together.

The alarming thing about all these young pitchers dominating in the minors and then struggling in the majors is that they all seem to struggle with the same issue, trusting their stuff and confidence. I don't know how the Braves process of developing young pitchers has changed since the 90s, but I don't recall young pitchers struggling as mightily then as they do today. I'm interested in wondering if the Braves need to take a step back and try a new approach? Maybe hire a full-time sports psychologist and try to get to the root issue of why guys like Wright can completely dominate Gwinnett and then struggle so bad in the majors.

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2 hours ago, Malachore said:

Wilson, Wright and Touki.

Hope I never see them in Atlanta again. Get someone who can help us now and thin this herd.

Bryse Wilson has been the youngest pitcher to pitch in a game in the NL this year.

Personally, I believe Bryse Wilson's long-term future should be as a closer or top notch setup man. He made one relief appearance earlier this year and was completely lights out and I saw a different guy than I have when he's started games.

Wright, I've already given my assessment of him in the post above this one.

Touki, I'm personally not a fan of him. Never really have been impressed by him and I would trade him in a heartbeat. IMO he's Julio Teheran 2.0.

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