FalconsIn2020

The Koetter Identity

100 posts in this topic

11 minutes ago, vel said:

Jimmy is fine. He's not the game changing QB people make him out to be. Teams hadn't seen Jimmy yet, so it was inflated. Once teams adjusted to Jimmy, they went 1-2. It's just like when Foles went on that run. Teams were used to gameplanning for Wentz, not Foles, so they didn't know what to do. Let's see Jimmy play a full season, but I'm not on board with Jimmy being much more than an average QB. 

Time may prove your point.  I think he is a top 10 QB.  But we need more film.  

My opinion of him is mostly based off Belichick being willing to trade Brady to keep Jimmy.

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On ‎7‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 3:00 PM, FalconsIn2020 said:

Yes, I know this sounds like the Bourne Identity.

 

So I created s thread a few days ago about Koetter and how he should be more effective in the Falcons/Shanny playbook than Sark.  And I still believe that.

However, someone asked for some Tampa plays and I went back and watched.  It was discouraging.  Especially on the redzone.  First and foremost, he used 11 personnel on nearly every single snap.  No creativity.  They also do next to nothing in terms of motion or groupings to win presnap.  They simply don’t motion or window dress their plays.  Like Sark, he appears to win on talent over scheme.  The 2012 Seahawks playoff game and this video below are not impressive.  

Primary Concern: he moves the ball but can’t find the end zone.  Last year he called one game for the Bucs.  The output: 3 points.  In fact, in games where Koetter called the plays since 2015, they average 20.5 ppg 

As JD and Vel mentioned, hopefully people like Morris, Knapp, Mularkey & MATT RYAN have s big say in how the offense looks.  It needs pre snap motion & Ryan under Center with hard play action.  Unfortunately, Koetter doesnt use much of either.  

A paradigm shift in his philosophy is needed if we are going to hoist a Lombardi next year

 

 

7

Koetter is the game-day head coach Knapp  is OC

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39 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Time may prove your point.  I think he is a top 10 QB.  But we need more film.  

My opinion of him is mostly based off Belichick being willing to trade Brady to keep Jimmy.

Willing to but didn't my friend. Top ten is absurd. 

Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Ryan, Wilson, Newton, Rivers, Mahomes, Luck, Berger, Watson

Jimmy has potential. Hasn't shown he can handle teams adjusting to his game nor play a full 16 games. I don't know if I'm putting him over Stafford either. He can be top ten, but I ain't ranking him near that until he plays 16 games and produces a winning season with it. 

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6 minutes ago, vel said:

Willing to but didn't my friend. Top ten is absurd. 

Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Ryan, Wilson, Newton, Rivers, Mahomes, Luck, Berger, Watson

Jimmy has potential. Hasn't shown he can handle teams adjusting to his game nor play a full 16 games. I don't know if I'm putting him over Stafford either. He can be top ten, but I ain't ranking him near that until he plays 16 games and produces a winning season with it. 

I’ll take him over Watson and Newton at the moment. If Cam is healthy and motivated, that’s a different story

 

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5 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

I’ll take him over Watson and Newton at the moment. If Cam is healthy and motivated, that’s a different story

 

Again, what Jimmy G did in 2017 is no different than what Nick Foles did. It's a small sample size. Cam has won an MVP trophy. They aren't anywhere near the same grouping until Jimmy proves he can do it for 16. You're assuming he can. Watson took the Texans to the playoffs. Jimmy has started 9 games in his career. 

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1 minute ago, vel said:

Again, what Jimmy G did in 2017 is no different than what Nick Foles did. It's a small sample size. Cam has won an MVP trophy. They aren't anywhere near the same grouping until Jimmy proves he can do it for 16. You're assuming he can. Watson took the Texans to the playoffs. Jimmy has started 9 games in his career. 

We will see.  I think he is a franchise QB for the 49ers.  Could have won SB’s in NE.  This is a guy I love for his analysis.  He agrees with you, Jimmy G isn’t perfect.  But it’s a great film room

 

 

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11 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

I’ll take him over Watson and Newton at the moment. If Cam is healthy and motivated, that’s a different story

 

Brady, Rodgers, Ryan, Wilson, Wentz, Luck, Ben, Goff, Brees, and Rivers are all QB's that I would say are definitely better than Jimmy at this current time. 

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10 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

Brady, Rodgers, Ryan, Wilson, Wentz, Luck, Ben, Goff, Brees, and Rivers are all QB's that I would say are definitely better than Jimmy at this current time. 

I’d agree with all but Goff.  

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Just now, FalconsIn2020 said:

I’d agree with all but Goff.  

Would you agree that Goff has had more success though? Jimmy may have a higher ceiling,  but he hasn’t proven that he’s a better player than Goff...yet

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1 hour ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

Would you agree that Goff has had more success though? Jimmy may have a higher ceiling,  but he hasn’t proven that he’s a better player than Goff...yet

That's my stance. I can't, in any degree of confidence, say Jimmy G is better than players with multiple years of 16 games played. It's like people putting Baker Mayfield over Matt Ryan. I need 32 games played at minimum. That gives you two full seasons and a chance for the NFL to adjust to your game, you adjust back and grow as a QB. We saw this happen with Derek Carr, where people thought he was better than Matt during the 2016 season because he was looking pretty good, only to be shown as a very mediocre QB. Same with Dak. Not saying Jimmy is those guys, but once the NFL adjusts, if you can't adjust back, you'll be figured out. 

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1 hour ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

Would you agree that Goff has had more success though? Jimmy may have a higher ceiling,  but he hasn’t proven that he’s a better player than Goff...yet

Yes he has.  No doubt about it.  

But if you asked me which QB I would like on the Falcons this year if Ryan retired, I am taking Jimmy G over Goff

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5 hours ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

You’re right about the injuries.  

But our offense wasn’t nearly as balanced or efficient the last two years.  Raw numbers, yes. But fewer yards on 100 more pass attempts just doesn’t show the efficiency or explosiveness we had in 2016.  And we had a more talented offensive roster last year.

With regards to HC Shannahan.  I don’t know.  Maybe he is a bum.  I do know Mullens and CJ Bethard are not going to win you games in the NFL.  At least with Jimmy G they went 7-2 and averaged 29 ppg.   I could see them pushing the Rams for that division

Banged up/losing freeman was the biggest reason for lack of balance, IMO. 

Not saying Shanny is a bum, he did a great job in 2016. But he struggled for much of 2015 just as Sark did in his 1st season 2017, and has struggled in SF (as one would expect BTW, cubbard was completely bare when he got there)

I thought Sark was fine last year, especially considering he lost his #1 RB and both starting OG’s. Still finished 6th NFL Total offense. 

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27 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Yes he has.  No doubt about it.  

But if you asked me which QB I would like on the Falcons this year if Ryan retired, I am taking Jimmy G over Goff

Neither for me. Give me Deshaun Watson over both.

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6 hours ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Yes he has.  No doubt about it.  

But if you asked me which QB I would like on the Falcons this year if Ryan retired, I am taking Jimmy G over Goff

That's foolish.

Garrapolo has NEVER played more than 5 consecutive games as a pro without being injured. Every player's most important ability is their availability. In Brady's suspension year, he couldn't make it past ONE GAME without getting injured. Goff is mediocre at best--- but he is mediocrity that you can count on playing every week.

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14 hours ago, Roanoke Falcon said:

That's foolish.

Garrapolo has NEVER played more than 5 consecutive games as a pro without being injured. Every player's most important ability is their availability. In Brady's suspension year, he couldn't make it past ONE GAME without getting injured. Goff is mediocre at best--- but he is mediocrity that you can count on playing every week.

We will have to revisit a year from now.  Availability is key.  Jimmy G needs to show he can stay on the field.  But what he has shown on the field can be special

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Koetter bout to unleash Matt Ryan it’s gonna be all on him now I see a lot of no huddle this year.

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5 minutes ago, MadeManshad said:

Koetter bout to unleash Matt Ryan it’s gonna be all on him now I see a lot of no huddle this year.

Ryan’s best 3 years had no real no huddle 

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On 7/13/2019 at 2:00 PM, FalconsIn2020 said:

So I created s thread a few days ago about Koetter and how he should be more effective in the Falcons/Shanny playbook than Sark.  And I still believe th

We’re keeping the same playbook? Kutty ain’t coming in installing his stuff?

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38 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

We’re keeping the same playbook? Kutty ain’t coming in installing his stuff?

As I know you know, the playbook will have new wrinkles; however, Quinn wants Koetter and Co. to adopt to the Falcons scheme, not vice versa.  So the WCO and terminology all remain.  

If I was going by % I would guess:

- 65% Shanny/Falcons playbook

- 15% Sark/Falcons playbook

- 20% Koetter/Mularkey additions to playbook

 

And I am thrilled about that.  I am not certain we have the pass blocking to be great in Air Coryell/4 Verts.  But things like 525 Post Swing and Bang 8’s should be incorporated.  I just don’t like the stress AC scheme puts on the OL

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35 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

As I know you know, the playbook will have new wrinkles; however, Quinn wants Koetter and Co. to adopt to the Falcons scheme, not vice versa.  So the WCO and terminology all remain.  

If I was going by % I would guess:

- 65% Shanny/Falcons playbook

- 15% Sark/Falcons playbook

- 20% Koetter/Mularkey additions to playbook

 

And I am thrilled about that.  I am not certain we have the pass blocking to be great in Air Coryell/4 Verts.  But things like 525 Post Swing and Bang 8’s should be incorporated.  I just don’t like the stress AC scheme puts on the OL

Oh Lordy. I don’t get Quinn’s obsession with keeping Shanny’s playbook but not hiring someone from that tree to run it.

Hopefully it’ll work out this time. 

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13 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Oh Lordy. I don’t get Quinn’s obsession with keeping Shanny’s playbook but not hiring someone from that tree to run it.

Hopefully it’ll work out this time. 

You and I had this exact discussion during Sark’s struggles in 2017.  Is it smart to hire an OC yet force him to use someone else’s playbook?  Neither of us thought so...but I don’t love Koetter’s playbook so I’m glad they are trying.

My preference was Bevell or Rich Scangerello but hopefully I am wrong

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18 minutes ago, PeytonMannings Forehead said:

Oh Lordy. I don’t get Quinn’s obsession with keeping Shanny’s playbook but not hiring someone from that tree to run it.

Hopefully it’ll work out this time. 

Here is some info on the philosophy:

“The Falcons offense is looking to get back on track after losing some momentum after Kyle Shanahan left for the San Francisco 49ers head coaching job.

But just this week, Mularkey had some interesting comments on being sort of a rookie when it comes to the offensive scheme:

"It’s less of Dirk and I’s offense. It’s still more of a Shanahan style. That was a challenge for Dirk coming in here, and myself — more so a challenge for him because he has to call the game. I don’t have to do that, but I have to teach it, and it’s important that I teach it like I invented it. It’s been a challenge because I have to learn a whole new system. It’s like a rookie coming in here with all new terminology.”

What did you takeaway from his comments?

"The way that I read that is basically what I heard from Steve Sarkisian two summers ago," Andy Bunker said.

Randy McMichael said while that may be true, it's a different situation for Koetter and Mularkey.

"I think this is a lot different," McMichael said. "I think Dirk Koetter is a more accomplished play-caller than Steve Sarkisian. So that's why I say it's not really that big of deal."

"To come to a place where you're asked to assimilate yourself to a different style, to me that says more than anything is that Dirk Koetter wants to work with Matt Ryan," Bunker added.

 

Mularkey Interview on Learning Shanny/Falcons playbook: https://www.atlantafalcons.com/video/mularkey-on-run-scheme-playing-faster

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6 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

You and I had this exact discussion during Sark’s struggles in 2017.  Is it smart to hire an OC yet force him to use someone else’s playbook?  Neither of us thought so...but I don’t love Koetter’s playbook so I’m glad they are trying.

My preference was Bevell or Rich Scangerello but hopefully I am wrong

Either one of those guys would've worked. Scangerello is right off that tree, and Bevell is a career WCO guy who runs the ball -- which is what DQ said he wanted.  I remember that verbatim from the end of season presser.  He said he wanted a O.C. who runs the ball... a lot.  And he emphasized "a lot."

Kutty ain't really pounded the rock like that since he was under Del Rio on Jacksonville with MJD and Fred Taylor.  Seemed like a strange hire to me based off that, but hey *fingers crossed*.

Saw a bit of an interview with Mularkey a few months ago and he talked about getting back to some more gap schemes up front but didn't wanna tip his hand too much, so maybe he'll have a little more free reign.  Kutty did a good job his first time around marrying his scheme to Mularkey's so...

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The reason I'm not overly concerned about Koetter and Mularkey adapting to the offense is, Koetter already showed with taking over Mularkey's scheme that he can do it, and Mularkey is here to draw up running schemes. 

Beyond that, it's going to be different because they are different coaches. Throw in Knapp as well. Look at what Andy is running in KC. That's a West Coast offense and it looks vastly different than anything we run here. But Koetter goes back 30+ years with Reid. So I won't be surprised if we adapt some of that to the current scheme as well. Koetter has shown for years he can draw up some of the best passing attacks in the league. Consistently. Matt showed he can operate in that as well.

And I think the biggest benefit is that he's not much of a HC hire threat. That's a big value, given the set back we had losing Kyle. Losing another OC would be a big issue, especially with DQ taking over the defense. 

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