FalconsIn2020

The Koetter Identity

100 posts in this topic

Yes, I know this sounds like the Bourne Identity.

 

So I created s thread a few days ago about Koetter and how he should be more effective in the Falcons/Shanny playbook than Sark.  And I still believe that.

However, someone asked for some Tampa plays and I went back and watched.  It was discouraging.  Especially on the redzone.  First and foremost, he used 11 personnel on nearly every single snap.  No creativity.  They also do next to nothing in terms of motion or groupings to win presnap.  They simply don’t motion or window dress their plays.  Like Sark, he appears to win on talent over scheme.  The 2012 Seahawks playoff game and this video below are not impressive.  

Primary Concern: he moves the ball but can’t find the end zone.  Last year he called one game for the Bucs.  The output: 3 points.  In fact, in games where Koetter called the plays since 2015, they average 20.5 ppg 

As JD and Vel mentioned, hopefully people like Morris, Knapp, Mularkey & MATT RYAN have s big say in how the offense looks.  It needs pre snap motion & Ryan under Center with hard play action.  Unfortunately, Koetter doesnt use much of either.  

A paradigm shift in his philosophy is needed if we are going to hoist a Lombardi next year

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Stray Dog THA GAWD said:

I think having Dirk back will hinder Ryan more than it helps.  Time will tell.

If Ryan has matured like I think he has, the plays he likes will be called more often than not.

one concern: Ryan is lethal under Center on PA.  But his preference is shotgun. Shanny forced him under center 

me4falcons likes this

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They motion you just aren't going to see it in this highlight video. It's not going to show motions it's just gonna cut to right before the snap.

Also you can't say they run 11 personnel on nearly every snap when you are watching highlights. They're not gonna show every snap.

PokerSteve, Tim Mazetti, vel and 1 other like this

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Just now, Yo_Lover said:

Also the redzone struggles weren't playcalls. The struggle was 2 Int's and 2 fumbles.

 

22 hours ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Since you asked, I went and watched our 2012 playoff games under Koetter.  Honestly, I am once again left underwhelmed with his offense. There is little disguise, no pre snap motion outside of Tony G. (Douglass a few times) and relies on winning with better players.  

I just don’t like his playbook.  But his has been around forever.  I believe he can call Shanny’s playbook.  But I’ll be honest, these games left me disappointed.  Take a look

 

 

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1 minute ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

 

 

And did you count how many motions we had in that game vs a game with Shanny? How many more does Shanny do per game?

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Just now, Yo_Lover said:

And did you count how many motions we had in that game vs a game with Shanny? How many more does Shanny do per game?

You have a good eye.  Take 40 min and watch the game and give me your thoughts

MSalmon likes this

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15 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

If Ryan has matured like I think he has, the plays he likes will be called more often than not.

one concern: Ryan is lethal under Center on PA.  But his preference is shotgun. Shanny forced him under center 

Shotgun when he wants it would be fun to see, but we'll see if they give him the power.

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Just now, FalconsIn2020 said:

You have a good eye.  Take 40 min and watch the game and give me your thoughts

I really don't see the point tbh. No one is like Kyle. No matter who we hire they'll never do what he did. If that's your measuring stick then everyone will suck. It would be like drafting a WR and expecting Julio, or a CB and wanting Deion. Just not gonna happen.

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On 7/13/2019 at 4:00 PM, slick0ne said:

How you figure pimping? Ryan had the most freedom under Kotter. He was deadly with the no huddle.

They're banking on familiarity, but it will take longer for them to get back to where they were when Dirk left.

Jerz #Quinning likes this

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7 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

I really don't see the point tbh. No one is like Kyle. No matter who we hire they'll never do what he did. If that's your measuring stick then everyone will suck. It would be like drafting a WR and expecting Julio, or a CB and wanting Deion. Just not gonna happen.

You are correct.  That’s why I used  KS plays, not Koetter.  But someone asked for DK plays.  It wasn’t all that pretty.  4 years, 21 ppg

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Just now, FalconsIn2020 said:

You are correct.  That’s why I used  KS plays, not Koetter.  But someone asked for DK plays.  It wasn’t all that pretty.  4 years, 21 ppg

With a terrible QB, no RB, and turnstile Oline.

Kyle averaged 18 with the Browns and 20.95 with the Redskins in 4 years. That number is boosted by RG3's rookie year. Without him it goes to 18.9.

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12 minutes ago, Stray Dog THA GAWD said:

They're banking on familiarity, but it will take longer for them to get back to where rhey were when Dirk left.

I hear ya. I still think they are going to hit the ground running

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15 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

With a terrible QB, no RB, and turnstile Oline.

Kyle averaged 18 with the Browns and 20.95 with the Redskins in 4 years. That number is boosted by RG3's rookie year. Without him it goes to 18.9.

This is his career in the redzone.  Almost always in 11 personnel

Red zone touchdowns per game: 2.1 (rank 6th

Red zone touchdowns per game: 1.6 (ranked 20th)

Red zone touchdowns per game: 1.5 (rank 19th)

Red zone touchdowns per game: 1.8 (rank 13th

Red zone touchdowns per game: 1.1 (rank 27th)

Red zone touchdowns per game: 2.2 (rank 4th

Red zone touchdowns per game: 1.7 (rank 17th)

Red zone touchdowns per game: 1.7 (rank 16th)

Red zone touchdowns per game: 1.7 (rank 15th)

Red zone touchdowns per game: 1.8 (rank 16th)

Red zone touchdowns per game: 1.6 (rank 13th)

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I’m confused. OP, you’ve mostly preached about the team being a legit super bowl contender this upcoming season. But this is 2nd Koetter thread this week that you are expressing concern over. Do you believe the offense is going to regress?

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8 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

I’m confused. OP, you’ve mostly preached about the team being a legit super bowl contender this upcoming season. But this is 2nd Koetter thread this week that you are expressing concern over. Do you believe the offense is going to regress?

They are.  From a roster perspective, no doubt. I was just a tad disappointed in what I saw when a poster asked for examples of Koetter’s use of motion pre snap and disguise. 

Its shocking how often he is in 11 personnel.  

I do think other influential people in his ear is a good thing

 

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6 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

They are.  From a roster perspective, no doubt. I was just a tad disappointed in what I saw when a poster asked for examples of Koetter’s use of motion pre snap and disguise. 

Its shocking how often he is in 11 personnel.  

I do think other influential people in his ear is a good thing

 

Anything to show he does it more than normal?

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20 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

This is his career in the redzone.  Almost always in 11 personnel

Red zone touchdowns per game: 2.1 (rank 6th

Red zone touchdowns per game: 1.6 (ranked 20th)

Red zone touchdowns per game: 1.5 (rank 19th)

Red zone touchdowns per game: 1.8 (rank 13th

Red zone touchdowns per game: 1.1 (rank 27th)

Red zone touchdowns per game: 2.2 (rank 4th

Red zone touchdowns per game: 1.7 (rank 17th)

Red zone touchdowns per game: 1.7 (rank 16th)

Red zone touchdowns per game: 1.7 (rank 15th)

Red zone touchdowns per game: 1.8 (rank 16th)

Red zone touchdowns per game: 1.6 (rank 13th)

You're ignoring the players in these situations

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Thanks for doing this after my request. Hopefully the molding of offensive minds and our loaded roster can cure some of those issues. 

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1 hour ago, Yo_Lover said:

I really don't see the point tbh. No one is like Kyle. No matter who we hire they'll never do what he did. If that's your measuring stick then everyone will suck. It would be like drafting a WR and expecting Julio, or a CB and wanting Deion. Just not gonna happen.

We should be able to average 29-30 points a game.

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37 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

They are.  From a roster perspective, no doubt. I was just a tad disappointed in what I saw when a poster asked for examples of Koetter’s use of motion pre snap and disguise. 

Its shocking how often he is in 11 personnel.  

I do think other influential people in his ear is a good thing

 

If the offensive line plays well the offense should run itself.

FalconsIn2020 likes this

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1 hour ago, Yo_Lover said:

Anything to show he does it more than normal?

From the TB analysts, they say it’s just what he runs on passing downs.

“One thing that stood out to me after reviewing the coaches film is that the Bucs’ passing offense used 11 personnel almost exclusively (11 personnel is code for one running back, one tight end and three receivers; it’s the most common personnel grouping in the NFL)”

 

And while I’m not sure this is on DK, TB’s inability to develop lineman is similar to Seattle with Cable:

“The list of linemen who have gotten to Tampa and flopped is a long one: Anthony Collins, Evan Smith, J.R. Sweezy, Ryan Jensen, Kadeem Edwards, Kevin Pamphile, Donovan Smith, Caleb Benenoch. General manager Jason Licht reminds me of the guy who spends half an hour sorting through the Walmart DVD bin, plucks Patch AdamsFever Pitch and Bad Santa 2 and thinks he has scored a fantastic deal.”

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