FalconsIn2020

Disguise & Sequencing - The Koetter Effect

49 posts in this topic

9 hours ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Here is one final example of genius use of scissor concept to flood a zone.  One of my favorite plays from 2016.  

 

The TE lines up wide. With a CB lined up across from the TE, this hints at zone coverage. When the TE motions in tight (orange), and no one follows him, that helps confirm zone coverage.
vs Cover3
Red is the #1 WR (outer most). The sideline deep 1/3 defender has his eyes on him.
0_zps4f08znna.png

Orange takes the flat defender with him. Red will break to the Post and take the deep 1/3 defender with him. The switch is about to happen and the deep 1/3 defender needs to be alert. What the video above doesn't mention is what the purple Hook defender (Kam) is facing. Normally, and I've seen this many times watching SFvsSEA, the Hook defender will pattern match any route coming his way to help out with flood concepts. This is where the purple crossing route comes into play.
1_zps6pv0fxjq.png

Purple defender honors the crossing route and therefore doesn't match the yellow RB coming out of the backfield. The pic below is after the fact. The yellow RB already ran by purple.
2_zpsktjddzw6.png

Notice how the purple defender is influenced by the crossing route. 4 routes flooding one side of the field with each route designed to occupy a defender. Wide open in the red zone against a SEA defense doing what it does best (cover3)? That's great play design.

This is one of my favorite plays as well because it shows an OC who understands the rules of the defense and how to influence them how he needs to. It also shows the value of utilizing Julio to influence defenses. Kam sees #11 coming and all eyes are on him to make sure he doesn't make a play. An OC who understands his talent and the influence that creates is invaluable. All of these things got Coleman open, he didn't have to do anything. And if a rule was broken, somebody else would have been open.

Koetter knows these things. Sark was a "my guy is better than your guy" OC, which was true because Julio is better than every CB he faces. But Koetter will help his guys get open by doing some of the work for them. 

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Really intrigued by a Knapp, Koetter & Mularkey combo with a Ryan in his prime. 

Edited:  KK & M plus Morris, forgot him, thanks @vel

This offense could be amazing, like Ryan gets his second MVP amazing, like steamrolls through the playoffs amazing, like this-time-28-3-becomes-42-3 amazing.

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17 minutes ago, falconidae said:

Really intrigued by a Knapp, Koetter & Mularkey combo with a Ryan in his prime. 

This offense could be amazing, like Ryan gets his second MVP amazing, like steamrolls through the playoffs amazing, like this-time-28-3-becomes-42-3 amazing.

I think it has the potential to be electric. Don't forget Morris. That's a ton of coaching experience. They'll have plenty of ideas to draw from. I hope they use other offenses as inspiration (*cough* Andy Reid *cough*). Don't forget Koetter and Reid have a very long relationship. I'm hoping he's been watching some Chiefs tape to steal some concepts. But it's not like Koetter has ever had an issue dialing up legit passing attacks. Having Mularkey be his opposite in terms of the running game, I think it will help bring in the rushing attack that Mularkey was a master at developing in his time here. 

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12 minutes ago, vel said:

I think it has the potential to be electric. Don't forget Morris. That's a ton of coaching experience. They'll have plenty of ideas to draw from. I hope they use other offenses as inspiration (*cough* Andy Reid *cough*). Don't forget Koetter and Reid have a very long relationship. I'm hoping he's been watching some Chiefs tape to steal some concepts. But it's not like Koetter has ever had an issue dialing up legit passing attacks. Having Mularkey be his opposite in terms of the running game, I think it will help bring in the rushing attack that Mularkey was a master at developing in his time here. 

Morris always gets overlooked.  But he has overseen our top positional unit for years and has helped Sanu reach career highs while Ridley had an amazing rookie year.

He has been our pass game coordinator for years and has been amazing in the role. He has taken a smart approach to getting a second HC opportunity.  He is now fluent on both sides of the ball which will serve him well.  Would not be stunned if it is him, not Koetter, who gets a HC offer next year

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14 hours ago, droopy1592 said:

Can’t wait for this season to start 

Me too, bro. To paraphrase an old rock song, I got football pneumonia and the Dirty Bird flu!

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11 minutes ago, *TMo* said:

Good thread, it's what I logon her for. Thanx.

 

It’s the subtlety of Shanny’s offense that we have missed.  The WR concepts all have a purpose.  Here it’s a pick.  And Koetter will bring this back.

 

Beating man coverage can be as simple as running a pick play. The creativity comes in how to create the pick. This is from our week 6 matchup 

Red WR motions across the formation and the CB follows. This confirms man coverage.
vs Cover 1 blitz
0_zpsb3kl1vxw.png

Red WR stems to the outside and doesn't even appear to be running a route. His only intent to create a pick for the slant to come underneath. 
1_zpskn1xbit1.png

Orange seems to be clearing the middle of the field because there's no reason for two route runners to be this close to one another, coming to a stop. 
2_zpsqnbtbnkl.png

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1 hour ago, vel said:

This is one of my favorite plays as well because it shows an OC who understands the rules of the defense and how to influence them how he needs to. It also shows the value of utilizing Julio to influence defenses. Kam sees #11 coming and all eyes are on him to make sure he doesn't make a play. An OC who understands his talent and the influence that creates is invaluable. All of these things got Coleman open, he didn't have to do anything. And if a rule was broken, somebody else would have been open.

Koetter knows these things. Sark was a "my guy is better than your guy" OC, which was true because Julio is better than every CB he faces. But Koetter will help his guys get open by doing some of the work for them. 

It also clearly shows a staple of WCO - the Triangle Stretch.


Red defender is horizontally stretched. If he goes to his right (towards the sideline) then there's a window to throw the Post route (red route). If he goes to his left, which he does, it opens a window to the Corner route.
Orange defender is vertically stretched. If he gains depth he can cover the Corner route. If he comes forward to cover the flat route, which he does, it opens up the Corner.
tri_zpsqp1t1e1i.png

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On 7/11/2019 at 0:00 PM, FalconsIn2020 said:

There are two things Koetter should provide to make our offense hum again:

1st - Play Sequencing: Pretty simple, yet it’s something we have lacked. Shannahan was the master.  Using plays in the first half to set up plays later in the game.   It’s why Shanny doesn’t allow for many QB audibles.  Play sequencing was essential to his overall gameplan.

2nd - Disguise:  If Koetter can disguise and set up our plays with clever motion pre-snap or unique formations, we will be golden.  It is something Sark struggled with. Here are two great examples of what we should all hope to see in 2019:

Shanny was a master of overloading zones to confuse the linebackers and in the process creating legal/natural picks which ultimately led to a wide open touchdown.

Here the route out of the backfield and the vertical concept result in a walk in TD.

SF-great-route-design-for-Goodwin-wide-o

 

 

On this the FB (Luke Stocker would be perfect) motions to a TE position, thus confusing the defense and leading to a wide open score.  Notice how the FB and the RB out of the backfield converge on the same defender, forcing the LB to make a choice.  It’s a brilliant design

SF-PA-boot-35-yd-FB-rec-TD-agaisnt-the-g

Shanny didnt audible at times because of personnel. It’s not that Matt didn’t or couldn’t audible because he did. More than ppl thought. But certain plays in certain formations with certain personnel made an audible difficult so you had to stick with the play. All OC’s will show plays to set up another play in the same look. It’s the FEEL of the game that you have to have. Anybody can call plays but it has to go with the feel of the game. Anybody can be a dj and play hit records but you have to have a feel for the crowd to know WHEN to play certain records. That’s the same with coordinators. 

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Any breakdowns available for Koetter? This definitely makes me miss Shanny minus that one game. 

 

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3 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Shanny didnt audible at times because of personnel. It’s not that Matt didn’t or couldn’t audible because he did. More than ppl thought. But certain plays in certain formations with certain personnel made an audible difficult so you had to stick with the play. 

That’s a fact.  It was Matt’s frustration in the SB.  The personnel groupings simply made it impossible to audible to a run play or more advantageous play.

Ryan almost always had 2 plays he could check to at the LOS

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3 minutes ago, NWFALCON said:

Any breakdowns available for Koetter? This definitely makes me miss Shanny minus that one game. 

 

It’s pointless because we are using Shanny’s playbook.  As such, I’m showing things Koetter should be able to do within that playbook.  

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Posted (edited)

54 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

It’s pointless because we are using Shanny’s playbook.  As such, I’m showing things Koetter should be able to do within that playbook.  

It’s not pointless. Yes, he will use the playbook but he doesn’t have the intimate knowledge to replicate the same in depth setups for the season. Koetter will bring his own flavor but I think expecting we will see a ton of what Shanny did, is asking for disappointment. 

Edited by NWFALCON

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Hopefully we see no more of this. A wasted play with no disguise or creativity.  Just hoped a player makes a play.  Look how cluttered this is.  No spacing.  Ugly

35ia8e.jpg

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5 hours ago, NWFALCON said:

Any breakdowns available for Koetter? This definitely makes me miss Shanny minus that one game. 

 

Since you asked, I went and watched our 2012 playoff games under Koetter.  Honestly, I am once again left underwhelmed with his offense. There is little disguise, no pre snap motion outside of Tony G. (Douglass a few times) and relies on winning with better players.  

I just don’t like his playbook.  But his has been around forever.  I believe he can call Shanny’s playbook.  But I’ll be honest, these games left me disappointed.  Take a look

 

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13 hours ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Since you asked, I went and watched our 2012 playoff games under Koetter.  Honestly, I am once again left underwhelmed with his offense. There is little disguise, no pre snap motion outside of Tony G. (Douglass a few times) and relies on winning with better players.  

I just don’t like his playbook.  But his has been around forever.  I believe he can call Shanny’s playbook.  But I’ll be honest, these games left me disappointed.  Take a look

 

To be fair, Koetter inherited a pretty terrible running game. Turner was definitely not the same player in 2012

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4 hours ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

To be fair, Koetter inherited a pretty terrible running game. Turner was definitely not the same player in 2012

Honestly, the run game was solid that game.  I am talking pass game.  There is so little window dressing pre snap.  That’s a huge part of what makes the Shannahan playbook so effective.  

I am hoping the implement, though.  Just watch those first two plays in the OP.  They are won before the snap.  These 2012 games have none of that

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2 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Honestly, the run game was solid that game.  I am talking pass game.  There is so little window dressing pre snap.  That’s a huge part of what makes the Shannahan playbook so effective.  

I am hoping the implement, though.  Just watch those first two plays in the OP.  They are won before the snap.  These 2012 games have none of that

Well, I think Ryan isn’t the same player today vs what he was during Koetter’s time here either. I’m sure the offense is much better off under Koetter than Sark. 

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2 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

Well, I think Ryan isn’t the same player today vs what he was during Koetter’s time here either. I’m sure the offense is much better off under Koetter than Sark. 

Very, very valid point.  I think Ryan holds his coaches accountable now.   Sark kept his distance by the end of last year.

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3 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Very, very valid point.  I think Ryan holds his coaches accountable now.   Sark kept his distance by the end of last year.

Yep. Ryan was different in 2016. And he’s been that guy ever since. Even Peter King wrote about it. He noticed how Ryan had clearly grown as a leader in holding his teammates and coaches accountable. I absolutely think he has a say in how the offense should be run. The reality is, the coaches have zero leverage. Ryan is the 30 million dollar man. He’s Blank’s #1 guy

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Genius use of natural route design by Hooper to pick for Coleman for huge gain.  The vertical concepts strong side vacate the entire side of the field

coleman.gif

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This play is won before the snap

49ers-motion.gif?w=1000&h=607

 

Because the LB follows the TE pre snap, Mullen’s knows it is man coverage making this simple pitch and catch to  the back out of the backfield

WillingImpeccableBarracuda-size_restrict

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Another play that’s won before the snap.  This is scheme winning rather than just relying on talent.

Here the Raiders corner follows the motioning receiver all the way across.  Indicates man. With Oakland showing blitz, Mullens knows the middle of the field will be open for this slant route that picks up a huge chunk of yards.

JaggedFrighteningFruitfly-size_restricte

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So often the past two years you probably noticed clutter in the receiver route tree.  Often two receivers end up next to each other at the end of the route.  Notice the spacing here.  Koetter is also greeting at spacing and layering the receiver routes to create proper throwing lanes.

Here Shanny uses a running back out wide (zone tell since corner is on him) and TE motion to make things easy on Mullens 

 

SillyOccasionalLadybug-size_restricted.g

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