Disguise & Sequencing - The Koetter Effect

[FalconsIn2012 26,969]

There are two things Koetter should provide to make our offense hum again:

1st - Play Sequencing: Pretty simple, yet it’s something we have lacked. Shannahan was the master.  Using plays in the first half to set up plays later in the game.   It’s why Shanny doesn’t allow for many QB audibles.  Play sequencing was essential to his overall gameplan.

2nd - Disguise:  If Koetter can disguise and set up our plays with clever motion pre-snap or unique formations, we will be golden.  It is something Sark struggled with. Here are two great examples of what we should all hope to see in 2019:

Shanny was a master of overloading zones to confuse the linebackers and in the process creating legal/natural picks which ultimately led to a wide open touchdown.

Here the route out of the backfield and the vertical concept result in a walk in TD.

 

 

On this the FB (Luke Stocker would be perfect) motions to a TE position, thus confusing the defense and leading to a wide open score.  Notice how the FB and the RB out of the backfield converge on the same defender, forcing the LB to make a choice.  It’s a brilliant design

[vel 30,657]

My biggest issue with Sark is that he didn't create for his players. He was very used to college, where it's just a matter of having the better players. The offense was talented, but it was a lot harder than it needed to be. I think Koetter will bring a good bit more creativity and I think his time in Tampa makes him appreciate having a truly elite QB again. 

[FalconsIn2012 26,969]

12 minutes ago, vel said:

My biggest issue with Sark is that he didn't create for his players. He was very used to college, where it's just a matter of having the better players. The offense was talented, but it was a lot harder than it needed to be. I think Koetter will bring a good bit more creativity and I think his time in Tampa makes him appreciate having a truly elite QB again. 

I agree...that second play above where the FB and RB out of the backfield converge on the LB is genius.  The LB has to pick one, leaving the other wide open

[FalconsIn2012 26,969]

29 minutes ago, vel said:

My biggest issue with Sark is that he didn't create for his players. He was very used to college, where it's just a matter of having the better players. The offense was talented, but it was a lot harder than it needed to be. I think Koetter will bring a good bit more creativity and I think his time in Tampa makes him appreciate having a truly elite QB again. 

What you talkin about willis.  I am elite

 

[papachaz 16,404]

I can't tell, is that the Bucs offense since we're talking about Dirk, or the niners since you're still hanging on scamahams jock?

 

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

on a not quite so SA train of thought, didn't the bucs score a TON of points the first few weeks of the season, um, last year or year before that? I'm really anxious to see what this O with Matt, our trips WR group and a healthy Freeman can do behind what appears to be a much improved OLine

 

[FalconsIn2012 26,969]

4 minutes ago, papachaz said:

I can't tell, is that the Bucs offense since we're talking about Dirk, or the niners since you're still hanging on scamahams jock?

 

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

on a not quite so SA train of thought, didn't the bucs score a TON of points the first few weeks of the season, um, last year or year before that? I'm really anxious to see what this O with Matt, our trips WR group and a healthy Freeman can do behind what appears to be a much improved OLine

 

It’s a mix.  Since we are forcing Dirk to use Shannahan’s offensive playbook, I can only go by what those plays look like.

I don’t think Sark knew how to fully utilize the playbook.  Dirk can IMO

[droopy1592 7,152]

2 hours ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

There are two things Koetter should provide to make our offense hum again:

1st - Play Sequencing: Pretty simple, yet it’s something we have lacked. Shannahan was the master.  Using plays in the first half to set up plays later in the game.   It’s why Shanny doesn’t allow for many QB audibles.  Play sequencing was essential to his overall gameplan.

2nd - Disguise:  If Koetter can disguise and set up our plays with clever motion pre-snap or unique formations, we will be golden.  It is something Sark struggled with. Here are two great examples of what we should all hope to see in 2019:

Shanny was a master of overloading zones to confuse the linebackers and in the process creating legal/natural picks which ultimately led to a wide open touchdown.

 

If you go back and watch 2016 in order, Shanny was setting up play sequencing and disguising for the whole season. Defenses would see plays develop they saw from earlier in the season film and still get it wrong because they were set up intentionally.  I don’t think people really appreciated his work in 2016. It really was impressive. I won’t say he’s a god, but he was definitely brilliant in predicting defensive responses and tendencies and took total advantage of them. His 9 play, 99 yard drive vs Seattle is just something that shouldn’t have looked and happened so easily. 

[FalconsIn2012 26,969]

1 minute ago, droopy1592 said:

If you go back and watch 2016 in order, Shanny was setting up play sequencing and disguising for the whole season. Defenses would see plays develop they saw from earlier in the season film and still get it wrong because they were set up intentionally.  I don’t think people really appreciated his work in 2016. It really was impressive. I won’t say he’s a god, but he was definitely brilliant in predicting defensive responses and tendencies and took total advantage of them. His 9 play, 99 yard drive vs Seattle is just something that shouldn’t have looked and happened so easily. 

Yup.  The Hooper TD in SB 51 is a perfect example.  

[vel 30,657]

13 minutes ago, droopy1592 said:

If you go back and watch 2016 in order, Shanny was setting up play sequencing and disguising for the whole season. Defenses would see plays develop they saw from earlier in the season film and still get it wrong because they were set up intentionally.  I don’t think people really appreciated his work in 2016. It really was impressive. I won’t say he’s a god, but he was definitely brilliant in predicting defensive responses and tendencies and took total advantage of them. His 9 play, 99 yard drive vs Seattle is just something that shouldn’t have looked and happened so easily. 

Yep. That's why after 2015, I (and a few others) kept telling people to be patient. You could see it in 2015, but players didn't trust it and weren't used to it yet. He's always setting things up and working to get guys open instead of just relying on guys doing it themselves. I remember when he only had Gabriel and Hawkins in Cleveland and was lighting teams up (relatively speaking of course) with them. 

[FalconsIn2012 26,969]

11 minutes ago, vel said:

Yep. That's why after 2015, I (and a few others) kept telling people to be patient. You could see it in 2015, but players didn't trust it and weren't used to it yet. He's always setting things up and working to get guys open instead of just relying on guys doing it themselves. I remember when he only had Gabriel and Hawkins in Cleveland and was lighting teams up (relatively speaking of course) with them. 

2016 actually started Week 15 of 2015.  You could see it starting to come together.  Just needed a Center and Sanu/Gabriel set it off

[GrimeyKidd 939]

Any Bucs gifs you can use for reference?

[FalconsIn2012 26,969]

7 minutes ago, GrimeyKidd said:

Any Bucs gifs you can use for reference?

They didn’t use Shannahan’s playbook.  I used Shanny plays because I think Koetter can set up and disguise within our playbook like KS did

[FalconsIn2012 26,969]

2 hours ago, GrimeyKidd said:

Any Bucs gifs you can use for reference?

Here are two things I could find from his time in Atlanta using sequence and formation.

Here, the formation is unique and in the backfield.  It forces the linebacker to the LOS and sets up Julio for a big gain on the skinny post

 

This one is set up earlier in the game.  It screams  toss crack with Turner.  We ran it early out of this formation.  But this time it’s a screen to Julio on the left side out of the picture.  Beautiful design 

[droopy1592 7,152]

Can’t wait for this season to start 

[FalconsIn2012 26,969]

11 minutes ago, droopy1592 said:

Can’t wait for this season to start 

Soon...very soon

[81KJW 122]

9 hours ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

There are two things Koetter should provide to make our offense hum again:

1st - Play Sequencing: Pretty simple, yet it’s something we have lacked. Shannahan was the master.  Using plays in the first half to set up plays later in the game.   It’s why Shanny doesn’t allow for many QB audibles.  Play sequencing was essential to his overall gameplan.

2nd - Disguise:  If Koetter can disguise and set up our plays with clever motion pre-snap or unique formations, we will be golden.  It is something Sark struggled with. Here are two great examples of what we should all hope to see in 2019:

Shanny was a master of overloading zones to confuse the linebackers and in the process creating legal/natural picks which ultimately led to a wide open touchdown.

Here the route out of the backfield and the vertical concept result in a walk in TD.

 

 

On this the FB (Luke Stocker would be perfect) motions to a TE position, thus confusing the defense and leading to a wide open score.  Notice how the FB and the RB out of the backfield converge on the same defender, forcing the LB to make a choice.  It’s a brilliant design

2

Koetter is the gameday head coach. Greg Knapp be OC 

[FalconsIn2012 26,969]

Just now, 81KJW said:

Koetter is the gameday head coach. Greg Knapp be OC 

I doubt it.  Knapp is a great QB Coach. That’s his lane.

In your scenario, Mularkey would assume the role.  But I don’t see that happening.

[papachaz 16,404]

6 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

I doubt it.  Knapp is a great QB Coach. That’s his lane.

In your scenario, Mularkey would assume the role.  But I don’t see that happening.

beat me to it, exactly what I was thinking as well

 

[FalconsIn2012 26,969]

From our Seattle playoff game, the snag route and Julio motion pre snap set up the slant.  It’s this creativity we missed.

ATL lines up with 3WRs to the right. SEA is in nickel personnel. When the #2 WR (Julio) motions over, Sherman follows across the formation. This confirms man coverage

ATL: mirrored Slant-Flat concepts with a Snag over the middle (orange). 3 step timing.
vs Cover1 Robber. Orange defender is the robber. Blue lines show man coverage assignments.


The Snag route occupies two defenders which allows for the slant-flat combinations to be isolated. With the the robber being occupied, and the LB following the RB to the flat (blue), this gives a window to the slant. 

[FalconsIn2012 26,969]

This is a great concept to beat man and zone.  It’s great cause it happens right in front of Ryan’s face.  The spacing is perfect.  So much of Sark seemed cluttered

 

ATL: red + orange = Mesh concept; yellow + red = Shallow Cross; 5 step timing
SEA: Cover3


Mesh concept is a man buster and won't work against Cover3 (zone), but what the two crossing routes does do is draw the attention of the two Hook defenders (blue). By doing that, it opens a passing window for the Curl route (yellow) that sits down in the soft spot between the two Hook zones.


One thing to notice here is how one of the crossing routes stop in the middle of the field (red route). This is a postsnap adjustment that is made when a WR that is running a shallow crossing route identifies zone coverage. There's no use to continue running across the field because if he is targeted with a pass, he'd get crushed by a LB (or worse, Kam Chancellor) attacking downhill. By stopping his route, he gives the QB a target and protects himself.

[FalconsIn2012 26,969]

Here is one final example of genius use of scissor concept to flood a zone.  One of my favorite plays from 2016.  

 

The TE lines up wide. With a CB lined up across from the TE, this hints at zone coverage. When the TE motions in tight (orange), and no one follows him, that helps confirm zone coverage.
vs Cover3
Red is the #1 WR (outer most). The sideline deep 1/3 defender has his eyes on him.


Orange takes the flat defender with him. Red will break to the Post and take the deep 1/3 defender with him. The switch is about to happen and the deep 1/3 defender needs to be alert. What the video above doesn't mention is what the purple Hook defender (Kam) is facing. Normally, and I've seen this many times watching SFvsSEA, the Hook defender will pattern match any route coming his way to help out with flood concepts. This is where the purple crossing route comes into play.


Purple defender honors the crossing route and therefore doesn't match the yellow RB coming out of the backfield. The pic below is after the fact. The yellow RB already ran by purple.


Notice how the purple defender is influenced by the crossing route. 4 routes flooding one side of the field with each route designed to occupy a defender. Wide open in the red zone against a SEA defense doing what it does best (cover3)? That's great play design.

[ATLSlobberKnockers 7,531]

11 hours ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

2016 actually started Week 15 of 2015.  You could see it starting to come together.  Just needed a Center and Sanu/Gabriel set it off

Yeah we just needed literally wnyother center and we.could have made the playoffs. Ryan had to take an extra hald second just to secure the ball each snap in shotgun.  We needed a legit #2 receiver but Hank waw good enough to get us in the playoffs if we had Mack

thr way everyone felt about Person is how Ive felt.since.Chester retired. We have FINALLY addressed it properly. Although I did advocat for Fusco before the 2017 And 2018 seaeons. If we woukd  have gotten him in.2017, instead of letting Kyle steal him we could have beaten the Eagles. Oh well.

I really thought we would go th e cheap route again and target Xavier Sua-filo. So glad we arent going for those fat tightend OLmen anymore.

Edited July 12, 2019 by ATLSlobberKnockers

[FalconsIn2012 26,969]

3 minutes ago, The Legendary SB said:

Koetter has been good for the passing game in ATL and TB.  But I am concerned about the run game in his last 2 stints.  Does anybody have any good analysis on that?  I know TB had a pretty bad O-line but how much of it is scheme?

That’s why Mularkey was hired.  He will control the run game.

[vel 30,657]

9 hours ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Here is one final example of genius use of scissor concept to flood a zone.  One of my favorite plays from 2016.  

 

The TE lines up wide. With a CB lined up across from the TE, this hints at zone coverage. When the TE motions in tight (orange), and no one follows him, that helps confirm zone coverage.
vs Cover3
Red is the #1 WR (outer most). The sideline deep 1/3 defender has his eyes on him.


Orange takes the flat defender with him. Red will break to the Post and take the deep 1/3 defender with him. The switch is about to happen and the deep 1/3 defender needs to be alert. What the video above doesn't mention is what the purple Hook defender (Kam) is facing. Normally, and I've seen this many times watching SFvsSEA, the Hook defender will pattern match any route coming his way to help out with flood concepts. This is where the purple crossing route comes into play.


Purple defender honors the crossing route and therefore doesn't match the yellow RB coming out of the backfield. The pic below is after the fact. The yellow RB already ran by purple.


Notice how the purple defender is influenced by the crossing route. 4 routes flooding one side of the field with each route designed to occupy a defender. Wide open in the red zone against a SEA defense doing what it does best (cover3)? That's great play design.

This is one of my favorite plays as well because it shows an OC who understands the rules of the defense and how to influence them how he needs to. It also shows the value of utilizing Julio to influence defenses. Kam sees #11 coming and all eyes are on him to make sure he doesn't make a play. An OC who understands his talent and the influence that creates is invaluable. All of these things got Coleman open, he didn't have to do anything. And if a rule was broken, somebody else would have been open.

Koetter knows these things. Sark was a "my guy is better than your guy" OC, which was true because Julio is better than every CB he faces. But Koetter will help his guys get open by doing some of the work for them. 

[falconidae 21,169]

Really intrigued by a Knapp, Koetter & Mularkey combo with a Ryan in his prime. 

Edited:  KK & M plus Morris, forgot him, thanks @vel

This offense could be amazing, like Ryan gets his second MVP amazing, like steamrolls through the playoffs amazing, like this-time-28-3-becomes-42-3 amazing.