droopy1592

Matt Ryan is Elite. Period.

164 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, Geneaut said:

I think Matt's public perception will change over the next few seasons if he continues his current production. I think at that point folks will realize what a long and productive career he's had.

Remember, to most fans he's always 'second fiddle' to the Brady's, Brees', and A-Aron's of the NFL. They just have him slotted there in their minds. When those guys are gone and Matt's still doing it year after year and the career numbers start becoming apparent to everyone they'll soften that stance a little.

Matt is cursed for coming out in 2008 right in the middle of the elite periods of Brady, Brees, Manning(s), Ben and Rivers. Literally the greatest era of QBing ever. Had Matt come out in 2002 or in 2015 and still perform at these levels there is no question he would be considered amongst the elite of all time. Unfortunately his numbers look good, but not as high as guys who have 7-10 years on him. Look at any QB who came out between 2008-2013 and none of them are close to Matt, except Stafford, but he is also 0-3 in the playoffs. Funny how that never comes up. 

Rodgers is a close contemporary since they both became full time starters in 2008. Even with that Matt has more yards than him but Rodgers has more TDs. Give Matt a couple of seasons with a top five defense and he too would have a ring or two. 

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Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, Jesus said:

To a degree. But when people talk about Matt's yardage and skill as a QB they point out that it's because he has Julio. Meanwhile those same people will say AB is the better receiver, but never give him credit for Big Ben's numbers. 

I think it's all silly. Good receivers and good QB's make each other better. There is no question about it. It is very rare for a great QB and a great receiver to end up together. When they do, it's special.

I get your point, but to the 'casual' NFL fan you know Ben has a few rings and Matt doesn't. If you aren't a Falcon's fan who watched most of his games, and all you see is ESPN highlights or the hype producing talking heads then you've constantly been bombarded with far more Ben hype than you've gotten Matt hype. Toss in the fact Ben's played in a ton of post-season games ( 2X the number of playoff games Matt has played ) and his name recognition is just more. 

Edited by Geneaut

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20 minutes ago, Geneaut said:

I get your point, but to the 'casual' NFL fan you know Ben has a few rings and Matt doesn't. If you aren't a Falcon's fan who watched most of his games, and all you see is ESPN highlights or the hype producing talking heads then you've constantly been bombarded with far more Ben hype than you've gotten Matt hype. Toss in the fact Ben's played in a ton of post-season games ( 2X the number of playoff games Matt has played ) and his name recognition is just more. 

This no ring argument is for a casual fan from a team which never won a SB. Steeler fans don’t use the ring argument to give a Big Ben a free pass. 

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1 hour ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

This is one of the best threads we’ve had this offseason 

I’m surprised this is doing so well. Most of my posts just vanish after a few views. 

 

I have to argue with a fellow practitioner about Matt being elite every time I see him. He’s still a Vick nut hugger. He just ignores the facts or pretends they aren’t important. 

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On 7/9/2019 at 9:46 AM, droopy1592 said:

On mobile and wasn’t able to quote the artical properly,  but many of us already knew MR2 was elite  

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/atlanta-falcons-matt-ryan-elite-qb/

 

Atlanta Falcons‘ quarterback Matt Ryan is underrated. But the way in which he has been underrated is strange. It’s not that people think that he’s bad. But most would stop short of calling him elite. Doing a quick google search for “NFL quarterback rankings” reveals that this is more than just a common intuition. Ryan is consistently ranked somewhere between sixth and tenth overall; a good quarterback, but not a great one.

And I think that’s pretty unfair. Gregg Rosenthal of NFL.com, for example, lists the Atlanta Falcons’ starter as the NFL’s eighth-best quarterback last season, behind Jared Goff, who in my mind was and is clearly an inferior player. And I’m not trying to suggest that Goff is a bad quarterback. But ranking him above Ryan significantly undervalues what the latter quarterback has accomplished over the last several years.

Matt Ryan is rarely bad, and in recent years he has often been great

One thing that even Ryan’s critics agree upon is that he is incredibly consistent from season to season. He has never thrown more interceptions than touchdowns, and he hasn’t thrown fewer than 20 touchdowns since his rookie season. He has also had at least 4,000 passing yards in each of the last eight seasons. Even during his worst seasons, Ryan is still capable of putting up big numbers.

And when he and the Falcons are firing on all cylinders, their offense is virtually unstoppable. During his 2016 MVP season, Ryan was at the helm of the best offense in the NFL, ranked first in points per game and second in yards per game. And his personal statistics were excellent as well. He threw for 4,944 yards, 38 touchdowns, and just seven interceptions.

Even though the team underperformed, Ryan still played well last season

Matt Ryan’s incredible MVP season was just three years ago. And because Atlanta hasn’t matched that level of success as a team in the two years since, some people seem to have written Ryan’s statistics off as something of a fluke. But in reality, his overall production has changed very little. Last season, for example, did not go very well for the Atlanta Falcons.

But it’s difficult to blame Ryan for this failure because statistically, he had one of the best seasons of his career. His 4,924 yards and 35 touchdowns through the air were surpassed only by that aforementioned 2016 MVP season. Ryan also tied his career-low from that season with seven interceptions. The season prior was a bit of a down year for him personally, but that still makes two times in three years in which Ryan put up elite numbers.

Compared to other quarterbacks, Ryan was largely responsible for his own success

But statistical success doesn’t necessarily represent a player’s individual skill level. Maybe you think that Ryan’s statistics are the product of his offensive system, or are overly influenced by the fact that he gets to throw to Julio Jones, one of the best wide receivers in the NFL. In fact, the Atlanta Falcons have, arguably, the best wide receiver trio in the NFL with Jones, Calvin Ridley, and Mohamed Sanu.

And while those are certainly factors in his success, it once again unfairly diminishes the things that Ryan has accomplished during his Atlanta Falcons career to focus solely on them. It is important to examine how he played in a vacuum, ignoring those mitigating factors.

The Pro Football Network Offensive Share Metric (OSM) grades allow us to examine Ryan’s performance in this way. The system takes into account only factors that an individual player could control, such as air yards or completion probability. And if you look purely at his OSM grades, Matt Ryan was arguably the best player in the NFL over the last three seasons. I know that sounds hyperbolic, but it really isn’t.

Last season, Ryan had the fourth-best grade of any quarterback with 30.3. That is already an excellent grade, one that implies that, relative to other quarterbacks in the NFL, he was critical to the success of his offense last season. However, Ryan’s 2018 grade was actually lower than how he scored in prior seasons.

Matt Ryan’s 2016 and 2017 OSM grades were unbelievable

In 2017, a relatively poor year for Ryan statistically, he performed even better on this metric. “Even better” is a bit of an understatement though, since his 2017 grade was 50.48, a full 20 points higher than last season, and around 14 points higher than the highest grade received by any quarterback in 2018. And during his 2016 MVP season, he did even better, receiving the completely ludicrous grade of 58.38.

For some context, that is the highest grade received by any player from 2016-2018, regardless of position. That is particularly impressive because quarterback grades tend to be lower on average. More than any other player during that three-year period, Ryan was able to maximize every opportunity presented to him. While this does not necessarily indicate that he was the best player in the NFL at any given time, it does show somewhat definitively that Ryan’s statistics were largely of his own making.

It is time to stop underrating Matt Ryan

The goal of this article is not to say that Ryan is the best quarterback in the NFL. But I think he deserves to be in that conversation, and he almost never is. As I said at the beginning of this article, the way people view him is somewhat confusing.

They don’t think he is on the same level as other supposed “good-not-great” quarterbacks like Dak Prescott, but at the same time, they are unwilling to put him in the same category as players like Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady. Maybe if the Atlanta Falcons had held on to their 28-3 lead over the New England Patriots in Super Bowl LI Ryan would be classified as elite. Maybe not.

It almost seems as though he is in a tier of his own, somewhere in between “pretty good” and “elite.”  But when you take a closer look, it rapidly becomes apparent just how good he has been in recent years. And I think it’s high time that he gets the recognition he deserves.”

Sad! Imagine if Ryan had a descent line that don't get him rushed or sacked. Imagine Ryan with extra 2 seconds behind a line all through those years. What could have been?

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2 hours ago, Geneaut said:

I get your point, but to the 'casual' NFL fan you know Ben has a few rings and Matt doesn't. If you aren't a Falcon's fan who watched most of his games, and all you see is ESPN highlights or the hype producing talking heads then you've constantly been bombarded with far more Ben hype than you've gotten Matt hype. Toss in the fact Ben's played in a ton of post-season games ( 2X the number of playoff games Matt has played ) and his name recognition is just more. 

I think to the casual fan, Ben's legacy is dwindling.  It's been 10 years since their last sb win.  He has had teammates publicly call him out now for the past few seasons.  He has the rape thing.  He threatens retirement nearly every season it feels and he is a drama queen.  I don't think the allure to Big Ben is what it once was in this "what have you done for me lately" landscape we live in now.  Add to the fact that people that aren't casual can recall him crapping the bed in those superbowls and getting bailed out by his defense...

Big Ben arrow down

Matt arrow up

At least it feels that way to me.

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4 hours ago, LightningDawg58 said:

Yal do realize, apples to apples, Falcons players will never be held and viewed the same as others right? Stories franchises and rabid fan bases such as the Steelers will always prop their guys up and get support because it’s backed by a history of winning the big one. 

Nobody here believes Ben is a better QB than Matt. But Ben has the titles to serve as a down payment. That stuff matters more to people.

Its always better to win ugly than to lose pretty. Period. Matt can retire as the greatest Super Bowl stat QB ever, but if his SB record is 0- whatever he will only be regarded as the best loser to ever play. I’m sure he’d rather throw for 150yds and 2 int and still win than the other way around.

 

For folks who care about such things, I guess so. Personally, I think you are embellishing those perceptions, at least those of knowledgeable fans who have football I.Q.’s > 50.

Bottom line, I could care less what steeler fans or media think about Big Oaf Roethlisburger or Matt Ryan. 

Matt’s my QB. 

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I'll throw this out.

When I was growing up I remember Warren Moon playing. I knew he was 'good' but I wouldn't have said he was the best. I wasn't a Houston fan so I didn't catch many of his games unless he was playing the Falcons, or I was just watching the 4PM game on Sunday after the Falcons played and he happened to be on. So I'm guessing I may have seen 4 or 5 of his games during his career even though I considered myself a solid NFL fan then.

If you had asked me who was better than Moon during his playing career I would have said Montana, Marino, Elway. Depending on the season I may have said Bledsoe or even Majik or Jim Everett.

No rings. Only 10 playoff games ( same as Matty right now ). A couple of seasons under a wunderkin OC ( Gilbride ) where he had some insane numbers

However, when he retired and I looked back at his long and fairly prolific career I realized he was a **** good player. He just happened to overlap the careers of 3 of the GOATs.

I see some similarities here with Matt. Warren is in the HOF.

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2 minutes ago, Geneaut said:

I'll throw this out.

When I was growing up I remember Warren Moon playing. I knew he was 'good' but I wouldn't have said he was the best. I wasn't a Houston fan so I didn't catch many of his games unless he was playing the Falcons, or I was just watching the 4PM game on Sunday after the Falcons played and he happened to be on. So I'm guessing I may have seen 4 or 5 of his games during his career even though I considered myself a solid NFL fan then.

If you had asked me who was better than Moon during his playing career I would have said Montana, Marino, Elway. Depending on the season I may have said Bledsoe or even Majik or Jim Everett.

No rings. Only 10 playoff games ( same as Matty right now ). A couple of seasons under a wunderkin OC ( Gilbride ) where he had some insane numbers

However, when he retired and I looked back at his long and fairly prolific career I realized he was a **** good player. He just happened to overlap the careers of 3 of the GOATs.

I see some similarities here with Matt. Warren is in the HOF.

You aren't wrong.  And Matt belongs behind those QB's, but that is not a knock on Matt as it is recognition of just how good those others are.  And that's ok.

I hope he wins a ring obviously, but as we have seen there is a lot of luck and a lot of team scenarios that have to play out to win one.  I think by the time he hangs them up, at his current trajectory, people will be forced to recognize how good he really was.

Funny you mentioned Moon, Matt (barring injury) will pass him up this year to get into the top 10.

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7 minutes ago, Geneaut said:

I'll throw this out.

When I was growing up I remember Warren Moon playing. I knew he was 'good' but I wouldn't have said he was the best. I wasn't a Houston fan so I didn't catch many of his games unless he was playing the Falcons, or I was just watching the 4PM game on Sunday after the Falcons played and he happened to be on. So I'm guessing I may have seen 4 or 5 of his games during his career even though I considered myself a solid NFL fan then.

If you had asked me who was better than Moon during his playing career I would have said Montana, Marino, Elway. Depending on the season I may have said Bledsoe or even Majik or Jim Everett.

No rings. Only 10 playoff games ( same as Matty right now ). A couple of seasons under a wunderkin OC ( Gilbride ) where he had some insane numbers

However, when he retired and I looked back at his long and fairly prolific career I realized he was a **** good player. He just happened to overlap the careers of 3 of the GOATs.

I see some similarities here with Matt. Warren is in the HOF.

An apt comparison for sure. Hard to break out of the shadow of other greats. I’m sure there are other sports comparisons of this phenomena out there.   And mind you Warren is in the HOF....so I like that part.   

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21 hours ago, TheFatboi said:

My bad. It was on Kam Chancellor. Not earl. He vacated his responsibility. But it was set up that way because they sent douglas in motion and kept TG in to block. Totally threw them off. But it wasn’t on Sherm. He just tried to run it out when he saw Kam abandon post. 

Looks almost like Cover 2 with the weak side corner bailing in the flats.  Where is Earl?  Still recovering from Quizz trucking him....lol 

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Elite gets thrown around way too loosely especially in football. By definition we are looking at the top two or three at each position. So if you feel Matty is a top two or three QB, then sure he is elite.

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12 hours ago, ya_boi_j said:

It was a good throw but I wasn't debating what the best throw of his career was. That's a debate that I wouldn't be able to have because there are too many good throws

I know. I was just saying.

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19 hours ago, falcons007 said:

Lmao. Big Ben was gifted those SB by the defense. Big Ben had worst QB rating in a SB in 2006. Troy Polamalu and James Harrison were big reason for those SB rings. The AFC Championship game against Ravens was Troy. Even in 2010, Troy got a fumble inside the 10, and Steelers punched in to beat Ravens like 7-3. The Steelers Ravebs games were fights and often single digit final scores when Big Ben got his rings.

This.

2005 Steelers defense: 3rd in points (16.1 ppg), 4th in yards (284 ypg)
2008 Steelers defense: 1st in points (13.9 ppg), 1st in yards (237.2 ypg)

Meanwhile...

2005 Steelers offense: 9th in points (24.3 ppg), 15th in yards (321.8 ypg)
2008 Steelers offense: 20th in points (21.7 ppg), 22nd in yards (311.9 ypg)

12 hours ago, Vandy said:

LOL.. He won a couple SB’s early In career mainly due to steeler defense. 

See also Eli Manning. 

9/21/123 yards 2 Ints in SB win over Seahawks. One of worst performances ever by a QB. 

Nailed it and someone else touched on the officiating which was a huge factor too.

The Seahawks won the turnover battle, time of possession, and outgained the Steelers yardage wise and the Steelers still needed that blatantly one-sided officiating to win. :lol:

10 hours ago, LightningDawg58 said:

He still won and still got them there. Can we not pretend that the masses will ignore details in lieu of  a narrative, people count titles. 

I’m not a Big Ben supporter by the way I’m just stating what I think is obvious about his popularity 

Somebody better tell the 2000 Ravens' defense (that was 1st in points and 2nd in yards) to thank Trent Dilfer for leading them to and winning Super Bowl XXXV for them. The masses will surely ignore the 5 turnovers the Ravens defense forced in favor of Dilfer's inconceivable 12 of 25 for 153 yards and 1 TD performance! How did he not win Super Bowl MVP?!

8 hours ago, Jesus said:

Rodgers is a close contemporary since they both became full time starters in 2008. Even with that Matt has more yards than him but Rodgers has more TDs. Give Matt a couple of seasons with a top five defense and he too would have a ring or two. 

Both Ryan and Rodgers have the same number of seasons with a top 5 defense.

Ryan: 2010 (5th in points) and 2012 (5th in points)

Rodgers: 2009 (2nd in yards) and 2010 (2nd in points and 5th in yards)

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34 minutes ago, Iron Saint said:

This.

2005 Steelers defense: 3rd in points (16.1 ppg), 4th in yards (284 ypg)
2008 Steelers defense: 1st in points (13.9 ppg), 1st in yards (237.2 ypg)

Meanwhile...

2005 Steelers offense: 9th in points (24.3 ppg), 15th in yards (321.8 ypg)
2008 Steelers offense: 20th in points (21.7 ppg), 22nd in yards (311.9 ypg)

Nailed it and someone else touched on the officiating which was a huge factor too.

The Seahawks won the turnover battle, time of possession, and outgained the Steelers yardage wise and the Steelers still needed that blatantly one-sided officiating to win. :lol:

Somebody better tell the 2000 Ravens' defense (that was 1st in points and 2nd in yards) to thank Trent Dilfer for leading them to and winning Super Bowl XXXV for them. The masses will surely ignore the 5 turnovers the Ravens defense forced in favor of Dilfer's inconceivable 12 of 25 for 153 yards and 1 TD performance! How did he not win Super Bowl MVP?!

Both Ryan and Rodgers have the same number of seasons with a top 5 defense.

Ryan: 2010 (5th in points) and 2012 (5th in points)

Rodgers: 2009 (2nd in yards) and 2010 (2nd in points and 5th in yards)

Yep luck also played a part at least in 2006. Jerome Bettis fumbled the ball but Defense stopped colts in Divisional round of playoffs.. And colts missed an easy 37 yard FG to lose the game. And the gadget play from Antwon Randell for 50+ yard TD pass sealed the SB for Steelers. 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Iron Saint said:

This.

2005 Steelers defense: 3rd in points (16.1 ppg), 4th in yards (284 ypg)
2008 Steelers defense: 1st in points (13.9 ppg), 1st in yards (237.2 ypg)

Meanwhile...

2005 Steelers offense: 9th in points (24.3 ppg), 15th in yards (321.8 ypg)
2008 Steelers offense: 20th in points (21.7 ppg), 22nd in yards (311.9 ypg)

Nailed it and someone else touched on the officiating which was a huge factor too.

The Seahawks won the turnover battle, time of possession, and outgained the Steelers yardage wise and the Steelers still needed that blatantly one-sided officiating to win. :lol:

Somebody better tell the 2000 Ravens' defense (that was 1st in points and 2nd in yards) to thank Trent Dilfer for leading them to and winning Super Bowl XXXV for them. The masses will surely ignore the 5 turnovers the Ravens defense forced in favor of Dilfer's inconceivable 12 of 25 for 153 yards and 1 TD performance! How did he not win Super Bowl MVP?!

Both Ryan and Rodgers have the same number of seasons with a top 5 defense.

Ryan: 2010 (5th in points) and 2012 (5th in points)

Rodgers: 2009 (2nd in yards) and 2010 (2nd in points and 5th in yards)

That 2012 defense wasn’t built to stop pistol offenses, and the team we beat in the Divisional Round showed the perfect script for the team we lost to in the NFCCG.  Unbelievable, really, to hit the two mutant offenses we couldn’t stop back-to-back when it meant something.

Edited by NOVAFalconFan
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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, NOVAFalconFan said:

That 2012 defense wasn’t built to stop pistol offenses, and the team we beat in the Divisional Round showed the perfect script for the team we lost to in the NFCCG.  Unbelievable, really, to hit the two mutant offenses we couldn’t stop back-to-back when it meant something.

Yeah, rotten luck certainly seems to find teams in the playoffs without discrimination.

Alternatively, if RGIII doesn't tear his knee to shreds in the Wild Card round against the Seahawks, there's a good chance y'all would've had to face the Redskins with another pistol offense in the Divisional instead of the Seahawks.

I mean, I know y'all beat the Redskins earlier in the year, but that slop of a surface at FedEx Field definitely was a detriment to the productivity of both offenses and would've been much more potent on the Georgia Dome turf, likely resulting in a better game; kinda similar to the 49ers-Seahawks games that year where the 49ers won on their sloppy field but when the Seahawks got on the turf at CenturyLink, they waxed the 49ers.

Edited by Iron Saint

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22 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

here’s and interesting factoid. Drew and Aaron both on that list living by the short pass. Big Ben I’m not shocked because he had Bell and Connor but with AB he still went long. 

Drew been dink and dunk for a minute, people just don't want to admit it.

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37 minutes ago, athell said:

Drew been dink and dunk for a minute, people just don't want to admit it.

I'm surprised Tom Brady isn't on that list. Not surprised that Matt Ryan isn't on that list. Downright ridiculous that folks think he's noodle air and only throws short passes.

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2 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said:

I'm surprised Tom Brady isn't on that list. Not surprised that Matt Ryan isn't on that list. Downright ridiculous that folks think he's noodle air and only throws short passes.

Ignorance is a heck of a thing

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2 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said:

I'm surprised Tom Brady isn't on that list. Not surprised that Matt Ryan isn't on that list. Downright ridiculous that folks think he's noodle air and only throws short passes.

Brady & Ryan are better than anyone on the list over that period of time.  

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46 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Brady & Ryan are better than anyone on the list over that period of time.  

That's just stunning to me about Brady because of the way that offense has been built these last few years.

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