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Julio has no plans to hold out..

226 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

Yea. That SB outcome really helped in proving my theory lol. And I’ve always felt that Brady was the guy on the better team, but not necessarily the better QB in almost all of his SB wins. And in his losses, he is definitely the better QB, but completely outmatched by the better team. The Eagles with Foles is another classic example 

We just agree to disagree on Brady.  I know you agree he is great.  But he does more with less than anyone who has ever played.  

He won 3 titles in his first 6 seasons with these guys as his leading receivers: Brown, Branch, Givens, Caldwell.

And Belichick is the GOAT.  But he was 5-11 in year 1 and 0-3 in year 2 until Brady took over.

Even when you consider they beat us without Gronk.  These are not great receivers at his disposal

 
REC YDS AVG TD LONG TGTS
J. White 14 110 7.9 1 28 16
J. Edelman 5 87 17.4 0 27 13
D. Amendola 8 78 9.8 1 20 11
M. Mitchell 6 70 11.7 0 18 7
M. Bennett 5 62 12.4 0 25 6
C. Hogan 4 57 14.3 0 18 7
D. Lewis 1 2 2.0 0 2 3
TEAM 43 466 10.8 2 28 63

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44 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

We just agree to disagree on Brady.  I know you agree he is great.  But he does more with less than anyone who has ever played.  

He won 3 titles in his first 6 seasons with these guys as his leading receivers: Brown, Branch, Givens, Caldwell.

And Belichick is the GOAT.  But he was 5-11 in year 1 and 0-3 in year 2 until Brady took over.

Even when you consider they beat us without Gronk.  These are not great receivers at his disposal

 
REC YDS AVG TD LONG TGTS
J. White 14 110 7.9 1 28 16
J. Edelman 5 87 17.4 0 27 13
D. Amendola 8 78 9.8 1 20 11
M. Mitchell 6 70 11.7 0 18 7
M. Bennett 5 62 12.4 0 25 6
C. Hogan 4 57 14.3 0 18 7
D. Lewis 1 2 2.0 0 2 3
TEAM 43 466 10.8 2 28 63

The pats were a running team back then. They had some real RB’s. Brady was a game manager and all he needed to do was not lose the game. It’s also the system. BB believes in the system over any player. Including Brady. They were 4-1 without Brady in 16 and went 10-5 without him. That speaks more to BB and his system/team more than just Brady. But he still deserves credit. Just not all of it. 

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4 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

The pats were a running team back then. They had some real RB’s. Brady was a game manager and all he needed to do was not lose the game. It’s also the system. BB believes in the system over any player. Including Brady. They were 4-1 without Brady in 16 and went 10-5 without him. That speaks more to BB and his system/team more than just Brady. But he still deserves credit. Just not all of it. 

This...Here’s how I look at it. I personally believe that Belichick could take over any of the 3 teams in the AFC east and instantly make them a AFC championship game contender. All of them. I think Peyton, in his prime, could join ANY team and instantly make them, at worst, a conference champion contender. I don’t believe I can say the same for Brady. 

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12 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

The pats were a running team back then. They had some real RB’s. Brady was a game manager and all he needed to do was not lose the game. It’s also the system. BB believes in the system over any player. Including Brady. They were 4-1 without Brady in 16 and went 10-5 without him. That speaks more to BB and his system/team more than just Brady. But he still deserves credit. Just not all of it. 

Brady was a game manager for one SB.  That’s it.  Look who he won with against the Panthers

35ibqf.jpg

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6 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

This...Here’s how I look at it. I personally believe that Belichick could take over any of the 3 teams in the AFC east and instantly make them a AFC championship game contender. All of them. I think Peyton, in his prime, could join ANY team and instantly make them, at worst, a conference champion contender. I don’t believe I can say the same for Brady. 

Yep. I don’t think Brady is the same guy with just any team. 

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3 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Brady was a game manager for one SB.  That’s it.  Look who he won with against the Panthers

35ibqf.jpg

They had 135 yards rushing in that game. 

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21 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

The pats were a running team back then. They had some real RB’s. Brady was a game manager and all he needed to do was not lose the game. It’s also the system. BB believes in the system over any player. Including Brady. They were 4-1 without Brady in 16 and went 10-5 without him. That speaks more to BB and his system/team more than just Brady. But he still deserves credit. Just not all of it. 

When people talk about 2008 Patriots to point to how it’s the system and not Brady, the stats say otherwise.  They scored 13 ppg less without Brady.  It was the defense allowing 300 points all season that won them 10 games.

The 2008 season actually showed Brady’s value.  They went from undefeated to out of the playoffs.

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7 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

They had 135 yards rushing in that game. 

Yes, but you said they were a run first team with great RB’s.  These are not great players surrounding Brady

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Just now, FalconsIn2020 said:

When people talk about 2008 Patriots to point to how it’s the system and not Brady, the stats say otherwise.  They scored 13 ppg less without Brady.  It was the defense allowing 300 points all season that won them 10 games.

The 2008 season actually showed Brady’s value.  They went from undefeated to out of the playoffs.

Brady was hurt in the 1st game of the season. They started 0-1. Cassell won 10 games. And the only reason they missed the playoffs is because that was a rare year 11-5 wasn’t good enough to get you in. Check that. Cassell won 11 games. All the games. They started the season 0-1. And of course the backup won’t score as much as the starter. He had the experience. Just like when Brady took over for Bledsoe. He didn’t score as much as Bledsoe. They were a SB team with Bledsoe that year. It’s BB more than Brady. 

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8 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Yes, but you said they were a run first team with great RB’s.  These are not great players surrounding Brady

I didn’t say they were run 1st. I said they were a running team. Stop changing my F*UCKING words man.  His 1st two running backs were really good players. Both were 1k runners before they got to the pats. 135 yards on the ground makes it easier for ANY qb. And weren’t they behind in that panthers game? Yea they had to throw. I hate when you throw up raw stats without showing the flow of the game. ANY time a qb has to throw 40+ times it says they were losing the game at some point and HAD to throw or it was a close game. Credit to Brady to handle that but don’t act like he was just tossing the ball. He HAD to. 

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2 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Brady was hurt in the 1st game of the season. They started 0-1. Cassell won 10 games. And the only reason they missed the playoffs is because that was a rare year 11-5 wasn’t good enough to get you in. Check that. Cassell won 11 games. All the games. They started the season 0-1. And of course the backup won’t score as much as the starter. He had the experience. Just like when Brady took over for Bledsoe. He didn’t score as much as Bledsoe. They were a SB team with Bledsoe that year. It’s BB more than Brady. 

Brady was hurt in the 1st quarter of game 1.

regardless, the drop in production from one year to the next was 2nd all time.  #1 was of course the Falcons 13 ppg drop between 2016 and 2017.

Yet people use that year say it’s the system, not Brady.  

Is there a 38% drop in scoring if Schaub starts over Ryan?  Between any #1 and #2?  I doubt it

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33 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

The pats were a running team back then. They had some real RB’s. Brady was a game manager and all he needed to do was not lose the game. It’s also the system. BB believes in the system over any player. Including Brady. They were 4-1 without Brady in 16 and went 10-5 without him. That speaks more to BB and his system/team more than just Brady. But he still deserves credit. Just not all of it. 

Yep. Early 2000s Pats were Falcons of 2008-2010 just with an elite Defense carrying them in addition. Wouldn’t exactly put Mike Smith on BB’s level at running a defense.

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6 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Yep. Early 2000s Pats were Falcons of 2008-2010 just with an elite Defense carrying them in addition. Wouldn’t exactly put Mike Smith on BB’s level at running a defense.

Even still, Belichick was 5-11 and 0-3 before the game manager took over.

Who you taking as top 3 All Time QB’s?

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2 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Yep. Early 2000s Pats were Falcons of 2008-2010 just with an elite Defense carrying them in addition. Wouldn’t exactly put Mike Smith on BB’s level at running a defense.

Exactly. 

 

3 minutes ago, Ergo Proxy said:

Yep. Early 2000s Pats were Falcons of 2008-2010 just with an elite Defense carrying them in addition. Wouldn’t exactly put Mike Smith on BB’s level at running a defense.

I know they were. They didn’t beat the rams because of Brady. They won because of running the ball and pick sixing Warner. Brady gets the credit because he got them in FG range as he should but let’s not forget the game in between. Same in the panthers game. They ran the ball and played defense. They were basically the Parcells lead New York giants all over again. Same style of play. Run the ball. Play defense. And it’s not like you can’t have a game where the qb has to throw 30-40 times even tho you’re a running team. Matt had games during the turner years where he threw 35+ times. 

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4 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Not with Bledsoe he wasn’t. 

Yes he was

Sorry. 0-2.  Brady took over game 3 and they scored 44 on Indy

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2 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Even still, Belichick was 5-11 and 0-3 before the game manager took over.

Who you taking as top 3 All Time QB’s?

They were 0-2 the year Brady took over. 

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48 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

The pats were a running team back then. They had some real RB’s. Brady was a game manager and all he needed to do was not lose the game. It’s also the system. BB believes in the system over any player. Including Brady. They were 4-1 without Brady in 16 and went 10-5 without him. That speaks more to BB and his system/team more than just Brady. But he still deserves credit. Just not all of it. 

"In all, Belichick has gone 13-6 (.684) in 19 games without Brady at quarterback for thePatriots. To put that in context, no other team?in the league besides Belichick's Patriots has posted a winning percentage higher than .684 since Belichick and Bradyjoined forces in 2000"

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1 minute ago, Yo_Lover said:

"In all, Belichick has gone 13-6 (.684) in 19 games without Brady at quarterback for thePatriots. To put that in context, no other team?in the league besides Belichick's Patriots has posted a winning percentage higher than .684 since Belichick and Bradyjoined forces in 2000"

You know they were going to the SB in 2016 when they started the season 3-1 without Brady. With 2 different backup qb’s. Jimmy G won 2 games and the 3rd string guy went 1-1. 

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Just now, TheFatboi said:

You know they were going to the SB in 2016 when they started the season 3-1 without Brady. With 2 different backup qb’s. Jimmy G won 2 games and the 3rd string guy went 1-1. 

That's why I said I think they could still win the Superbowl with Brisett. Use the money you save from Brady to get him one go to TE or WR. And then the rest on defense. They'd be fine. BB knows what he's doing.

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Just now, Yo_Lover said:

That's why I said I think they could still win the Superbowl with Brisett. Use the money you save from Brady to get him one go to TE or WR. And then the rest on defense. They'd be fine. BB knows what he's doing.

That’s why I say it’s about BB more than Brady. But don’t get me wrong Brady’s attitude goes a long way. He had a never quit and a killer mentality. And THAT is what separates him. He’s an assassin. That’s what I like about Brady. But they were gonna be a good team with any good qb. Imagine what they would be with Matt Ryan as a rookie til now? 

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4 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

"In all, Belichick has gone 13-6 (.684) in 19 games without Brady at quarterback for thePatriots. To put that in context, no other team?in the league besides Belichick's Patriots has posted a winning percentage higher than .684 since Belichick and Bradyjoined forces in 2000"

Jimmy G is a top 12 QB.  Brisett averaged 140 ypg.  Cassell scores 13 ppg less than Brady with same offense.   

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1 hour ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

Which is why I don’t think he’s the best ever. 

Brady’s first and most recent MVP seasons came a decade apart. Brady's first and most recent passing yards titles were 12 years apart. His first and most recent passing touchdowns titles were 13 years apart. More than any other numbers, a single line exemplifies what Brady's legacy will be: In 17 healthy seasons as a starter, he's made more Super Bowls (9) than he's missed (8).

 

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