apl2g

Julio has no plans to hold out..

226 posts in this topic

On 7/8/2019 at 5:40 PM, 4dabirds said:

I'm surprised the deal isn't already done.

This. Give the man his money already. Good grief.

apl2g likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, PokerSteve said:

This. Give the man his money already. Good grief.

A lot of moving pieces they're trying to solve in the future. Giving money out all willy nilly is how teams get in cap heIl. Julio, Grady, Debo, Hooper, Devondre, Vic. That's just a handful of players. Doesn't include Neal, Kazee, Takk. I think they will get Grady and Julio done together. I think they'll at worst have the framework of a deal for Grady and Debo in place and let the season play out to determine their values. I think the TE market put a heavy wrench in Hooper's value and Devondre's value is unique because he's good but didn't step up without Debo so who is he. 

A lot of moving pieces. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, vel said:

A lot of moving pieces they're trying to solve in the future. Giving money out all willy nilly is how teams get in cap heIl. Julio, Grady, Debo, Hooper, Devondre, Vic. That's just a handful of players. Doesn't include Neal, Kazee, Takk. I think they will get Grady and Julio done together. I think they'll at worst have the framework of a deal for Grady and Debo in place and let the season play out to determine their values. I think the TE market put a heavy wrench in Hooper's value and Devondre's value is unique because he's good but didn't step up without Debo so who is he. 

A lot of moving pieces. 

Couldn't agree more. Clearly the Cap isn't going to increase nearly enough to accommodate all our top players and the bill for Julio and Grady is due now. Something's gotta give and I guess we'll get to find out just how good TD is in keeping this roster together with so many other players ready for new deals.

vel and Vandy like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, vel said:

A lot of moving pieces they're trying to solve in the future. Giving money out all willy nilly is how teams get in cap heIl. Julio, Grady, Debo, Hooper, Devondre, Vic. That's just a handful of players. Doesn't include Neal, Kazee, Takk. I think they will get Grady and Julio done together. I think they'll at worst have the framework of a deal for Grady and Debo in place and let the season play out to determine their values. I think the TE market put a heavy wrench in Hooper's value and Devondre's value is unique because he's good but didn't step up without Debo so who is he. 

A lot of moving pieces. 

You are far more diplomatic when you state your opinion.  Well done and of course completely on point.

TD will earn his keep the next 12 months.  He will make a decision or two many of us won’t like, but such is the nature of the beast when you draft like pimps for 5 straight years.

Its why I hate giving up draft picks in the top 125 selections.  Look what we are doing with the picks we are making.  It’s a clinic

vel likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, PokerSteve said:

This. Give the man his money already. Good grief.

I would think the front office probably wants to get the deal done ASAP, but the ever-changing market for top wideouts probably has Julio's agent waiting it out. 

Iron Saint and PokerSteve like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, PokerSteve said:

Couldn't agree more. Clearly the Cap isn't going to increase nearly enough to accommodate all our top players and the bill for Julio and Grady is due now. Something's gotta give and I guess we'll get to find out just how good TD is in keeping this roster together with so many other players ready for new deals.

 

13 hours ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

You are far more diplomatic when you state your opinion.  Well done and of course completely on point.

TD will earn his keep the next 12 months.  He will make a decision or two many of us won’t like, but such is the nature of the beast when you draft like pimps for 5 straight years.

Its why I hate giving up draft picks in the top 125 selections.  Look what we are doing with the picks we are making.  It’s a clinic

Yep but I don't think we're in bad shape. Of those nine players I listed, we probably keep 6-7. I think Vic and Devondre are gone. Maybe Hooper, but that's a harder one given TEs are so hard to find/develop. I don't think Vic and Devondre are terribly hard to replace. 

I agree, giving up top 150 picks is tough, but I agreed with them going and getting McGary. If he pans out, your OL is set for the foreseeable future, along with the overall offense. At that point, you are primed to continue to pour resources into the defense, replacing whoever you end up losing. 

It will be interesting to watch. I think it will be tough, but guys like Gabriel and Coleman were let go and we haven't missed a beat in my opinion. As long as DQ is here, I think the defense is more a matter of time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, vel said:

 

Yep but I don't think we're in bad shape. Of those nine players I listed, we probably keep 6-7. I think Vic and Devondre are gone. Maybe Hooper, but that's a harder one given TEs are so hard to find/develop. I don't think Vic and Devondre are terribly hard to replace. 

I agree, giving up top 150 picks is tough, but I agreed with them going and getting McGary. If he pans out, your OL is set for the foreseeable future, along with the overall offense. At that point, you are primed to continue to pour resources into the defense, replacing whoever you end up losing. 

It will be interesting to watch. I think it will be tough, but guys like Gabriel and Coleman were let go and we haven't missed a beat in my opinion. As long as DQ is here, I think the defense is more a matter of time. 

Giving up top 100 picks is just a TD strategy.  Every draft he is willing to use a 2nd or 3rd as leverage.  Sure, the players we get are often good.  But it’s a numbers game in the draft.  I want as many bites in the top 100 as possible. 

 

Since the Julio trade we have taken 21 bites.  The Patriots have taken 32 bites inside the top 100.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Giving up top 100 picks is just a TD strategy.  Every draft he is willing to use a 2nd or 3rd as leverage.  Sure, the players we get are often good.  But it’s a numbers game in the draft.  I want as many bites in the top 100 as possible. 

 

Since the Julio trade we have taken 21 bites.  The Patriots have taken 32 bites inside the top 100.  

I don't think that's a fair way of looking at it. More bites doesn't matter if you aren't hitting. Of those 32 bites, let's go just to the 2016 SB since it's a Falcons-Patriots comp, the Patriots had:

Nate Solder, Donta Hightower, Malcom Brown, Joe Thuney

Those are the only top 100 picks they had on the 2016 team that played in the SB and had an impact, starting with the 2011 draft. That's four players. Compared to:

Julio Jones, Desmond Trufant, Robert Alford, Jake Matthews, Rashede Hageman, Vic Beasley, Jalen Collins, Tevin Coleman, Keanu Neal, Deion Jones, Austin Hooper

They've run laps around New England with less picks. You have to hit. Belichick consistently has more bites, and consistently misses more than people care to admit, but it doesn't matter because he still has Brady and he is the best coach to ever do it. You prefer their style, which is clear and not right/wrong, but I don't think you can truly complain about TD's record over that time period. Especially recently. What separates the Patriots is the picks outside the top 100:

James White, Shaq Mason, Trey Flowers, Elandon Roberts, Malcolm Butler, Marcus Cannon. Beyond that, when you add guys like Edelman, Ninkovich, and Slater, you see where they make up for the tons of early round misses. 

Again, compare that to just since DQ has been here:

Hardy, Jarrett, Campbell, Schweitzer, Kazee, Ito, Gage, Oluokon. 

Before DQ got here, I think the biggest hit outside of the top 100 was Kroy Biermann. I don't count Rico and Freeman, because they were Smitty picks but DQ made them the players they are now. 

Sorry to make this a long post lol but I think when you truly look at it, TD with DQ has been killing the draft consistently enough that even trading to make sure they get the guys they want, they're doubling down on the back end as well, something the Pats can't say. They have more picks, but we have more product. Without Belichick and Brady, people would be cringing at that draft record. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, vel said:

I don't think that's a fair way of looking at it. More bites doesn't matter if you aren't hitting. Of those 32 bites, let's go just to the 2016 SB since it's a Falcons-Patriots comp, the Patriots had:

Nate Solder, Donta Hightower, Malcom Brown, Joe Thuney

Those are the only top 100 picks they had on the 2016 team that played in the SB and had an impact, starting with the 2011 draft. That's four players. Compared to:

Julio Jones, Desmond Trufant, Robert Alford, Jake Matthews, Rashede Hageman, Vic Beasley, Jalen Collins, Tevin Coleman, Keanu Neal, Deion Jones, Austin Hooper

They've run laps around New England with less picks. You have to hit. Belichick consistently has more bites, and consistently misses more than people care to admit, but it doesn't matter because he still has Brady and he is the best coach to ever do it. You prefer their style, which is clear and not right/wrong, but I don't think you can truly complain about TD's record over that time period. Especially recently. What separates the Patriots is the picks outside the top 100:

James White, Shaq Mason, Trey Flowers, Elandon Roberts, Malcolm Butler, Marcus Cannon. Beyond that, when you add guys like Edelman, Ninkovich, and Slater, you see where they make up for the tons of early round misses. 

Again, compare that to just since DQ has been here:

Hardy, Jarrett, Campbell, Schweitzer, Kazee, Ito, Gage, Oluokon. 

Before DQ got here, I think the biggest hit outside of the top 100 was Kroy Biermann. I don't count Rico and Freeman, because they were Smitty picks but DQ made them the players they are now. 

Sorry to make this a long post lol but I think when you truly look at it, TD with DQ has been killing the draft consistently enough that even trading to make sure they get the guys they want, they're doubling down on the back end as well, something the Pats can't say. They have more picks, but we have more product. Without Belichick and Brady, people would be cringing at that draft record. 

I think Freeman, Rico, Hawely & Reynolds are solid picks.  But I see your point.

I’m talking about us.  We draft better than the Patriots.  What we could do with those extra 10 or 12 top-100 picks is all I care about. In the 2nd/3rd we have taken Oliver, Senat, Debo, Hooper, Collins, Coleman, Hageman, Alford, Peters, Moore, Lofton, Douglass, DeCoud etc.  

 

The more players we can get like that the better off we are

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, vel said:

I don't think that's a fair way of looking at it. More bites doesn't matter if you aren't hitting. Of those 32 bites, let's go just to the 2016 SB since it's a Falcons-Patriots comp, the Patriots had:

Nate Solder, Donta Hightower, Malcom Brown, Joe Thuney

Those are the only top 100 picks they had on the 2016 team that played in the SB and had an impact, starting with the 2011 draft. That's four players. Compared to:

Julio Jones, Desmond Trufant, Robert Alford, Jake Matthews, Rashede Hageman, Vic Beasley, Jalen Collins, Tevin Coleman, Keanu Neal, Deion Jones, Austin Hooper

They've run laps around New England with less picks. You have to hit. Belichick consistently has more bites, and consistently misses more than people care to admit, but it doesn't matter because he still has Brady and he is the best coach to ever do it. You prefer their style, which is clear and not right/wrong, but I don't think you can truly complain about TD's record over that time period. Especially recently. What separates the Patriots is the picks outside the top 100:

James White, Shaq Mason, Trey Flowers, Elandon Roberts, Malcolm Butler, Marcus Cannon. Beyond that, when you add guys like Edelman, Ninkovich, and Slater, you see where they make up for the tons of early round misses. 

Again, compare that to just since DQ has been here:

Hardy, Jarrett, Campbell, Schweitzer, Kazee, Ito, Gage, Oluokon. 

Before DQ got here, I think the biggest hit outside of the top 100 was Kroy Biermann. I don't count Rico and Freeman, because they were Smitty picks but DQ made them the players they are now. 

Sorry to make this a long post lol but I think when you truly look at it, TD with DQ has been killing the draft consistently enough that even trading to make sure they get the guys they want, they're doubling down on the back end as well, something the Pats can't say. They have more picks, but we have more product. Without Belichick and Brady, people would be cringing at that draft record. 

In a nutshell. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

I’m talking about us.  We draft better than the Patriots.  What we could do with those extra 10 or 12 top-100 picks is all I care about. In the 2nd/3rd we have taken Oliver, Senat, Debo, Hooper, Collins, Coleman, Hageman, Alford, Peters, Moore, Lofton, Douglass, DeCoud etc.  

 

The more players we can get like that the better off we are

While that may be true the difference is you have to hit more if you don’t get more shots. And it still only matters about the core of your team. We have a strong core. We have a top 3 qb. That’s all you need. A core around that and it’s a playoff team every year. Also nobody factors in the pats NEVER have a saints to compete with. A panthers to compete with. Even a bucks to compete with. They skate thru they’d division every year because nobody challenges them. Put the pats in our division. How well do they fair. Even with Brady? They’d miss a few playoffs I can guarantee. 

FalconsIn2020 and vel like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

While that may be true the difference is you have to hit more if you don’t get more shots. And it still only matters about the core of your team. We have a strong core. We have a top 3 qb. That’s all you need. A core around that and it’s a playoff team every year. Also nobody factors in the pats NEVER have a saints to compete with. A panthers to compete with. Even a bucks to compete with. They skate thru they’d division every year because nobody challenges them. Put the pats in our division. How well do they fair. Even with Brady? They’d miss a few playoffs I can guarantee. 

Man I say that every year. They have no comp in the division. It's literally 6 games of cake walk every year. Win one game in the postseason and you're back in the AFCCG. It was the same with the Colts with Peyton and the AFC South. The NFC South is such a gauntlet every year. 

Iron Saint likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, vel said:

Man I say that every year. They have no comp in the division. It's literally 6 games of cake walk every year. Win one game in the postseason and you're back in the AFCCG. It was the same with the Colts with Peyton and the AFC South. The NFC South is such a gauntlet every year. 

It’s odd that the Patriots have a lower winning % inside their division than outside.  

But if we are being honest, if the Patriots were in the NFC South, don’t you still think they’d have 14-15 division crowns since 2001?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, vel said:

Man I say that every year. They have no comp in the division. It's literally 6 games of cake walk every year. Win one game in the postseason and you're back in the AFCCG. It was the same with the Colts with Peyton and the AFC South. The NFC South is such a gauntlet every year. 

It's why I refuse to call Brady the definitive GOAT. He's the luckiest athlete I've ever seen. Nobody has been set up for success like he has. I've had countless arguments with sports fans about this. I love the argument that gets thrown at me of "But that's not what happened....what happened is he WON." So stupid.

Iron Saint likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/10/2019 at 0:58 PM, TheFatboi said:

Mini camp. Not training camp. I told everybody last year to worry if he doesn’t show to training camp. I also said if he shows up to Matt’s camp he’ll be there for training camp. All happened just that way. I don’t worry about anything but training camp for player hold outs cause that’s when it all counts. Pads come on a separate the men from the boys. 

Oh....I thought you were saying that he didn't hold out last year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/10/2019 at 0:13 PM, JD dirtybird21 said:

Holding out is missing training camp. He missed a couple mini camps last year. It didn't stop his production or diminish the flow of the offense clearly.

Really? Ok...thanks!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

It’s odd that the Patriots have a lower winning % inside their division than outside.  

But if we are being honest, if the Patriots were in the NFC South, don’t you still think they’d have 14-15 division crowns since 2001?

14-15? HeIl no! Lol look at some of those NFC South champs. They would have had trouble with Vick in 04. Trouble with Brees in 06 and 09. Cam in 2015. Falcons in 16. That's just a handful of teams. They're good, but playing Sanchez, Fitzpatrick, and whoever in Miami for the better part of a decade would have netted Matt more division titles.

1 hour ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

It's why I refuse to call Brady the definitive GOAT. He's the luckiest athlete I've ever seen. Nobody has been set up for success like he has. I've had countless arguments with sports fans about this. I love the argument that gets thrown at me of "But that's not what happened....what happened is he WON." So stupid.

I love Brady. Bruh is a downright dawg. But he definitely benefits from a more ideal situation. Luck plays a big role though. Montana is what without Walsh, for example. They still have to win, but having the best coach on your team and a severely talent depleted division to practice against all year, every year helps. We saw what happened the moment the Jets got any semblance of talent and coaching, they stole the division right out from under the Pats. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, vel said:

14-15? HeIl no! Lol look at some of those NFC South champs. They would have had trouble with Vick in 04. Trouble with Brees in 06 and 09. Cam in 2015. Falcons in 16. That's just a handful of teams. They're good, but playing Sanchez, Fitzpatrick, and whoever in Miami for the better part of a decade would have netted Matt more division titles.

I love Brady. Bruh is a downright dawg. But he definitely benefits from a more ideal situation. Luck plays a big role though. Montana is what without Walsh, for example. They still have to win, but having the best coach on your team and a severely talent depleted division to practice against all year, every year helps. We saw what happened the moment the Jets got any semblance of talent and coaching, they stole the division right out from under the Pats. 

For me, it’s about what I see the QB’s abilities are. For instance, Rodgers and Peyton are both significantly more talented at their positions than Brady ever has been. They have definitely had tougher jobs to do their whole careers

vel likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, vel said:

14-15? HeIl no! Lol look at some of those NFC South champs. They would have had trouble with Vick in 04. Trouble with Brees in 06 and 09. Cam in 2015. Falcons in 16. That's just a handful of teams. They're good, but playing Sanchez, Fitzpatrick, and whoever in Miami for the better part of a decade would have netted Matt more division titles.

I love Brady. Bruh is a downright dawg. But he definitely benefits from a more ideal situation. Luck plays a big role though. Montana is what without Walsh, for example. They still have to win, but having the best coach on your team and a severely talent depleted division to practice against all year, every year helps. We saw what happened the moment the Jets got any semblance of talent and coaching, they stole the division right out from under the Pats. 

Brady is the GOAT.  There isn’t any discussion IMO.  He makes his receivers and OL look better than they are.  Even at 41 he still does it.

Montana is who most say is his competition.  But he played in a non-CAP era and as such had more weapons and a genius calling his plays.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

Brady is the GOAT.  There isn’t any discussion IMO.  He makes his receivers and OL look better than they are.  Even at 41 he still does it.

Montana is who most say is his competition.  But he played in a non-CAP era and as such had more weapons and a genius calling his plays.  

 

People call Brady and Montana the best because they’ve won rings. Nothing else. And i disagree that Brady makes everyone around him better. I think Belichick and his system make Brady better than HE actually is 

Yo_Lover and vel like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/10/2019 at 5:27 AM, Vandy said:

Never understood the mentality of turning on players once they start getting paid....he’s not alone, there’s quite a few in here who begrudge star players getting rewarded. 

Free is another example...board turned on him mercilessly, and use every excuse to diss him. I hope he shuts them up this upcoming year like Julio has the past few seasons....

This there’s so much dumb written in this thread I’ve taken 7 pages to enter it.There are alot of the usual suspects commenting about something they no very little about.

You watch some of these donkeys that moan about Julio will tell you how important DEbo and Neal are and in the same sentence talk out the side of there mouths when the mentioned also get paid.

They got zero idea how this works zero idea what team building actually is I’m like what the :bang::doh::shrug:.

Vandy likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/10/2019 at 5:47 AM, FalconsIn2020 said:

@Vandy

I support all players.  But the ones I truly want to get paid their worth are the mid level veterans.  Julio has generational wealth now.  He and his progeny are fine

But players like Davison who are established and productive veterans.  Dude is only making $700,000.  And before anyone says that’s a lot, his paychecks will add up to $375,000.   Then he pays his agent etc.  People on this board bring home more than that man.  And his career window is fixed at 12 fleeting years.

I hear this aswell but the fact of the matter is for the business of running the team and making money that’s not the world we live in.

Guys like Daivison just don’t hold the same value as a Julio Ryan Jones x 2 Neal and alike.

Julio as an example puts bums on seats does all the flashy stuff the people pay to see.

Davision types do dirty work and you have to really watch the game to see why his job holds a lot of value.Unfortunately the masses don’t come along and pay to see that.

FalconsIn2020 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/10/2019 at 5:47 AM, FalconsIn2020 said:

@Vandy

I support all players.  But the ones I truly want to get paid their worth are the mid level veterans.  Julio has generational wealth now.  He and his progeny are fine

But players like Davison who are established and productive veterans.  Dude is only making $700,000.  And before anyone says that’s a lot, his paychecks will add up to $375,000.   Then he pays his agent etc.  People on this board bring home more than that man.  And his career window is fixed at 12 fleeting years.

This is the thing too Grady Jarrett has played on a similar deal for the last 4 seasons and now it’s his turn to lock in generational possibly a one time in a life time deal to set himself up and yet still we have the same fans bagging him for being greedy and speculating what he may want because no one actually knows.

Media reports something and fans run with it but really who knows.

slickgadawg likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, JD dirtybird21 said:

People call Brady and Montana the best because they’ve won rings. Nothing else. And i disagree that Brady makes everyone around him better. I think Belichick and his system make Brady better than HE actually is 

This. If you can go 11-5 with Matt Cassell I'm convinced he could use Jacoby Brisett and just pour money into one elite WR/TE and the rest into defense and still win rings.

athell, ya_boi_j and Iron Saint like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now