apl2g

Julio has no plans to hold out..

226 posts in this topic

Just now, Williamb said:

His signature gave them that right. I'm all for Julio getting paid, and for all the money he can get out of the team. That goes for any other player too. But all this crap about players being bankrupt after they retire and stuff is ridiculous. Hire a freaking agent and financial manager that is worth their salary. Stay your butt in school for the (free somewhat) four years, and get an education that is worth something. AND, just like in marriages, divorces, mortgages, and others, Honor your contract. Otherwise don't sign one giving management the upper hand. This is just my point of view as a man, not a professional player of a game.

lol you referenced marriages as a comparison to honoring your contract?  Mortgages?  lol dude...divorce rates are at an all time high.  People foreclose on their homes all the time.  Contracts are about as valuable as the paper they are printed on.

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34 minutes ago, athell said:

Yep.  And that doesn't even get into the injuries and long term prognosis for most of these guys.  People acting like they would take less than they are worth are not being honest with themselves.

When players like Julio get their market worth they are actually RAISING the market for the lower salaried players.  Somebody made a comment in this thread about a player having a $700,000 salary. He got to THAT little bit because of players holding out in the past.   

There are major league baseball players RIGHT NOW who hate Ronald Acuna and despise Ozzie Albies of the Braves because they took VASTLY undermarket contracts from the Braves early this season.  Those players will not come out in the public and say it but those two Braves players basically destroyed the collective bargaining agreement and gave the owners a new way to underpay major league players...

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Just now, slickgadawg said:

When players like Julio get their market worth they are actually RAISING the market for the lower salaried players.  Somebody made a comment in this thread about a player having a $700,000 salary. He got to THAT little bit because of players holding out in the past.   

There are major league baseball players RIGHT NOW who hate Ronald Acuna and despise Ozzie Albies of the Braves because they took VASTLY undermarket contracts from the Braves early this season.  Those players will not come out in the public and say it but those two Braves players basically destroyed the collective bargaining agreement and gave the owners a new way to underpay major league players...

Facts on facts

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1 minute ago, athell said:

lol you referenced marriages as a comparison to honoring your contract?  Mortgages?  lol dude...divorce rates are at an all time high.  People foreclose on their homes all the time.  Contracts are about as valuable as the paper they are printed on.

So the fact that everyone does it makes it right? Again, not arguing against Julio getting his money. I truly hope he does. I'm arguing that he shouldn't be expected to hold out. Especially when there's 2 years left on his contract

 

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1 minute ago, Williamb said:

So the fact that everyone does it makes it right? Again, not arguing against Julio getting his money. I truly hope he does. I'm arguing that he shouldn't be expected to hold out. Especially when there's 2 years left on his contract

 

Well fortunately he isn't holding out and he never has. So it's all good

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2 minutes ago, athell said:

Facts on facts

I agree, both got poor contracts for the contract years.

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6 minutes ago, athell said:

lol you referenced marriages as a comparison to honoring your contract?  Mortgages?  lol dude...divorce rates are at an all time high.  People foreclose on their homes all the time.  Contracts are about as valuable as the paper they are printed on.

You can't move in this society without signing a bad contract unless you live in your car and even then you can get jailed for loitering...

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4 minutes ago, Williamb said:

So the fact that everyone does it makes it right? Again, not arguing against Julio getting his money. I truly hope he does. I'm arguing that he shouldn't be expected to hold out. Especially when there's 2 years left on his contract

 

It was never wrong though I guess is my point?  Why is it deemed wrong for a player to try to make the most he can make while no one cares when a franchise terminates the contract of a player prematurely?  

As JD mentioned, he said he isn't holding out, so this shouldn't even be a thing.

Also people keep getting caught up in the years.  The years don't really matter.  Look at the guaranteed money and average salary and you will see why Julio wants an extension.

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15 minutes ago, Williamb said:

So the fact that everyone does it makes it right? Again, not arguing against Julio getting his money. I truly hope he does. I'm arguing that he shouldn't be expected to hold out. Especially when there's 2 years left on his contract

 

Julio’s “holding out”? 

As a business owner, I’m negotiating and re-negotiating contracts all the time. Depending on who has the most leverage, sometimes to my benefit and sometimes to my detriment.

And I wouldn’t have it any other way. It’s how the world works in a capitalist democracy. 

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29 minutes ago, athell said:

Couple thoughts on this:

1.  There is never "enough" money.  We, as professionals, never hit a cap on how much we could/should earn in our careers.  Players should make as much as they can in the short amount of time that they can, as you mentioned, fleeting years.

2.  Market value is something people really really need to focus on.  People love to harp on the players, when the reality is there are teams paying much more for much less talented players.

3.  Davison is nowhere near as good at his position as Julio is at his position.  Julio is a hall of fame player.  Davison is just an average nfl player.

Valid points.  My point is people say athletes should get theirs while they can since 50% end up broke in the post NFL lives.  People like Ryan & Julio will never have to worry about that.  It’s the mod-level players that are at risk.  Those are the ones the CBA and NFL should do a better job protecting

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Just now, FalconsIn2020 said:

Valid points.  My point is people say athletes should get theirs while they can since 50% end up broke in the post NFL lives.  People like Ryan & Julio will never have to worry about that.  It’s the mod-level players that are at risk.  Those are the ones the CBA and NFL should do a better job protecting

That's a whole separate issue 

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11 minutes ago, athell said:

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But has any receiver been paid more money than Julii’s 64 million over the last 4 years?  I suspect nobody is within 5 or 6 million.  Just a guess though

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4 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

But has any receiver been paid more money than Julii’s 64 million over the last 4 years?  I suspect nobody is within 5 or 6 million.  Just a guess though

Past money has nothing to do with present and future money though.

Also quick google search, looks like AJ Green has made a hair more but I would have to dive into yearly earnings and I'm feelin lazy...

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5 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

But has any receiver been paid more money than Julii’s 64 million over the last 4 years?  I suspect nobody is within 5 or 6 million.  Just a guess though

As well he should have, since he’s been the best WR in the game during that time. 

But when he inevitably gets hurt or starts declining due to age, falcon’s won’t hesitate to either force him to renegotiate or will cut him. 

See Roddy White.

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3 minutes ago, Vandy said:

As well he should have, since he’s been the best WR in the game during that time. 

But when he inevitably gets hurt or starts declining due to age, falcon’s won’t hesitate to either force him to renegotiate or will cut him. 

See Roddy White.

Savage but true.  Shanny did Roddy dirty.

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8 minutes ago, Vandy said:

As well he should have, since he’s been the best WR in the game during that time. 

But when he inevitably gets hurt or starts declining due to age, falcon’s won’t hesitate to either force him to renegotiate or will cut him. 

See Roddy White.

I agree.  But my point was simply to say his contract was fair then and is still fair now.   It’s not like the Falcons are screwing him over. 

Does 10 mill look like market value?  No.  But he wanted more money last year so it came out of this year.  He wanted his contract front loaded so it was always going to look like below market in years 4 & 5.  It’s why I detest front loading contracts on elite players.  We overpaid him years 1-3 of the contract. In doing so, years 4-5 look weak but he has already been paid much of that money.

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7 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

I agree.  But my point was simply to say his contract was fair then and is still fair now.   It’s not like the Falcons are screwing him over. 

Does 10 mill look like market value?  No.  But he wanted more money last year so it came out of this year.  He wanted his contract front loaded so it was always going to look like below market in years 4 & 5.  It’s why I detest front loading contracts on elite players.  We overpaid him years 1-3 of the contract. In doing so, years 4-5 look weak but he has already been paid much of that money.

Julio’s never been overpaid bro. Fact is, falcons have gotten a bargain. 

Which is fine. Sometimes you get a bargain, other times injuries creep in such as with freeman. 

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11 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Julio’s never been overpaid bro. Fact is, falcons have gotten a bargain. 

Which is fine. Sometimes you get a bargain, other times injuries creep in such as with freeman. 

By front loading the contract you pay over market value early but under market at the end.  Julio getting 38 million his first two years was over the market value of his contract value which was 14.5 mill per year

The contract as a whole was fair for both parties.  It becomes unfair if you ask to redo it once the front loaded portion is paid out.

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17 minutes ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

By front loading the contract you pay over market value early but under market at the end.  Julio getting 38 million his first two years was over the market value of his contract value which was 14.5 mill per year

True. But Julio went on to have one of best seasons ever for a WR that year. My point is even though he was getting over market value, he over-delivered even that. 

Jones has averaged 105/1600 yards per season over that contract. 

Contract was fair at the time, but Falcons ended up getting a bargain. It’s not “unfair” to ask them to redo it when you outperform. It’s done in business world all the time when you have the leverage as Julio does.

Falcons do it all the time too when they have the leverage. Ask Ryan Schraeder.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thefalconswire.usatoday.com/2019/06/02/falcons-ryan-schraeder-salary-cap-official/amp/

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20 hours ago, FalconsIn2020 said:

It’s just his opinion.  Happens to be wrong in this case.

I don’t particularly care, but I understand fans having a legit gripe for Julio demanding a new contract last year with three years left on his old deal  That’s a bit much.  Once all the front loaded money was gone, his agent cried wolf.  

In JJ's case, I can't blame him for asking for a new deal the same year that the team spends a 1st round draft pick on another WR...Calvin Ridley. In Julio's shoes, are they trying to replace me is what I would be thinking. Look what happened with Roddy after they drafted JJ. I would want to make sure that my future is secure as well, based on the past. I don't personally think that they drafted Calvin thinking that we can let JJ walk now, but in JJ's shoes that thought would have to be there given the past. I believe Calvin was drafted because he was BPA at the pick.

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26 minutes ago, Alomar said:

In JJ's case, I can't blame him for asking for a new deal the same year that the team spends a 1st round draft pick on another WR...Calvin Ridley. In Julio's shoes, are they trying to replace me is what I would be thinking. Look what happened with Roddy after they drafted JJ. I would want to make sure that my future is secure as well, based on the past. I don't personally think that they drafted Calvin thinking that we can let JJ walk now, but in JJ's shoes that thought would have to be there given the past. I believe Calvin was drafted because he was BPA at the pick.

LOL. No offense, but I don’t think drafting Ridley had anything to do with it. 

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Just once I want these dudes who argue 'players should honor the contract' to say the team should honor the contract of an underperforming player.

 

Sure he's overpaid and underperforming but we signed him to a four year contract and they need to honor that. Never seen that one for some reason.

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14 minutes ago, Jpowers said:

Just once I want these dudes who argue 'players should honor the contract' to say the team should honor the contract of an underperforming player.

 

Sure he's overpaid and underperforming but we signed him to a four year contract and they need to honor that. Never seen that one for some reason.

For whatever reason (that has never made sense to me) fans side with ownership and not players.  Probably because players come and go but they also win chips...either way...you right.

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