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FalconsIn2012

Honeymoon Over for LaFleur?

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1 hour ago, Yo_Lover said:

Because this board hates him now that Ryan lost a Twitter poll to him.

lol...apparently saying a QB is top 5 = hate.

Wish someone would hate me if that’s the case.    But IMO, Russ takes too many sacks and much of its on him. Two years they had crap OL’s.  In 2016 they spent a shocking 6 million on their entire OL unit.  But 5 years they had above average lines.  

For a team that doesn’t throw much, Wilson’s  sack numbers are terrible:

2012 – Russell Willson took 40 sacks, 6th most in the league.

2013 – Russell Wilson took 51 sacks, 2nd most in the league.

2014 – Russell Wilson took 52 sacks, 2nd most in the league.

2015 – Russell Wilson took 52 sacks, most in the league.

2016 – Russell Wilson took 47 sacks, most in the league.

2017 – Russell Wilson took 43 sacks, 4th most in the league

2018 - Russell Wilson took 52 sacks, most in the league

 

52 sacks on just 3,400 yards passing is not good.

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1 hour ago, Yo_Lover said:

I think he has no choice. Their line isn't good (you might think it is but it's not).

We'll use PFF because I know you like it

RG 48.7 #69th rated guard

C 54.3 #29th Center

LG 45.7 #71 Guard

RT 55.6 #71 tackle

LT 82.3 #5 tackle

Wilson is held back by an absolutely TERRIBLE OC, way worse than any guy Ryan has ever had.  A stubborn HC in Carroll who only wants to run and pass only on third down, and one of the leagues worst lines.

Wilson holds on to the ball longer because he HAS to run out of the pocket, otherwise it's a death sentence.

 

Spot on post  

People on the falcoholic wanted that terrible OC to come here. 

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1 hour ago, Yo_Lover said:

I think he has no choice. Their line isn't good (you might think it is but it's not).

We'll use PFF because I know you like it

RG 48.7 #69th rated guard

C 54.3 #29th Center

LG 45.7 #71 Guard

RT 55.6 #71 tackle

LT 82.3 #5 tackle

Wilson is held back by an absolutely TERRIBLE OC, way worse than any guy Ryan has ever had.  A stubborn HC in Carroll who only wants to run and pass only on third down, and one of the leagues worst lines.

Wilson holds on to the ball longer because he HAS to run out of the pocket, otherwise it's a death sentence.

Once Fluker came back in Week 3 that OL was top 10 the rest of the way. 160 rushing ypg is good line play.  

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 Career sack % for Ryan: 4.9%

Career sack % for Wilson: 9.0% which is really atrocious 

Tracking sacks

Before I show my totals, a disclaimer: some assumptions had to be made in doing this analysis. Blaming sacks on specific players is a subjective exercise. For this reason, my totals will not match other sources, such as ProFootballFocus or FootballOutsiders. But using my understanding of the Seahawks’ play designs and blocking assignments, I tried my best to be reasonable with my assignment of blame.

Sacks-OL-Seattle.png

Based on my tracking, the offensive line, as a whole, was responsible for 23 of Wilson’s 51 sacks.

Seahawks-Time-to-Sack-IMG.png

Wilson-caused sacks

While that last play was a clear example of an offensive lineman being beaten instantly, I blamed Wilson for a whopping 12 sacks this season. He occasionally had issues throwing with anticipation, going through his progressions and missing open check-downs.

That last issue came up on this sack against the 49ers.

San Francisco blitzed one of its cornerbacks, but the offensive line picked up this pressure easily, forming a clean pocket for Wilson to step up and continue reading the field. On the right side, Tyler Lockett ran a hitch route and sat at the first-down marker, which could have been a good place for Wilson to throw the ball if he got to this read more quickly. Instead, Wilson was slow through his progressions and late getting to his receiver.

With all of the downfield options covered, Wilson should have gone to Mike Davis as the check-down out of the backfield. Davis was literally jumping up and down waving for the ball and would have gotten the first down if given a chance. For some reason, Wilson completely missed him. Instead of picking up the easy yards, he scrambled outside of a pocket kept clean for more than five seconds before taking the sack.

Here’s another example where Wilson had an open receiver to keep the drive alive but didn’t pull the trigger.

The Seahawks ran a stick-flat concept on the right while the Raiders dropped into Cover 3. Against a Cover 3 defense, the flat route stretches the underneath sideline defender, creating a hole between him and the hook/curl linebacker. That’s what happened on this play. David Moore was open, but Wilson didn’t take the easy completion.

This play came on a first-and-20, so getting back eight yards on an easy throw would have been beneficial to this offense. Instead, Wilson took a sack when he had an open receiver.

While sacks are only one part of the equation, I think this exercise tells an interesting story: The offensive line is better than the 51 sacks Russell Wilson took this season. The same improvisational ability that allows Wilson to create bigger plays down the field also presents a level of risk: He’s going to take more sacks simply by holding onto the ball too long.

 

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5 hours ago, Vandy said:

That’s way too simple, as one could just as easily argue as does Matt.

Using any single metric is overly simplistic.  You are right about that.  But all the metrics say the same thing.  Excluding rookies, Russell Wilson’s 3.1 seconds to throw is the highest in the NFL.  Surprisingly, A-Rod was next in line at  2.96 seconds.

In seasons where the Seahawks lacked a running game, Wilson wasn’t spectacular. When they asked him to throw 546 times in 2016, he finished with 21 touchdowns, 11 interceptions and a career-low passer rating 

When they asked him to throw 553 times in 2017, he finished with a career-low completion percentage as the Seahawks missed the playoffs.

Even last year, Wilson had 17 sacks where he had the ball in his hands over 4 seconds.  He just doesn’t make quick decisions.  

Meanwhile, Ryan was sacked in 1.4 seconds vs the Saints...an NFL record.  lol 

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5 minutes ago, DriveHomeSafelyAtlantaWins said:

He dam well might be. He is probably right ... you’d need a helluva strong argument to take much away from his freedom at the LOS.

So much of the Shannahan system is based on pre-snap motion and specific personnel formations that audibles are pointless...or there simply isn’t enough time.  LaFleur’s Logic is sound:

 

Many of LaFleur's play calls will require pre-snap activity, such as players going in motion, that complicate any potential departure from the script, and narrowly reduce the window on the play clock within which Rodgers must operate. Says one coach familiar with the system: "The time you actually have to change the play, on a 40-second clock, is so limited. There are so many nuances to it, that by the time you get through everything there are maybe 10 seconds at the line of scrimmage." 

Additionally, some of the personnel and formations are so specific to certain play calls that it's tough, if not futile, to change on the fly. 

"I think that has a lot to do with it," LaFleur said. "We move a lot more. There's a lot more motion. There are a lot more moving parts. And so if you just let the quarterback have that freedom to just get to whatever, I'm afraid it would slow our guys down. Now, he is a special talent and he's got an incredible mind, so as we move forward throughout this process he's getting more freedom. It's just, where is that happy medium?" 

LaFleur believes his system will greatly benefit his quarterback, both by relieving pressure in the pocket (through the implementation of a zone-read-based rushing attack, and the accompanying play-action throws) and pushing him to get rid of the ball quickly on most passing plays. In the past, Rodgers has shown a penchant for buying time, both inside and outside the pocket, and bailing the Packers out of tough situations by making exceptional throws.”

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4 hours ago, Yo_Lover said:

I'm more than fine with having a QB who believes he can make **** into gold instead of a QB who says "well this play isn't working" and gives up.

Especially one in as bad a situation as him.

I agree with you completely on this.  Russ is a wonderful competitor.  It’s hard to blame a guy for trying to make a play.  But sometimes you take the L on a play and throw the ball away.  

 

We all all agree that Wilson is a stud.  This is just the one area of his game I think he needs to fix before I can say he is the best quarterback in football

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7 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Using any single metric is overly simplistic.  You are right about that.  But all the metrics say the same thing.  Excluding rookies, Russell Wilson’s 3.1 seconds to throw is the highest in the NFL.  Surprisingly, A-Rod was next in line at  2.96 seconds.

In seasons where the Seahawks lacked a running game, Wilson wasn’t spectacular. When they asked him to throw 546 times in 2016, he finished with 21 touchdowns, 11 interceptions and a career-low passer rating 

When they asked him to throw 553 times in 2017, he finished with a career-low completion percentage as the Seahawks missed the playoffs.

Even last year, Wilson had 17 sacks where he had the ball in his hands over 4 seconds.  He just doesn’t make quick decisions.  

Meanwhile, Ryan was sacked in 1.4 seconds vs the Saints...an NFL record.  lol 

You mean that 2016 career low passing rating of 92.6 which was better than 7 of matt’s 11 seasons? LOL, you’re grasping at straws with your data-mining, my man....

No playoffs in 2017 with no running game and no offensive line. How many times has Matt's teams even come close to making the playoffs without both.....see 2013, 2014, 2018.......much less winning 9 games as Seahawks did thanks primarily to Wilson’s play that season? He was Seattle’s entire offense, and one could make a strong case he should have won league MVP that year. 

Doesn't make quick decisions? Are you serious? Get out of here with that nonsense 2012, you’re a better poster than that. RW is one of the best in the business at making quick decisions at the QB position. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fieldgulls.com/platform/amp/kenneth-arthur/2016/10/12/13257516/the-increasingly-quick-decisions-of-russell-wilson

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15 hours ago, mattyicefalcon said:

When you win a Lombardi and are considered to be most clutch QB under 2mins remaining then you can do whatever the **** you want.

Not everyone is Tom Brady

He's not the most clutch QB under 2 minutes. Ryan has 27 4th quarter comebacks [11th all time] & 36 game winning drives in 11 years [10th all time].

Rodgers has 14 4QCs and 20 GWDs in 14 years.

And, before anybody starts, I know that Rodgers sat for 3 years, don't care.

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10 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

I think you’re way off on Bevell.  He is a very, very good OC.  It’s who I wanted in Atlanta since Scangarello wasn’t a consideration.  Cable was the Seahawks problem.  But Bevell is great.  Here are his offensive DVOA rankings

2012 - 4th

2013 - 7th

2014 - 5th

2015 - 2nd

2016 - 12th

2016 - 16th

 

Bevell is trash.

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10 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

lol...apparently saying a QB is top 5 = hate.

Wish someone would hate me if that’s the case.    But IMO, Russ takes too many sacks and much of its on him. Two years they had crap OL’s.  In 2016 they spent a shocking 6 million on their entire OL unit.  But 5 years they had above average lines.  

For a team that doesn’t throw much, Wilson’s  sack numbers are terrible:

2012 – Russell Willson took 40 sacks, 6th most in the league.

2013 – Russell Wilson took 51 sacks, 2nd most in the league.

2014 – Russell Wilson took 52 sacks, 2nd most in the league.

2015 – Russell Wilson took 52 sacks, most in the league.

2016 – Russell Wilson took 47 sacks, most in the league.

2017 – Russell Wilson took 43 sacks, 4th most in the league

2018 - Russell Wilson took 52 sacks, most in the league

 

52 sacks on just 3,400 yards passing is not good.

His line is terrible. Ryan would get smacked around too if he was in that offense.

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10 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Once Fluker came back in Week 3 that OL was top 10 the rest of the way. 160 rushing ypg is good line play.  

Fluker had one of the worst ratings for a guard. He's *** too.

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8 minutes ago, Yo_Lover said:

His line is terrible. Ryan would get smacked around too if he was in that offense.

I don’t understand why that is so hard to comprehend. The Seahawks have had the worst offensive line for about 6 years now. They traded their only decent player (Unger) for a tight end who can’t block. It’s like they blatantly avoid addressing the line because of Wilson’s ability to evade pressure. Blaming Wilson for “holding on to the ball for too long” makes no sense 

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10 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Wilson’s  sack numbers are terrible:

wow, i really didnt think there was a qb who took as many sacks as MR over the course of time.  If Wilson wasnt so mobile he would take even more..

 

are there numbers for hits and hurries taken?

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15 hours ago, DawnOfThemBirds said:

 

I thought Rodgers had signed off on LaFleuer getting hired?

 

I wonder what was sold to Rodgers during their first meeting?

I don't even think the 2 even talked for quite some time after he was hired. According to reports Aaron was told specifically not to be the problem. Love Aaron as a player in the league but don't know if he's that good of a human being off the field.

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