red falcon

Vic missing von's camp due to his charity event

132 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Knight of God said:

That or stupid, or don’t realize he regressed after Manuel changed the system. We haven’t used a straight up Over/Under in 2 yrs.

Yep. That’s a fact. We haven’t run the stunt combo’s we ran in 2016. I know Quinn is installing a lot of tht stuff back in the scheme. That’s why we’ll see more standing LB from him and Takk this season. I think Quinn is getting back to business. He already said Manuel was let go because he felt we got away from OUR STYLE OF PLAY!!! Ppl just don’t pay attention and hear only what they want to hear. The other half things it’s always “coach speak”. 

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2 minutes ago, TheFatboi said:

Yep. That’s a fact. We haven’t run the stunt combo’s we ran in 2016. I know Quinn is installing a lot of tht stuff back in the scheme. That’s why we’ll see more standing LB from him and Takk this season. I think Quinn is getting back to business. He already said Manuel was let go because he felt we got away from OUR STYLE OF PLAY!!! Ppl just don’t pay attention and hear only what they want to hear. The other half things it’s always “coach speak”. 

People don’t understand this. 

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1 hour ago, Knight of God said:

Uh...yeah, sorry to say but the system does matter. 

Sir, if you are one on one with the tackle and the coach says “get to the QB” there is absolutely nothing systematic about that. Nothing. Vic has had a bunch of opportunities and the last two years his cumulative sack total doesn’t even surpass 10...

I would like to think that if you’re really a pass rushing threat you’ll be able to get more sacks than that or impact the game regardless if you change coaches. Khalil Mack hasn’t missed one step.

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17 minutes ago, Macintez said:

Sir, if you are one on one with the tackle and the coach says “get to the QB” there is absolutely nothing systematic about that. Nothing. Vic has had a bunch of opportunities and the last two years his cumulative sack total doesn’t even surpass 10...

I would like to think that if you’re really a pass rushing threat you’ll be able to get more sacks than that or impact the game regardless if you change coaches. Khalil Mack hasn’t missed one step.

Trust me it matters. Mack and Beasley don’t have the same skill set either. This is what I have said many times on this board, too many variables in football because they are actual people.

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18 minutes ago, Macintez said:

Sir, if you are one on one with the tackle and the coach says “get to the QB” there is absolutely nothing systematic about that. Nothing. Vic has had a bunch of opportunities and the last two years his cumulative sack total doesn’t even surpass 10...

I would like to think that if you’re really a pass rushing threat you’ll be able to get more sacks than that or impact the game regardless if you change coaches. Khalil Mack hasn’t missed one step.

Also, you have to look at the total line in some cases and what they are asked to do. Vic did a lot of faux rush. Going in and backing into LOS zone like crap. 

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13 hours ago, TheFatboi said:

Yep. That’s a fact. We haven’t run the stunt combo’s we ran in 2016. I know Quinn is installing a lot of tht stuff back in the scheme. That’s why we’ll see more standing LB from him and Takk this season. I think Quinn is getting back to business. He already said Manuel was let go because he felt we got away from OUR STYLE OF PLAY!!! Ppl just don’t pay attention and hear only what they want to hear. The other half things it’s always “coach speak”. 

Are you certain we moved away from running 4-3 under the last 2 years?  I never noticed that...Quinn/Manuel seemed to always retain a 4-3 base with lots of 3-4 looks.  We certainly didn’t use as many stunt/twist combos ala 2016 which is baffling for a DL built to be fast and versatile.

Unlike y’all I don’t think Manuel was a bad DC.  Perhaps overwhelmed last year.  But Quinn trusted him.  Manuel even made our nickel defensive calls for Quinn from KC game thru the SB in 2016.  Which pretty much means he was calling the defense everyone is clamoring for now.

And last year, the one hailed as unaggressive, brought more pressure than Quinn ever would have once Debo returned to the lineup.

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15 hours ago, Faithful Falcon said:

If that's the case, just take it as he's dedicated to his charity, and STFU. If he cancelled it, you MFs would have criticized him for that. 

I wouldn’t have. If I was Beasley, I would prioritize my craft above all else (or God first for him), and would have scheduled my event way before I should be training for the most important season of my life. 

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9 hours ago, Yo_Lover said:

How is he supposed to do that when he plans it MONTHS in advance and Miller just announced his thing less than a month ago?

Schedule it before OTAs

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2 hours ago, droopy1592 said:

I wouldn’t have. If I was Beasley, I would prioritize my craft above all else (or God first for him), and would have scheduled my event way before I should be training for the most important season of my life. 

It’s still early summer time, just not that big of a deal. 

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I think we all have or had high expectations for Vic.  Honestly, it appears that our expectations where higher than his own.  I can't blame the guy for not going to this when he has a charity event.  He is a vet now and should know what is needed to succeed.  I feel that he has been skating buy with the exception of 2016.  If things don't change real quick, his time in the NFL will be done by the time he reaches 28.  People will always go "crazy" over the physical tools he presents, but he doesn't appear to have any "Dawg" in him.  He doesn't go out there on Sunday's looking to "hunt".  That's just not who he is, he doesn't have that switch that he flips.  His life, his tools, his gifts, hate for him not to reach his full potential, but he is not the first and will not be the last.

Edited by isproab
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10 hours ago, TheFatboi said:

Yep. That’s a fact. We haven’t run the stunt combo’s we ran in 2016. I know Quinn is installing a lot of tht stuff back in the scheme. That’s why we’ll see more standing LB from him and Takk this season. I think Quinn is getting back to business. He already said Manuel was let go because he felt we got away from OUR STYLE OF PLAY!!! Ppl just don’t pay attention and hear only what they want to hear. The other half things it’s always “coach speak”. 

My problem with Quinn is that he let’s his coordinators get away with that for a whole season without doing anything about it. 

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43 minutes ago, Vandy said:

It’s still early summer time, just not that big of a deal. 

When you’re a professional, your craft is a big deal, especially if it means the difference between selling car insurance and getting a huge contract next year. My only point is if it was that important to him, he’d get an early start on getting his **** together in his most important year. He has a lot to work on. This season could mean the difference between a huge contract and none at all with him being rated worst DE in the NFL last year. You have the talent, you make sure you’re applying yourself. He’s delusional, telling his fans he will have a gold jacket one day. 

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20 minutes ago, droopy1592 said:

When you’re a professional, your craft is a big deal, especially if it means the difference between selling car insurance and getting a huge contract next year. My only point is if it was that important to him, he’d get an early start on getting his **** together in his most important year. He has a lot to work on. This season could mean the difference between a huge contract and none at all with him being rated worst DE in the NFL last year. You have the talent, you make sure you’re applying yourself. He’s delusional, telling his fans he will have a gold jacket one day. 

I would be so bold to add, if it wasn't for the NFL job, his lil charity wouldn't have much meat on it's bones. 

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22 hours ago, red falcon said:

 

Would say in before the idiots start to hate but too late..man was running a CHARITY the same day to help a community and folks **** giving him **** for it lol jesus yall quit playin

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2 minutes ago, RoddyWhite84 said:

Would say in before the idiots start to hate but too late..man was running a CHARITY the same day to help a community and folks **** giving him **** for it lol jesus yall quit playin

You didnt capitalize "Jesus"

Put some respeckt on it! :lol:

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Just now, RoddyWhite84 said:

Oh you right my bad lol:lol:

Everybody arguing over this charity mess, I figured I'll put something out there more meaningful that what this has turned into.

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7 minutes ago, droopy1592 said:

It was over this past weekend 

Who cares about the Von summit.  Honestly.  I’m disappointed his skipped OTA’s because for the first time Quinn is his everyday coach so much could be gained over those 4 weeks of OTA’s.  But I’d rather he give back to the community than attend s pass rushing summit for two days

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2 hours ago, droopy1592 said:

When you’re a professional, your craft is a big deal, especially if it means the difference between selling car insurance and getting a huge contract next year. My only point is if it was that important to him, he’d get an early start on getting his **** together in his most important year. He has a lot to work on. This season could mean the difference between a huge contract and none at all with him being rated worst DE in the NFL last year. You have the talent, you make sure you’re applying yourself. He’s delusional, telling his fans he will have a gold jacket one day. 

I don’t disagree, as I’m also an ‘all-in’ mind-set kind of guy.

But neither you nor I know what all he’s been doing this offseason. If he’s putting in the work, missing a media-hyped von Miller 3-day workshop isn’t going to make that big of a difference. 

Frankly, I’m more disappointed he missed OTAs.

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3 minutes ago, Vandy said:

I don’t disagree, as I’m also an ‘all-in’ mind-set kind of guy.

But neither you nor I know what all he’s been doing this offseason. If he’s putting in the work, missing a media-hyped von Miller 3-day workshop isn’t going to make that big of a difference. 

Frankly, I’m more disappointed he missed OTAs.

I think that's the point some of us are making. Whether it was the VM camp or the charity, doing either after missing an OTA that, based on his body of work thus far, he couldn't afford to miss, makes him look worse. If he doesn't ball out, he'll get the "Bust" tag. 

Then he'll go to NE and become a beast.

:bang:

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3 hours ago, GrimeyKidd said:

My problem with Quinn is that he let’s his coordinators get away with that for a whole season without doing anything about it. 

Quinn had a heavy hand in the defense in 2017 & 2018.  He may have let Manuel call the plays, but he helped set the gameplan and listened to every call Manuel made, providing input constantly.  Here is an interesting article on the dynamic last year:

 

Atlanta Falcons: Marquand Manuel a Case of Teacher Failing Student

Marquand Manuel was a promising up and coming young coach. As a player Manuel retired in 2009, so he is less than ten years removed from the field. It has been said that he has a special ability to identify with the players on their level.

After promoting Manuel, Quinn said he will still have a heavy hand on the defense “Moving forward, [Manuel] will call it and I'll be involved, like I always am," Quinn said. "I'll be involved a lot. That connection that he and I have is strong. I'm excited to see him do his thing. With [linebackers coach] Jeff Ulbrich there and [defensive pass game coordinator] Jerome Henderson there, and Marquand and myself, and we added [defensive line coach] Bryant Young into the mix -- we've got a really strong staff."

 

Marquand Manuel has been credited with helping Ricardo Allen and Damontae Kazeesuccessfully convert from cornerback to free safety. He’s also been essential in the development of strong safety Keanu Neal.

As a play caller the Atlanta Falcons enjoyed their best defensive season in many years, as Manuel dialed up the defenses. For the first time in a long time, the Dirty Birds ranked top 10 in total defense. In fact they ranked number nine in all of football. They also ranked eighth in scoring defense, allowing just 19.7 points per contest.

 

The 2017 Atlanta Falcons were good against the pass, ranking number 12 in the NFL. They were even better against the run placing eighth. In fact the defense was so stout, that Atlanta was undefeated when the offense scored 20 or more points in a game.

The Dirty Birds were enjoying their best defensive success in the Dan Quinn era. Marquand Manuel was said to be on the radar as a future NFL head coach. He was certainly one of the hottest young coordinators in the league, a potential young genius, a possible Sean McVeigh on the defensive side of the field.

Sadly the wheels fell off, in this the 2018 season. Injuries struck early and they struck hard. Pro Bowl players, linebacker Deion Jonesand safety Keanu Neal went on the injured reserve list. Keanu Neal did not return. Ricardo Allen the other starting safety was injured for the season as well.

Stud defensive tackle Grady Jarrett was also injured for two games. The Atlanta Falcons were suddenly decimated with injuries. The next men up did not fare well at many positions. Linebacker Duke Riley and safety Jordan Richards were particularly inadequate replacements for Deion Jones and Keanu Neal.

Free Agent signee defensive tackle Terrell McClain was a bust replacing the departed Dontari Poe. Dan Quinn and general manager Thomas Dimitroff decided against trading for defensive reinforcements, stating that they had the men to get the job done in-house. In hindsight this was a major error in judgment.

With all of the injuries, the Atlanta Falcons defensive rankings plummeted. They fell to number 28 in total defense and number 25 in scoring defense. They ranked number 27 against the pass and number 25 against the run. The points allowed increased from 19.7 to 26.4. Atlanta allowed 30 or more points six times.

Pass rush has been an achilles heel for the Dirty Birds. Former top ten draft pick Vic Beasleyposting only five sacks for the second year in a row, is a major reason for the Falcons pass rush being anemic.

 

The defensive backs, Marquand Manuel’s area of expertise, were not good as a unit. The cornerbacks Desmond Trufant and Robert Alfordwere sub par. Alford was among the worst in the NFL.

Incredibly neither of the Falcons starting cornerbacks got an interception all season. With that being said, both players are veterans, so how much blame should Manuel carry? Rookie Isaiah Oliver seemed to develop nicely as the season progressed.

Free safety Damontae Kazee was the main bright spot for the Atlanta Falcons secondary. The work Manuel has done with him paid off, as Kazee finished tied for the NFL lead in interceptions. Journeyman Sharrod Neasmanalso played fairly well, after taking the majority of the snaps away from Jordan Richards.

As a whole, the Atlanta Falcons young defensive backs showed themselves to be competent under the tutelage of Marquand Manuel, with the exception of Richards who was acquired from New England at the end of training camp.

The main gripe that the Falcons fans had with the defense this season was the lack of aggressiveness. This defense however, is designed to get pressure from the front four, and not blitz much.

Surprisingly the Falcons blitzed more than they have under Dan Quinn, over the last three games of the season. With the increased aggressiveness and the return of Deion Jones, the defense improved, allowing just 18.7 points per game. And that’s including the final game shootout in Tampa where the defense allowed 32 points.

While it is a fact that the Atlanta Falcons did not scheme well enough to make up for the key injuries, should that all fall on Marquand Manuel? Certainly Dan Quinn being a defensive guru was not just allowing Marquand free reign of the defensive calls without giving his input.

With Quinn grooming Manuel as the defensive coordinator, it’s fair to assume the defense was being called to Quinn’s liking.

Quinn will now call the defense himself so there is no one else to pass the blame to. Hopefully he will keep the aggressiveness of the last three games. However the scheme is most cover 3 zone and cover one man, so schematically things won’t change much.

In the 2019 season with a healthy Deion Jones, Keanu Neal and Ricardo Allen, the defense should bounce back, and Quinn will look like a hero for restoring the defense to prominence. Unfortunately he decided to let Marquand Manuel go to save his own job. In making Manuel the scapegoat, Dan Quinn failed him as a mentor.

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