LouDog Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 They are in need of a backup catcher. Waters, Flowers, and any other prospect they want outside of Pache and Anderson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknøwn Posted July 10, 2019 Author Share Posted July 10, 2019 19 minutes ago, LouDog said: Not willing to give up Pache or Anderson. Who would you be willing to give them? Not sure, I wouldn't trade Pache, Anderson or Waters though. Waters has the potential to easily hit .300 in this league on a yearly basis. Pache, Waters and Acuna is your future OF. I'd offer up Allard in the deal, maybe Muller and Allard would be package. That gives the Pirates their two top 10 prospects and it subtracts from a significant strength of the Braves system. sdogg and youngbloodz 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachore Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 34 minutes ago, LouDog said: Id give them Waters amd Demeritte Demeritte isn't a top prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouDog Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Unkn0wn said: Not sure, I wouldn't trade Pache, Anderson or Waters though. Waters has the potential to easily hit .300 in this league on a yearly basis. Pache, Waters and Acuna is your future OF. I'd offer up Allard in the deal, maybe Muller and Allard would be package. That gives the Pirates their two top 10 prospects and it subtracts from a significant strength of the Braves system. The only reason id be willing to give up Waters is then we can keep Riley in left, Pache in center, Acuna in right, and then either resign Donaldson or make Camargo our starting 3rd baseman. Edited July 10, 2019 by LouDog sdogg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K26dp Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, Unkn0wn said: Not sure, I wouldn't trade Pache, Anderson or Waters though. Waters has the potential to easily hit .300 in this league on a yearly basis. Pache, Waters and Acuna is your future OF. I'd offer up Allard in the deal, maybe Muller and Allard would be package. That gives the Pirates their two top 10 prospects and it subtracts from a significant strength of the Braves system. There is essentially not an offer out there where I would trade Pache, Waters, Anderson, or William Contreras at this point unless it was for a multi-year controlled, game-changing valued talent. For rentals, I'd expand that list to Wright and Wilson. Velazquez is something in between; not a rental, but still just a relief pitcher, albiet an really good one. I'd consider having Wright or Wilson as the centerpiece of a trade, but that doesn't sound like it would be good enough for the Pirates. And quite frankly, I don't know why Pittsburgh would be looking to trade him mid-season anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachore Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 I'm not sure why some people are so willing to just trade Waters but are completely unrelenting on Pache when Waters seems like hes going to be the better player to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachore Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 dp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngbloodz Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 36 minutes ago, Malachore said: I'm not sure why some people are so willing to just trade Waters but are completely unrelenting on Pache when Waters seems like hes going to be the better player to me. Pache has Hall of Fame caliber defensive potential. He would probably be the best defensive centerfielder in the NL if not MLB as soon as he comes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachore Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 2 hours ago, youngbloodz said: Pache has Hall of Fame caliber defensive potential. He would probably be the best defensive centerfielder in the NL if not MLB as soon as he comes up. Bro HOF defense from a guy who hasn't even come here yet is a big assumption. We already have Ender, he gunns have to swing it to justify this hype. If I can only keep 1 it's gunna be Waters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouDog Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 2 hours ago, youngbloodz said: Pache has Hall of Fame caliber defensive potential. He would probably be the best defensive centerfielder in the NL if not MLB as soon as he comes up. Yeah people seem to forget that defense is important. youngbloodz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachore Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, LouDog said: Yeah people seem to forget that defense is important. So is hitting the ball consistently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngbloodz Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 39 minutes ago, Malachore said: Bro HOF defense from a guy who hasn't even come here yet is a big assumption. We already have Ender, he gunns have to swing it to justify this hype. If I can only keep 1 it's gunna be Waters. It's all about traits. He has the traits. Not saying he will be that but the traits says his potential is that. Acuna was a big assumption but he has so far lived up to it. Yadier Molina bat came around. But in the minors he was thought of having hall of Fame defensive potential. I think they were right on that one LouDog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falconsfan567 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Malachore said: Bro HOF defense from a guy who hasn't even come here yet is a big assumption. We already have Ender, he gunns have to swing it to justify this hype. If I can only keep 1 it's gunna be Waters. Chipper said last year that Pache would be in the majors on his defense alone. LouDog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouDog Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Malachore said: So is hitting the ball consistently. True. But you are saying that we can't assume he is going to be a great defensive player because he hasnt even played in the big leagues yet. Then you say Waters will be the more consistent hitter. So we can assume about hitting but not defense? youngbloodz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falconsfan567 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 22 minutes ago, LouDog said: True. But you are saying that we can't assume he is going to be a great defensive player because he hasnt even played in the big leagues yet. Then you say Waters will be the more consistent hitter. So we can assume about hitting but not defense? I think Malachore is making a good point though. It makes no sense to me that folks would claim Pache as untouchable and not put Waters right there beside him as untouchable. They're both either untouchable or both tradeable. I also like Waters as a prospect better than Pache because Waters has shown better offensive skills so far. Lets also not act like Waters is a scrub defensively. While being amazing defensively is awesome and all, we don't need a Braves version of Billy Hamilton. I'm not saying Pache is going to end up being Billy Hamilton, just using that as a point that we'd like to see more offense from Pache in the minors. Malachore 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouDog Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Just now, Falconsfan567 said: I think Malachore is making a good point though. It makes no sense to me that folks would claim Pache as untouchable and not put Waters right there beside him as untouchable. They're both either untouchable or both tradeable. I also like Waters as a prospect better than Pache because Waters has shown better offensive skills so far. Lets also not act like Waters is a scrub defensively. While being amazing defensively is awesome and all, we don't need a Braves version of Billy Hamilton. I'm not saying Pache is going to end up being Billy Hamilton, just using that as a point that we'd like to see more offense from Pache in the minors. I would love to be able to keep both but i think it would take trading one of them to get the help we need. And if i had to chose between the two i would keep Pache. In my opinion they are our top two prospects not including pitchers. I just think we would have to lose one of them to get the deal done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachore Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 49 minutes ago, LouDog said: True. But you are saying that we can't assume he is going to be a great defensive player because he hasnt even played in the big leagues yet. Then you say Waters will be the more consistent hitter. So we can assume about hitting but not defense? No I said saying HOF level defense is a big assumption. We all know he'll play good defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouDog Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Malachore said: No I said saying HOF level defense is a big assumption. We all know he'll play good defense. Its a matter of preference. Chances are they will both be good mlb players. But if i gotta lose one to get the closer we need id rather lose Waters. Just my preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouDog Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 But if we keep them both then our starting eight really could all be from our farm system next year. Waters, Pache, Acuna in the outfield. Move Riley to 3rd. Swanson at SS, Ozzie at 2nd, Freddie at 1st and have BMac split time with Contreras. That would be impressive. youngbloodz and sdogg 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoiceofReason95 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Drew Waters supposedly is just a shade ahead of Ronald Acuna as a center fielder. He can play it, but the preference would be neither play center field full time. Which, as a retrospective, it was said that Acuna had the athletic talent to play in CF while he was young, but he is rough around the edges and not as good at reading the ball as other CF’ers and well…we see that a lot. So, you trade away Ender (which I do believe happens in the offseason), then you decide that Pache is more tradeable and the right deal comes along…then what’s your plan for CF, or do you just decide to go all mashers in the outfield? Trading outfield defense for offense is working this year but I don’t think AA has the stomach to keep doing it. I think it's basically neither available but if the right deal came along, they'd trade Drew Waters first. They absolutely LOVE Pache and I've seen it said several times that they think he can out-WAR Acuna because his defense is that freaking good and he'll have enough offense. LouDog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknøwn Posted July 11, 2019 Author Share Posted July 11, 2019 There was a rumor on twitter the Braves we're talking about Stroman for 2 prospects and Ender. Jon Heyman said that rumor is wrong. Braves and Jays have not spoken yet. Heyman said he was told the rumor was a "total fabrication". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHEC Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 3 hours ago, Unkn0wn said: There was a rumor on twitter the Braves we're talking about Stroman for 2 prospects and Ender. Jon Heyman said that rumor is wrong. Braves and Jays have not spoken yet. Heyman said he was told the rumor was a "total fabrication". Good. Stroman doesn't strike me as a player to take us far into the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falconsfan567 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 12 hours ago, VoiceofReason95 said: Drew Waters supposedly is just a shade ahead of Ronald Acuna as a center fielder. He can play it, but the preference would be neither play center field full time. Which, as a retrospective, it was said that Acuna had the athletic talent to play in CF while he was young, but he is rough around the edges and not as good at reading the ball as other CF’ers and well…we see that a lot. So, you trade away Ender (which I do believe happens in the offseason), then you decide that Pache is more tradeable and the right deal comes along…then what’s your plan for CF, or do you just decide to go all mashers in the outfield? Trading outfield defense for offense is working this year but I don’t think AA has the stomach to keep doing it. I think it's basically neither available but if the right deal came along, they'd trade Drew Waters first. They absolutely LOVE Pache and I've seen it said several times that they think he can out-WAR Acuna because his defense is that freaking good and he'll have enough offense. All players have an adjustment period to learning to playing OF at the MLB level. It's because the ball looks different off the bat in MLB parks than they do in minor league stadiums because of the upper deck. The hardest ball to read is the one hit straight at you, add in the change in backdrop, and it's natural that there's an adjustment period going on right now with Acuna in CF. But he's better there than he is in LF. He's not a bad defensive outfielder. Malachore 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoiceofReason95 Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Falconsfan567 said: All players have an adjustment period to learning to playing OF at the MLB level. It's because the ball looks different off the bat in MLB parks than they do in minor league stadiums because of the upper deck. The hardest ball to read is the one hit straight at you, add in the change in backdrop, and it's natural that there's an adjustment period going on right now with Acuna in CF. But he's better there than he is in LF. He's not a bad defensive outfielder. Those things that I said about Acuna, that was his scouting report as a defender before he got promoted to MLB. He was not considered to be a good all around defensive CF'er, more a guy that could play there due to athleticism and MAYBE if he could figure out how to read the ball better he'd be a good one but reads are something that if you have it you have it but if you don't, it's hard to acquire. And as he fills out, I don't think its going to be long that he can play there so I don't think you can count on just putting him there like Mike Trout. There was someone that said he looks like a young Miggy Cabrera in that he has a lot of room to fill out. Maybe not that bad, but you get the idea. In 3-4 years, he's likely a primary corner OF'er and a guy you can't stand in CF unless it's an emergency. Edited July 11, 2019 by VoiceofReason95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngbloodz Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 6 hours ago, Unkn0wn said: There was a rumor on twitter the Braves we're talking about Stroman for 2 prospects and Ender. Jon Heyman said that rumor is wrong. Braves and Jays have not spoken yet. Heyman said he was told the rumor was a "total fabrication". Now I'm sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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