Trade Rumors

[VoiceofReason95 385]

1 hour ago, Falconsfan567 said:

All players have an adjustment period to learning to playing OF at the MLB level. It's because the ball looks different off the bat in MLB parks than they do in minor league stadiums because of the upper deck. The hardest ball to read is the one hit straight at you, add in the change in backdrop, and it's natural that there's an adjustment period going on right now with Acuna in CF. But he's better there than he is in LF. He's not a bad defensive outfielder.

Those things that I said about Acuna, that was his scouting report as a defender before he got promoted to MLB. He was not considered to be a good all around defensive CF'er, more a guy that could play there due to athleticism and MAYBE if he could figure out how to read the ball better he'd be a good one but reads are something that if you have it you have it but if you don't, it's hard to acquire.

And as he fills out, I don't think its going to be long that he can play there so I don't think you can count on just putting him there like Mike Trout. There was someone that said he looks like a young Miggy Cabrera in that he has a lot of room to fill out. Maybe not that bad, but you get the idea. In 3-4 years, he's likely a primary corner OF'er and a guy you can't stand in CF unless it's an emergency.

Edited July 11, 2019 by VoiceofReason95

[youngbloodz 16,669]

6 hours ago, Unkn0wn said:

There was a rumor on twitter the Braves we're talking about Stroman for 2 prospects and Ender. Jon Heyman said that rumor is wrong. Braves and Jays have not spoken yet. Heyman said he was told the rumor was a "total fabrication".

Now I'm sad 

[K26dp 5,187]

22 hours ago, Malachore said:

Bro HOF defense from a guy who hasn't even come here yet is a big assumption. 

We already have Ender, he gunns have to swing it to justify this hype. If I can only keep 1 it's gunna be Waters.

It's really not an assumption. Unless his body gets all out of whack, he would be a GG contender right now if he was in the majors. 

The good news is that we don't only have to keep one. 

[Falconsfan567 35,212]

I'm sorry that I like this guy better than Christian Pache!! #SorryNotSorry

 

 

[LouDog 4,915]

9 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said:

I'm sorry that I like this guy better than Christian Pache!! #SorryNotSorry

 

 

Nobody is saying Pache is better. Some just value great defense more. To each their own.

[RHEC 4,069]

10 hours ago, Falconsfan567 said:

I'm sorry that I like this guy better than Christian Pache!! #SorryNotSorry

 

 

Dude not a homerun hitter, but he can hit.

[Unknøwn 13,724]

28 minutes ago, Nereek said:

Dude not a homerun hitter, but he can hit.

We have plenty of power already. 

[Falconsfan567 35,212]

2 hours ago, LouDog said:

Nobody is saying Pache is better. Some just value great defense more. To each their own.

Great defense is awesome but only if the guy can hit. Otherwise we've got Bill Hamilton and Ender Inciarte. Defense can only carry you so far without being able to hit. Folks seem to act like Waters is Evan Gattis defensively when that's far from truth. Waters is a very good defensive outfielder AND he can hit. Offense will always be more important to me than defense because defense alone doesn't win you games. You can keep the other team from scoring runs all day long and you will never win if you don't score.

[Falconsfan567 35,212]

1 hour ago, Nereek said:

Dude not a homerun hitter, but he can hit.

He would finally give the Braves a true leadoff type hitter.

[LouDog 4,915]

12 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Great defense is awesome but only if the guy can hit. Otherwise we've got Bill Hamilton and Ender Inciarte. Defense can only carry you so far without being able to hit. Folks seem to act like Waters is Evan Gattis defensively when that's far from truth. Waters is a very good defensive outfielder AND he can hit. Offense will always be more important to me than defense because defense alone doesn't win you games. You can keep the other team from scoring runs all day long and you will never win if you don't score.

And people act like Pache cant hit. He has an average of .294 this year.  I think defense is more likely to translate to the next level than hitting is. There are plenty of players that were great hitters in the minors but never figured it out in the big leagues. Not as common with defense. Plus its not like we wouldnt score runs if Pache was a .260 hitter when he got here. We would still score because our team is so stacked. I bet his defense would save a few runs regardless of what his hitting does.

 

Edited July 12, 2019 by LouDog

[Falconsfan567 35,212]

Just now, LouDog said:

And people act like Pache cant hit. He has an average of .294 this year. . Think defense is more likely to translate to the next level than hitting is. There are plenty of players that were great hitters in the minors but never figured it out in the big leagues. Not as common with defense.

Folks here act like it's a crime to like Drew Waters more than Christian Pache and if we had to trade one it be Pache.

[LouDog 4,915]

2 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said:

Folks here act like it's a crime to like Drew Waters more than Christian Pache and if we had to trade one it be Pache.

Havent seen anyone acting like that. People have their own preferences. 

Edited July 12, 2019 by LouDog

[Falconsfan567 35,212]

1 minute ago, LouDog said:

Havent seen anyone acting like that. People have their own preferences. 

Yeah, and I don't want another Ender Inciarte!! He's one of the most frustrating players in baseball to watch. There's pitchers that are better hitters than Ender.

[LouDog 4,915]

Just now, Falconsfan567 said:

Yeah, and I don't want another Ender Inciarte!! He's one of the most frustrating players in baseball to watch. There's pitchers that are better hitters than Ender.

But you are just assuming that is what he will be. 

[LouDog 4,915]

Pache's stats are very similar to what Albies did in the minors as far as average goes. Waters are very similar to Rileys. Yet Rileys average continues to drop and albies has been a very consistent hitter. Hard to say what someone will do offensively once they reach the big leagues just based on minor league numbers alone.

[Unknøwn 13,724]

20 minutes ago, Falconsfan567 said:

He would finally give the Braves a true leadoff type hitter.

I was going to say that but you can really slide Acuna down? The guy is so electric there. Maybe in the 2 hole.

[RHEC 4,069]

1 hour ago, Unkn0wn said:

We have plenty of power already. 

Can never have too much power.

[Unknøwn 13,724]

1 minute ago, Nereek said:

Can never have too much power.

You need to be able to string together hits at times. Relying only on the HR will not get you far.

[ATLBrave 3,620]

Waters could easily get himself up to 18-20 HRs a year when it’s all said and done. He’s still only 20 years old. 

[VoiceofReason95 385]

1 hour ago, LouDog said:

Pache's stats are very similar to what Albies did in the minors as far as average goes. Waters are very similar to Rileys. Yet Rileys average continues to drop and albies has been a very consistent hitter. Hard to say what someone will do offensively once they reach the big leagues just based on minor league numbers alone.

Um yeah, except that’s not really the case:

A Ball:

Albies: .310/.368/.404
8.2% BB 12.8% K

Pache: .281/.335/.343
7.6% BB 20.2% K

AA ball:

Albies: .321/.391/.467 (and had stretches where he was around .400 with several PAs, it was crazy to see in retrospective)
8.9% BB 15.4% K

Pache: .294/.355/.518 (2019, in 2018, a .260/.294/.337 slash)
7.8% BB 22.8% K

Even if you include rookie ball, Albies had him beat in just pure hitting at every step of the way up to 2017 (where he was in AAA, which we can’t comp now). He had low K rates too and because of that he was incredibly safe (like, at the very least he was going to be a utility player). The only thing that wasn’t really there for Albies was power (which started to flash in 2016), but A ball Albies even had Pache beaten in that because his swing wasn’t a weird case like Pache was (like, people thought that Pache had power, but his swing was very messed up, and it meant he was hitting hard grounders instead of getting the ball in the air, Acuna was like that before 2017, but it was not as bad of a case as Pache).

Albies was the best pure bat to ball guy in the system since Freddie, just with less power. He was that good of a hitting prospect.

Waters has Riley beaten in bat to ball at just about every step of the way too (except the GCL), but I really don't think there's a Brave comp that is optimistic is given the BABIPs and K rate today (there is an optimistic comp, just not a Brave one). The optimistic comp is Yelich before the power boom I think and the worry is that he could be Schafer.

[Malachore 9,627]

1 hour ago, LouDog said:

And people act like Pache cant hit. He has an average of .294 this year.  I think defense is more likely to translate to the next level than hitting is. There are plenty of players that were great hitters in the minors but never figured it out in the big leagues. Not as common with defense. Plus its not like we wouldnt score runs if Pache was a .260 hitter when he got here. We would still score because our team is so stacked. I bet his defense would save a few runs regardless of what his hitting does.

 

We already have that here and people are glad he's not starting if he comes back.

[VoiceofReason95 385]

I don’t think Ender ever was a similar case to Pache though in that he had power that he needed to unlock with a swing change. Like Pache definitely looked like a future Ender before this year (really before 2018 as the power began to flash but was inconsistent, although Florida also sucks for hitting period and he was solid there considering that), but here’s your age 20 comps (which is Pache this year):

Ender: .262/.333/.333 in A ball
Pache: .294/355/.518 in AA ball

And for a comp with Ender in the same league, but older, he went .281/.327/.362.

Ender realistically didn’t look like a prospect much at all (and wasn't considered as much of one while people loved Pache because he had loud tools he needed to just tap into) and looking in retrospective at mlb.com and Sickels’ old website, although I’m not a big fan of mlbpipeline, he wasn’t really thought of highly by them, for example (he’s not even listed in “Others” on that website).

I think Buxton is the better low comp on him, and that even looks OK because the Twins used to have terrible coaching for young players. The high comp is him peaking with years of Cain or Gomez like offense, except maybe with more of the home run ball, which I wouldn’t be surprised if it did take a little extra time for him to get there.

Edited July 12, 2019 by VoiceofReason95

[tl;dr 9,993]

2 hours ago, Unkn0wn said:

I was going to say that but you can really slide Acuna down? The guy is so electric there. Maybe in the 2 hole.

And then you ask the question about Dansby too. I like what he has done in the 2 hole. 

In 228 AB's this year, he is hitting .276. We have finally found a place for him in the lineup. If he moves, just keep him out of the 6 hole, because that hasn't gone well thus far. 

[Unknøwn 13,724]

5 minutes ago, tl;dr said:

And then you ask the question about Dansby too. I like what he has done in the 2 hole. 

In 228 AB's this year, he is hitting .276. We have finally found a place for him in the lineup. If he moves, just keep him out of the 6 hole, because that hasn't gone well thus far. 

Yeah, I actually wouldnt be opposed to Waters just sliding right into 5/6 to replace Markakis. Waters provides impact by hitting the gaps. He had 29 2Bs and 9 3Bs at the AA break. 

[Malachore 9,627]

1 hour ago, Unkn0wn said:

Yeah, I actually wouldnt be opposed to Waters just sliding right into 5/6 to replace Markakis. Waters provides impact by hitting the gaps. He had 29 2Bs and 9 3Bs at the AA break. 

Do it now, Nick is the worst everyday player on this team.

Not totally serious but I'll be glad when he's finally gone.