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Let's take a look at our DL, shall we?


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2 minutes ago, MD-FalconFan13 said:

You're using theory. Based on metrics, there aren't many worse D-Lines in the league.

Adding Davison, a 30 year old Clayborn, a guy that hasn't played in 3 years in Hageman and Cominsky wont change that. 

You're letting last years performance cloud your judgement. 2018 was an aberration as far as I am concerned. Takk started the year injured, Grady missed games, Terrell McClain was a huge disappointment (predictably on my part) and Debo/Neal/Rico being out affected every level of this defense.  

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1 hour ago, vafalconfan said:

I was hoping we would pick a real run stopper in the draft which we did not, but the real positive in all of this is Dan Quinn taking over as DC. What was missing last year even before the injuries was fire and urgency. Those things will return this year I believe. DQ is going to simplify things and we're going to see a unit firing off the ball and playing with attitude.

Quinn was our Head Coach last year, yes? 

So if he couldn’t breathe some “fire and urgency” into DL as the HC, Why do so many in here expect that to happen as the DC? 

More than anything, Defense needs to stay healthy. And Beasley and Takk need to figure out how to play up to their 1st round draft status.

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I have a real question:

Why should the Falcons commit to anybody on the DL for more than 2019? 

As of now, it's not a good collective unit. Grady is good. That's pretty much it. Crawford is probably a maxed out player. Clayborn is as well. Those are your next best players with limited left in the tank. Vic is terrible. Takk hasn't taken another step yet. Senat is young. Cominsky is a rookie. Hageman is very unknown. 

They've done the smart thing by positioning themselves with the leverage to reshape this DL next year instead of holding on and continuing to hope for improvement. If they don't improve next year, you can literally dump everybody except Grady, Takk, Senat, and Cominsky and build a brand new DL. 

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Quiin's seahawks won a super bowl with a collection of undersized DLinemen. Looks like the same plan of attack this year. Looks like Senat, Hageman & Davidson on run downs, Grady, Clayborn & Crawford on passing downs.

Should be enough talent to rotate them so that the interior pass rushers are fresh for the 4th quarter. If they can get 7-8 sacks from Takk and Beasely, may work well enough to complement the offense. Got to have a killer year on offense.

Not sure why having players on one year contracts affects 2019.

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33 minutes ago, Smiler11 said:

You're letting last years performance cloud your judgement. 2018 was an aberration as far as I am concerned. Takk started the year injured, Grady missed games, Terrell McClain was a huge disappointment (predictably on my part) and Debo/Neal/Rico being out affected every level of this defense.  

Completely agree that injuries hurt us. We struggled mightily with our back ups. But that said, even at our very best we struggled to stop the run and short passes. In 2017 we had a top 10 defense (our highest rated in years) that struggled to stop their short to intermediate passing game off their RPO.

Granted our defense made plays and probably performed better against Philly than any other defense in the post season that year, but we fell just short of even at our best. Now with several players coming off season ending injury, a sophmore and rookie starting or at key backup roles at CB and what looks like a worse D-Line on paper without Poe, I'm just not sure if we have enough horses on the defensive end. 

On offense if our pieces come together I like our chances to be a top 5 unit. But my biggest concern is running into a high powered offense (we have quite a few on our schedule) and having to win shoot-outs. But hey, I believe we have the horses on the offensive side to win a shoot-out with anyone. 

We will see. 

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47 minutes ago, Smiler11 said:

You're letting last years performance cloud your judgement. 2018 was an aberration as far as I am concerned. Takk started the year injured, Grady missed games, Terrell McClain was a huge disappointment (predictably on my part) and Debo/Neal/Rico being out affected every level of this defense.  

Did our DL get injuried too? Cause I could have sworn I saw all those guys out there.

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1 hour ago, GleasonForever! said:

I just have an issue with most of the D line on contract years. Like this next offseason will be telling. 

Beasley 

Grady

Davidson

Clayborn

Crawford

Hageman

Means

Bennett 

ARE ALL ON THEIR LAST YEAR OF CONTRACT. 

what exactly are we doing here? Not to mention we have to find some type of way to sign D.Jones and Neal. I know most likely Grady or Beasley if not both will be extended however at this time they are not and that’s all I can go on. 

Wouldn't shock me next year to see a same type of draft day move (two first rounders) for Defensive players next season. 

This is what you do if you are playing to save your job - not preparing for the future and not really acknowledging the very real problems you have on this DL.

You go with people who "know your system" in hopes you can somehow find a formula to eke out better results and keep things going.  What other explanation for extending Beasley?

Meanwhile, posters on this board are guaranteeing a top ten defense that inevitably leads to a Super Bowl win... 

 

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1 minute ago, falconidae said:

Quiin's seahawks won a super bowl with a collection of undersized DLinemen. Looks like the same plan of attack this year. Looks like Senat, Hageman & Davidson on run downs, Grady, Clayborn & Crawford on passing downs.

Should be enough talent to rotate them so that the interior pass rushers are fresh for the 4th quarter. If they can get 7-8 sacks from Takk and Beasely, may work well enough to complement the offense. Got to have a killer year on offense.

Not sure why having players on one year contracts affects 2019.

Hoping Takk steps up and fills one of the Cliff Avril/Michael Bennett roles here. 

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18 minutes ago, vel said:

I have a real question:

Why should the Falcons commit to anybody on the DL for more than 2019? 

As of now, it's not a good collective unit. Grady is good. That's pretty much it. Crawford is probably a maxed out player. Clayborn is as well. Those are your next best players with limited left in the tank. Vic is terrible. Takk hasn't taken another step yet. Senat is young. Cominsky is a rookie. Hageman is very unknown. 

They've done the smart thing by positioning themselves with the leverage to reshape this DL next year instead of holding on and continuing to hope for improvement. If they don't improve next year, you can literally dump everybody except Grady, Takk, Senat, and Cominsky and build a brand new DL. 

Add another name to the cut list if they don't have marked improvement on the DL this year - Dan Quinn (and honestly, he is positioned to fail with what he has to work with).

Then, when it is revealed that turning over an entire DL in an offseason isn't possible, you can add Dimitroff to the list. 

We just participated in one of the deepest DL drafts in recent memory, and we end up with John Cominsky - I hope he's great, but that's all we got??

 

Edited by Tmodel66
clarification
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8 minutes ago, Tmodel66 said:

This is what you do if you are playing to save your job - not preparing for the future and not really acknowledging the very real problems you have on this DL.

You go with people who "know your system" in hopes you can somehow find a formula to eke out better results and keep things going.  What other explanation for extending Beasley?

Meanwhile, posters on this board are guaranteeing a top ten defense that inevitably leads to a Super Bowl win... 

 

 

1 minute ago, Tmodel66 said:

Add another name to the cut list if they don't have marked improvement on the DL this year - Dan Quinn (and honestly, he is positioned to fail with what he has to work with).

Then, when it is revealed that turning over an entire DL in an offseason isn't possible, you can add Dimitroff to the list. 

I've been saying this since the end of last football season. Alot of people on here was smoking pixy dust and thinking I was crazy. 

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2 hours ago, Flying Falcon said:

And for you stat lovers, here are some stats for your @.....

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

 

 

That's one instance where "stats" don't lie. Our D was atrocious last season. Losing Keanu, Debo and Rico caused that whole unit to collapse like a house of cards. This season should be better. It could be way, way better if players like Beasley, Shede, Takk, Senat, Davison, Oliver, etc. step up their game. 

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21 minutes ago, falconidae said:

Quiin's seahawks won a super bowl with a collection of undersized DLinemen. Looks like the same plan of attack this year. Looks like Senat, Hageman & Davidson on run downs, Grady, Clayborn & Crawford on passing downs.

Should be enough talent to rotate them so that the interior pass rushers are fresh for the 4th quarter. If they can get 7-8 sacks from Takk and Beasely, may work well enough to complement the offense. Got to have a killer year on offense.

Not sure why having players on one year contracts affects 2019.

That defense was all about forcing turnovers. It's how the 2016 D got this team to the super bowl. Get back to forcing turnovers and stay healthy.

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1 hour ago, Vandy said:

Quinn was our Head Coach last year, yes? 

So if he couldn’t breathe some “fire and urgency” into DL as the HC, Why do so many in here expect that to happen as the DC? 

More than anything, Defense needs to stay healthy. And Beasley and Takk need to figure out how to play up to their 1st round draft status.

Was there a noticeable difference in our D the first or second half of 2016 when Quinn took it over? 

I agree with the last two sentences  

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3 hours ago, Jesus said:

Why do so many people act like Crawford isn't on the team?

Crawford: 16 games 1 int 1 PD 6 sacks 35 tackles 7 TFL 9 QB hits
Jarrett: 14 games 6 sacks 52 tackles 8 TFL 16 QB hits

That's a pretty good interior line. One makes 15 million the other makes 2.5.

I don't know, Crawford is borderline stud

Edited by ATLSlobberKnockers
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6 minutes ago, notthatcool said:

Was there a noticeable difference in our D the first or second half of 2016 when Quinn took it over? 

I agree with the last two sentences  

Yes there was, and then it all just disappeared since. 

Quinn should be a better in game scheme- adjustment DC than Manuel was. My push-back was the “fire and urgency” portion of post, that’s a big part of the head coach’s ******* job. 

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30 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Yes there was, and then it all just disappeared since. 

Quinn should be a better in game scheme- adjustment DC than Manuel was. My push-back was the “fire and urgency” portion of post, that’s a big part of the head coach’s ******* job. 

Don't disagree.  Quinn being a former assistant wants to give his OC and DC the ability to do their job.  Carroll showed him that respect as a DC and I think he tries here in ATL to give the OC and DC that same type respect.  In 2016 he had to step-in and after last year he felt that way again.  I'm excited about it, he's one of the best DC in country. 

On a side note I also think that is why he didn't "step-in" in Shanny's second half SB play calling. 

Edited by notthatcool
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Takk wil be a 10+ sack guy this year.

Beasley and Grady will be between 5-8 each. 

Crawford had 6 last year but I can't see another year with that many. Crawford, Clay, and the slew of other backups combine for 10-15.

Worst case 30 sacks from the D-Line. Best Case 40. Then you have a few sprinkled in sacks from our LBs and DBs.

Run defense will live and die based off Senat/Davison. We know what we have in the other guys. We need one or both of them to give us similar levels as Poe did in 2017.

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2 hours ago, Vandy said:

Quinn was our Head Coach last year, yes? 

So if he couldn’t breathe some “fire and urgency” into DL as the HC, Why do so many in here expect that to happen as the DC? 

More than anything, Defense needs to stay healthy. And Beasley and Takk need to figure out how to play up to their 1st round draft status.

Here's to hoping play calling and healthy players make a difference.  If not its a wrap soon for quinn. I hate to see him go because we are so close and i hate starting over.

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59 minutes ago, notthatcool said:

Don't disagree.  Quinn being a former assistant wants to give his OC and DC the ability to do their job.  Carroll showed him that respect as a DC and I think he tries here in ATL to give the OC and DC that same type respect.  In 2016 he had to step-in and after last year he felt that way again.  I'm excited about it, he's one of the best DC in country. 

On a side note I also think that is why he didn't "step-in" in Shanny's second half SB play calling. 

Could be.

But IMO You’re never going to win it all being a passive HC in that way. 

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8 minutes ago, PriMeTiiMe said:

Takk wil be a 10+ sack guy this year.

Beasley and Grady will be between 5-8 each. 

Crawford had 6 last year but I can't see another year with that many. Crawford, Clay, and the slew of other backups combine for 10-15.

Worst case 30 sacks from the D-Line. Best Case 40. Then you have a few sprinkled in sacks from our LBs and DBs.

Run defense will live and die based off Senat/Davison. We know what we have in the other guys. We need one or both of them to give us similar levels as Poe did in 2017.

Your projections may very well be correct, but I don't how this creates the big bounce so many are predicting.

Takk had 7 sacks last year.  Let's say you are right, and he gets three more.  

The team had 37 sacks last year.  BTW, Poole had three of those. 

So, your projections only make us the same as we were last year, which is probably about how we will actually perform because we haven't upgraded our poor defensive line.  

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3 hours ago, Smiler11 said:

A top 5 DT in the league, 3 former 1st round picks at DE (all with at least moderate production in the last few years), one of the better rotational interior pass rushers in the league (Crawford), a pretty good run stopper (Davison) and some intriguing mid round developmental guys who could be anything (Senat, Hageman & Cominsky). 

I'd love another edge rusher (or 2) but there are plenty of worse lines in the league.

Smiller,

I am with you.  We were ran on and bullied up front last year.  We have gotten bigger and stronger this year.  Hageman and Davison are going to change us from soft, to tough, in one year.  Who knows what we will get from Cominsky, but at least he is on the bigger side.  

I am excited to see what Quinn does this year.  I love the rumors of him trying Takk as an occasional LB and trying creative ways to pressure the QB.  

We may have mostly same players, but this will be a totally different D from 2017.  

 

Edited by duckhoa
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26 minutes ago, Tmodel66 said:

Your projections may very well be correct, but I don't how this creates the big bounce so many are predicting.

Takk had 7 sacks last year.  Let's say you are right, and he gets three more.  

The team had 37 sacks last year.  BTW, Poole had three of those. 

So, your projections only make us the same as we were last year, which is probably about how we will actually perform because we haven't upgraded our poor defensive line.  

Playing defense is more about mentally setting a tone of momentum. Losing our two biggest tone setters, Neal and Jones, last year hurt everything defensively. 

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