Ovie_Lover

Let's clear up something about the draft.

142 posts in this topic

38 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Keanu Neal was overdrafted as well per the pundits

Deion Jones was overdrafted.

be careful with that "overdrafted" lingo.

Not to me they weren’t. I was one of few ecstatic with both those picks. 

And I didn’t say anything about any pundits. Just stating my opinions based on my limited knowledge.

For whatever it’s worth, I also liked Lindstrom for us long before most peeps in here ever even heard of him. Just not at 14 before addressing defense.

Fact is, most pundits liked the Lindstrom pick. Which should make the hair stick up on back of all our necks a little. :)

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5 hours ago, g-dawg said:

I will grant you this - and if you could inject truth serum in Dimitroff's veins he would probably say the same - Falcons probably would have been better off only signing ONE of Carpenter/Brown instead of both.

My GUESS would be that Falcons planned on taking an OT in the draft early and not a guard - then when they worked out and studied Lindstrom more they decided that they really, really wanted him.   When they re-signed Sambrailo for RT and signed Carpenter/Brown for LG/RG - they probably weren't planning on taking a guard in Day #1 or Day #2.

 

Good post.  And I completely agree.  Our FA and draft just didn’t seem to make total sense when looked at as a whole.  And I do like the players.  But the Brown money could have been useful in FA if they intended to go OL with first two picks.

i suspect Kaleb was always the target at #45 and Lindstrom was option 3 or 4 at 14th.  It’s the only explanation

 

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2 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Good post.  And I completely agree.  Our FA and draft just didn’t seem to make total sense when looked at as a whole.  And I do like the players.  But the Brown money could have been useful in FA if they intended to go OL with first two picks.

i suspect Kaleb was always the target at #45 and Lindstrom was option 3 or 4 at 14th.  It’s the only explanation

 

Don’t see it quite the same way as you.   While probably true that Falcons greatest desires was probably Quinnen, Oliver and Wilkins - no one really thought the first two would drop so don’t really see Lindstrom as a #3 or #4 option in that regard.   At worst, he was #2 realistic target behind Wilkins.

I just think they realized later in scouting process how much they liked Lindstrom and the draft strategy shifted when they realized  Oliver/Wilkins might not fall to them.

Let’s be real about Carpenter and Brown - especially Carpenter- those guys are more likely stop gaps than long term solutions.  Maybe Brown can be long term solution but I doubt it.

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11 hours ago, Vandy said:

Not to me they weren’t. I was one of few ecstatic with both those picks. 

And I didn’t say anything about any pundits. Just stating my opinions based on my limited knowledge.

For whatever it’s worth, I also liked Lindstrom for us long before most peeps in here ever even heard of him. Just not at 14 before addressing defense.

Fact is, most pundits liked the Lindstrom pick. Which should make the hair stick up on back of all our necks a little. :)

I liked both the Keanu And CL picks for us way before they happened. Both aren't over drafted and neither was celebrated by pundits. They are underrated serious 1st round talents. CL is the best G to come out since Quentin, he is in the same ball park and he can move people. 

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9 minutes ago, Osiruz said:

I liked both the Keanu And CL picks for us way before they happened. Both aren't over drafted and neither was celebrated by pundits. They are underrated serious 1st round talents. CL is the best G to come out since Quentin, he is in the same ball park and he can move people. 

Not being a jerk, but Nelson came out last year...lol.  But I get your point. Nelson is far more of a mauler but Lindstrom can become a Pro Bowl caliber OG

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8 hours ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Not being a jerk, but Nelson came out last year...lol.  But I get your point. Nelson is far more of a mauler but Lindstrom can become a Pro Bowl caliber OG

True lol but Nelson was the best guard to come out for a long while, I would say the same about CL he's going to be a good one. 

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2 minutes ago, Osiruz said:

True lol but Nelson was the best guard to come out for a long while, I would say the same about CL he's going to be a good one. 

Brandon Scherff is pretty dayum good as well and went in Top 10.  Zach Martin was a beast as well.

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19 minutes ago, Osiruz said:

True lol but Nelson was the best guard to come out for a long while, I would say the same about CL he's going to be a good one. 

Nelson looks like ram rod from He man

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12 hours ago, g-dawg said:

Don’t see it quite the same way as you.   While probably true that Falcons greatest desires was probably Quinnen, Oliver and Wilkins - no one really thought the first two would drop so don’t really see Lindstrom as a #3 or #4 option in that regard.   At worst, he was #2 realistic target behind Wilkins.

I just think they realized later in scouting process how much they liked Lindstrom and the draft strategy shifted when they realized  Oliver/Wilkins might not fall to them.

Let’s be real about Carpenter and Brown - especially Carpenter- those guys are more likely stop gaps than long term solutions.  Maybe Brown can be long term solution but I doubt it.

so they either had to think of their feet quickly, or had a contingency plan when wilkins wasnt available.  ill say that td and co had a plan. 

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20 hours ago, g-dawg said:

Keanu Neal was overdrafted as well per the pundits

Deion Jones was overdrafted.

be careful with that "overdrafted" lingo.

Sam Baker, Duke Riley and Jalen Collins were overdrafted too. Sometimes it is exactly what it looks like.

Also the entire strategy is questionable. Look like we are just really gung ho on building a solid O-Line. Which is a good thing. However our approach is throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and see what sticks. That's what I'm concerned about. I like the idea of building the O-Line, but the overuse of resources to do it was a little concerning. 

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2 hours ago, VTCrunkler said:

so they either had to think of their feet quickly, or had a contingency plan when wilkins wasnt available.  ill say that td and co had a plan. 

made another thread to answer your question here w/ my thoughts:

 

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13 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

made another thread to answer your question here w/ my thoughts:

 

thanks.  

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On 5/28/2019 at 1:55 PM, Falconsin2012 said:

...

But my main issue is we will have spent 15 million of CAP on backup OL who ideally don’t play much at all.  8 of that 15 million would have been helpful for an otherwise thin defense

But they didn't. Brown and the draft picks are starters, leaves Ty at 3.2, Carpenter at 2.9  and Wes at 2 mil. That's 8.1 mil, with Wes an easy cut this year and Ty next year.

So, assuming Wes is gone[33,000 dead money], that's 6 mil in back up salary.

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8 minutes ago, falconidae said:

But they didn't. Brown and the draft picks are starters, leaves Ty at 3.2, Carpenter at 2.9  and Wes at 2 mil. That's 8.1 mil, with Wes an easy cut this year and Ty next year.

So, assuming Wes is gone[33,000 dead money], that's 6 mil in back up salary.

Our OL spending is currently around 52 million.

Starters:

Mack: 11 mill

Matthews: 11 mill

Carpenter: 2.5 mill

Lindstrom: 2.8 mill

Kaleb: 1.8 mill

Total Starters: 30 million

Reserves: 22 million

Less Schraeder: 7 milll

Actual Reserves: 15 million

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18 minutes ago, falconidae said:

But they didn't. Brown and the draft picks are starters, leaves Ty at 3.2, Carpenter at 2.9  and Wes at 2 mil. That's 8.1 mil, with Wes an easy cut this year and Ty next year.

So, assuming Wes is gone[33,000 dead money], that's 6 mil in back up salary.

Brown average salary is $6.25M, Carpenter’s $5.25M a year, Ty $4.75M.

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2 minutes ago, Vandy said:

Brown average salary is $6.25M, Carpenter’s $5.25M a year

One of them will start., so they didn't spend that much on back ups.

And, the cap hit for this year for the back ups is 6 mil, assuming that Wes is cut.

Ty will be gone next year, Carpenter the year after. They could cut Carpenter as a June 1 cut next year with only a 2.75 cap hit.

Falcons had to replace 3 of 5 starters on the Oline, plus add quality depth. Not sure they could do that any cheaper, really.

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4 minutes ago, falconidae said:

One of them will start., so they didn't spend that much on back ups.

And, the cap hit for this year for the back ups is 6 mil, assuming that Wes is cut.

Ty will be gone next year, Carpenter the year after. They could cut Carpenter as a June 1 cut next year with only a 2.75 cap hit.

Falcons had to replace 3 of 5 starters on the Oline, plus add quality depth. Not sure they could do that any cheaper, really.

My only issue was (if drafting a OG at 14) was signing two instead of one FA OG. As 2012 alluded, We needed that other $5-6M spent on defense this offseason.

Now after everything’s played out, it Looks likes pretty dumb cap management to me. 

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14 minutes ago, falconidae said:

One of them will start., so they didn't spend that much on back ups.

And, the cap hit for this year for the back ups is 6 mil, assuming that Wes is cut.

Ty will be gone next year, Carpenter the year after. They could cut Carpenter as a June 1 cut next year with only a 2.75 cap hit.

Falcons had to replace 3 of 5 starters on the Oline, plus add quality depth. Not sure they could do that any cheaper, really.

I just told you the CAP hit is 15 million.  And if Wes was going to be cut they would have done so already to use his money in FA

 

Starters:

Mack: 11 mill

Matthews: 11 mill

Carpenter: 2.5 mill

Lindstrom: 2.8 mill

Kaleb: 1.8 mill

Total Starters: 30 million

Reserves: 22 million

Less Schraeder: 7 milll

Actual Reserves: 15 million

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11 minutes ago, Vandy said:

My only issue was (if drafting a OG at 14) was signing two instead of one FA OG. As 2012 alluded, We needed that other $5-6M spent on defense this offseason.

Now after everything’s played out, it Looks likes pretty dumb cap management to me. 

No way to know that Lindstrum would be there at 14, or that they could trade up for McGary before the draft. 

And the cap hit for back ups is only 6 mil this year [I expect Wes to be cut], not worried about future cap hits, cause many of them won't happen.

Assuming that fixing the Oline was the number priority, not sure what else they could have done. They're replacing 3 starters and 3 back ups.

Looks like next year is set up for fixing the Dline like this year was for the Oline.

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2 minutes ago, falconidae said:

No way to know that Lindstrum would be there at 14, or that they could trade up for McGary before the draft. 

And the cap hit for back ups is only 6 mil this year [I expect Wes to be cut], not worried about future cap hits, cause many of them won't happen.

Assuming that fixing the Oline was the number priority, not sure what else they could have done. They're replacing 3 starters and 3 back ups.

Looks like next year is set up for fixing the Dline like this year was for the Oline.

If Wes is cut then it drops our reserve OL CAP number to 12 million.  But Wes won’t be cut IMO

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18 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

I just told you the CAP hit is 15 million.  And if Wes was going to be cut they would have done so already to use his money in FA

 

Starters:

Mack: 11 mill

Matthews: 11 mill

Carpenter: 2.5 mill

Lindstrom: 2.8 mill

Kaleb: 1.8 mill

Total Starters: 30 million

Reserves: 22 million

Less Schraeder: 7 milll

Actual Reserves: 15 million

You put Carpenter instead of Brown as a starter to make the numbers look worse. Think it's obvious they expect Brown to start. And, they may not have cut Wes because they wanted to see how the draft shook out.

Actual reserves cap hits for this year:

Carpenter: 2.9

Ty 3.25

Wes 2

Gono .5 mil

Wetzel  .7 

That 9.35 mil, that's not 15 mil, swap Brown for Carpenter, it's still only 10.75. I'm looking at OTC. If I missed something, please point it out to me, don't see 15 mil.

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58 minutes ago, falconidae said:

No way to know that Lindstrum would be there at 14, or that they could trade up for McGary before the draft. 

And the cap hit for back ups is only 6 mil this year [I expect Wes to be cut], not worried about future cap hits, cause many of them won't happen.

Assuming that fixing the Oline was the number priority, not sure what else they could have done. They're replacing 3 starters and 3 back ups.

Looks like next year is set up for fixing the Dline like this year was for the Oline.

Scenario planning.

I just disagree with the all-in-or nothing approach of fixing OG mentality. Of course, I’m also one of the few here who didn’t think Wes was so terrible.

Anyway, like I said earlier, it looks dumb, especially coming off a bottom 5 season defensively. 

Hope TD/Quinn et al end up making me look like the dummy. :ninja:

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