Yo_Lover

Let's clear up something about the draft.

142 posts in this topic

16 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

the defense was down THREE crucial starters - two pro-bowl caliber and the third was the QB of the secondary and team leader.   While Rico isn't an all-star physically - he had a lot of responsibility in the defense making sure coverages were right and assignments and lining up players pre-snap.   To not acknowledge when talking about our "poor defense" last year - it's just not good analysis. if we added ZERO players in the draft defensively, we would have been better this year with those three players healthy and someone playing at least as good as Rocky Alford, who is being replaced because of his salary and poor play.

As to the offense, it was good passing but we were so very imbalanced and Matt took way too many hits.  When Matt goes down, if he goes down - our season is toast.   We won't win 6 games if Matt went down in the first game.   The offensive line had two major investments in the last 12 years - and it just so happens those are the only two good players we had on the offensive line.

Yes, were down 3 players.  But ask yourself, how many injuries can our 2019 OG’s  alone effectively deal with?  2 is the answer.  An injury to Takk or Vic, Tru or Oliver, and it’s game over for the defense.

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7 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

They were down 3 players.  But ask yourself, how many injuries can our 2019 OG’s  alone effectively deal with?  2 is the answer.  An injury to Takk or Vic, and it’s game over for the defense.

I disagree.   if we lost both it would be a huge problem but not necessarily if we lost one of them.  Takk is the more crucial player of the two as he is more consistent. With Grady back and a healthy Jack Crawford, we would be fine.   DeVondre Campbell also could have some untapped ability.   Most teams don't have 3rd and 4th passrushers that are dynamic either.

As to secondary, we have Kazee w/ game experience.   

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18 minutes ago, JayOzOne said:

I wasn't addressing you. At least not specifically or because of anything that you've said here. But in spite of having a lot of yards, we were predictable last year. Ryan was put in position to pass and a QB in his mid-30s is not going to survive long by being sacked 42 times. And we have a 100 million guaranteed reasons to make sure he survives. So I'll disagree with your contention that we had a highly effective offense last year. If total yards are all that you're considering, then you have a point. But if getting those yards when you need them is what matters, then our efficiency was nowhere close to where it needed to be.

If our offensive line can cut those sacks in half and open up running lanes for another 25 yards per game, then we'll have a top 10 defense almost by default. You're entitled to your opinion though.

I’d argue we were throwing so often  because the defense put us in a position to have to throw to catch up.  That made us predictable and easy to to get after.  By fixing the defensive depth we in turn help the OL

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1 minute ago, g-dawg said:

I disagree.   if we lost both it would be a huge problem but not necessarily if we lost one of them.  Takk is the more crucial player of the two as he is more consistent. With Grady back and a healthy Jack Crawford, we would be fine.   DeVondre Campbell also could have some untapped ability.   Most teams don't have 3rd and 4th passrushers that are dynamic either.

Brown & Wes could help lead a very good offense.  Can the same be said at backup DE or boundary corner?

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1 minute ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Brown & Wes could help lead a very good offense.  Can the same be said at backup DE or boundary corner?

Wes Schweitzer is garbage.  We drafted TWO CORNERS - why are you even complaining about corner?  we drafted one early last year and two this year to go along with Tru and Kazee.  We are actually deep at corner with young talent w/ upside.

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4 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

I disagree.   if we lost both it would be a huge problem but not necessarily if we lost one of them.  Takk is the more crucial player of the two as he is more consistent. With Grady back and a healthy Jack Crawford, we would be fine.   DeVondre Campbell also could have some untapped ability.   Most teams don't have 3rd and 4th passrushers that are dynamic either.

As to secondary, we have Kazee w/ game experience.   

The effectiveness of our D-line will be heavily dependent upon how well the secondary plays. And how Quinn adjusts schemes from game-to-game. We really need Neal and Rico to return to form and Oliver to prove he's capable of manning his side of the field.

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Just now, JayOzOne said:

The effectiveness of our D-line will be heavily dependent upon how well the secondary plays. And how Quinn adjusts schemes from game-to-game. We really need Neal and Rico to return to form and Oliver to prove he's capable of manning his side of the field.

yeah,  the hugest impact is getting BOTH starting safeties back and our best defender in Deion Jones for whole year(knock on wood) - very big deal.   Next, I believe we upgraded DCs going from Manuel to Quinn.   We did add some depth to the DL in Davison and Clayborn - not game-changers but rotational depth.  Not going to count on guys like Cominsky, Sheffield nor Miller this year but all have very nice upside - probably won't contribute much this year but stranger things have happened.    

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The only good thing about the way last season played out is that we lost Debo, Neal and Rico in quick order so it wasn't a tortured and late collapse. It blew my mind how quickly it fell apart. My hopes went from sky high to almost non-existent within the course of three weeks. It was the first loss to the last second losses to the Stains and the Bungles in the Dome that convinced me to abandon all hope. At least we have tested depth now.

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24 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Wes Schweitzer is garbage.  We drafted TWO CORNERS - why are you even complaining about corner?  we drafted one early last year and two this year to go along with Tru and Kazee.  We are actually deep at corner with young talent w/ upside.

4th & 5th round corners.  Not saying they may not end up contributors, but come on.  

But my main issue is we will have spent 15 million of CAP on backup OL who ideally don’t play much at all.  8 of that 15 million would have been helpful for an otherwise thin defense

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44 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

Brown & Wes could help lead a very good offense.  Can the same be said at backup DE or boundary corner?

We took the corner we wanted - sounded to me like Sheffield was their target all along for corner.  Falcons passed on some corners that were thought to be higher rated by sports media - Isaiah Johnson and Amani Owariyue that were available when Falcons traded up for Sheffield.

So please let's set cornerback to the side.

So let's take the DTs and EDGES that were taken between #45 and #111 - I grant you it's a long list but we could only take one as the other would have been a cornerback - and thus we would be OUT of the OT market - these EDGE/DE/DTs I will list will be in the order they were taken:

  1. <----------FALCONS PICK--------> #45
  2. Ben Banogu, EDGE - TCU (2nd rd/#49 - Indianapolis Colts)
  3. Trysten Hill, DT - UCF (2nd rd/#58 - Dallas Cowboys)
  4. Jachai Polite, EDGE - Florida (3rd rd/#65 - Arizona Cardinals)
  5. DreMont Jones, DT - Ohio State (3rd rd / #68 - NY Jets)
  6. Chase Winovich, EDGE - Michigan (3rd rd / #77 - Denver Broncos)
  7. <--------FALCONS PICK---------> #79
  8. Khalen Saunders, DT - Western Illinois (3rd rd / #84 - KC Chiefs)
  9. Jaylon Ferguson, EDGE - La Tech (3rd rd / #85 - Baltimore Ravens)
  10. OShane Ximines, EDGE - Old Dominion (3rd rd / #95 - NY Giants)
  11. Maxx Crosby, EDGE - E. Michgian (4th rd / #106 - Oakland Raiders)
  12. Anthony Nelson, EDGE - Iowa (4th rd / #107 - Tampa)
  13. <---------FALCONS PICK--------> #111 (traded up from #117 to take Kendall Sheffield)

Seems to me like your frustration is from the trade-up for McGary.   We probably would have taken Kendall Sheffield at #79 had we not done the trade.  We would have definitely taken a cornerback w/ one of those Day#2 picks(if not Sheffield at #79).   Who knows? they might have even taken a lesser OT with one of the picks but I doubt it going off Dimitroff post-draft press conference.

So basically of the 10 guys above,  I have no doubt at least 1-2 of them might turn out - maybe 3-4 - but which ones?  I could definitely see at least half of these guys drafted as an out-an-out BUST and a few more journeyman/back-up types.   Seems like you were very high on Chase Winovich.  Is that your pick off this list?  You only get ONE.....you are on the clock!

Ty Sambrailo is your starting RT, you have no backup OT unless you want to count Gono.

Maybe if we stuck at those two positions I probably would have taken Greedy Williams at #45 and Jaylon Ferguson at #79 - but those guys are both "boom/bust" guys and fills like riskier picks than what we did.

 

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3 hours ago, g-dawg said:

no context to your "bottom 5 defense".   C'mon Vandy - this would be analysis I would expect from some national writer that doesn't follow the Falcons.  To ignore the #1 and the #2 QBs of our defense being gone for most(Deion Jones) and all(Rico Allen) of the year along with our enforcer(Keanu Neal) in the secondary and say "Bottom 5 defense" - is blurring the lines purposely.   I know you know the context - why are you ignoring it here?

Furthermore,  another bone to pick w/ you here - to say  'No sir, that wono't be a "very good draft". At all' - also a misguided statement.   If the players drafted play well and pan out - it will be a GREAT DRAFT - regardless of it didn't contain your preferred defenders.    Whether a draft is GREAT or VERY GOOD or "Not a very good draft at all" - isn't dependent on the positions taken but the players that were drafted.   C'mon Vandy, you are better than this post.

Lol ...you got all of that G from my little push back to your post proclaiming if only our two 1st rounders work out it’s a very good draft?

Okie dokie.

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19 minutes ago, Falconsin2012 said:

4th & 5th round corners.  Not saying they may not end up contributors, but come on.  

But my main issue is we will have spent 15 million of CAP on backup OL who ideally don’t play much at all.  8 of that 15 million would have been helpful for an otherwise thin defense

I will grant you this - and if you could inject truth serum in Dimitroff's veins he would probably say the same - Falcons probably would have been better off only signing ONE of Carpenter/Brown instead of both.

My GUESS would be that Falcons planned on taking an OT in the draft early and not a guard - then when they worked out and studied Lindstrom more they decided that they really, really wanted him.   When they re-signed Sambrailo for RT and signed Carpenter/Brown for LG/RG - they probably weren't planning on taking a guard in Day #1 or Day #2.

 

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41 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

I will see your LOL and raise you a :rolleyes:

LOL 3.0......See my edit to that post, I wasn't finished!

my bigger point is Quinn has backed himself in a corner going with this defense with no significant upgrades in offseason or in draft. It’s gonna be fascinating to see how it all plays out. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

I will grant you this - and if you could inject truth serum in Dimitroff's veins he would probably say the same - Falcons probably would have been better off only signing ONE of Carpenter/Brown instead of both.

My GUESS would be that Falcons planned on taking an OT in the draft early and not a guard - then when they worked out and studied Lindstrom more they decided that they really, really wanted him.   When they re-signed Sambrailo for RT and signed Carpenter/Brown for LG/RG - they probably weren't planning on taking a guard in Day #1 or Day #2.

 

I think so too, plus I personally believe they targeted Wilkins. Lindstrom was next up on their board. 

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9 minutes ago, Vandy said:

I think so too, plus I personally believe they targeted Wilkins. Lindstrom was next up on their board. 

the only reason I don't believe it  is Falcons could have moved up for Wilkins if they really wanted him enough (and they have never been shy about moving up for who they want) - the Falcons seem to have good intel on what team is targeting what player - they had to know WILKINS was the likely pick for Miami Dolphins.

Maybe the Falcons did want Wilkins more(than Lindstrom) but wanted to save their trade-up power for the RT at end of 1st round.   Just rare that Falcons don't use their draft capital for the first player taken as opposed to the second.

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2 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

the only reason I don't believe is Falcons could have moved up for Wilkins if they really wanted him enough (and they have never been shy about moving up for who they want) - the Falcons seems to have good intel on what team is targeting what player - they had to knw WILKINS was the likely pick for Miami Dolphins.

Maybe the Falcons did want Wilkins more(than Lindstrom) but wanted to save their trade-up power for the RT at end of 1st round.   Just rare that Falcons don't use their draft capital for the first player taken as opposed to the second.

That’s what I think....they needed to keep the draft capital so they could grab McGary.

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1 minute ago, Vandy said:

That’s what I think....they needed to keep the draft capital so they could grab McGary.

will be interesting to see how it all turns out.   on TATF, we will probably link WILKINS/LINDSTROM careers together and will be saved for future debates.   If Lindstrom turns out average and Wilkins dominant it could get ugly :D

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9 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

will be interesting to see how it all turns out.   on TATF, we will probably link WILKINS/LINDSTROM careers together and will be saved for future debates.   If Lindstrom turns out average and Wilkins dominant it could get ugly :D

LOL, this is true. Although seriously, I believe both players will do well. Two of safest picks in that draft, don’t you think?

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12 minutes ago, Vandy said:

LOL, this is true. Although seriously, I believe both players will do well. Two of safest picks in that draft, don’t you think?

yes, I think both Lindstrom and Wilkins are safe.  I believe Lindstrom is slightly more safe.

Guards are boring though - nobody gets excited about them.  Basically they are ignored unless they have a blown assignment or a penalty.   Guard is probably the Rodney Dangerfield of NFL positions.

Image result for i get no respect gif

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14 hours ago, g-dawg said:

If you don’t like the draft - my advice is to get over it quickly because - first of all - it’s a sunk cost meaning you cannot change it - second, it may be a lot better than you think - and most important - third - you don’t know near as much as you think you do about these players.

Here Here

Nothing can compare to the epic-ness of the tragedy of Glenn Dorsey.  Someone shold write a play or a ballad to it.  Can you imagine what we would look like today if that move happened?

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24 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

yes, I think both Lindstrom and Wilkins are safe.  I believe Lindstrom is slightly more safe.

Guards are boring though - nobody gets excited about them.  Basically they are ignored unless they have a blown assignment or a penalty.   Guard is probably the Rodney Dangerfield of NFL positions.

Image result for i get no respect gif

The guard positions are boringly important.

But signing two fairly expensive FA guards when we had limited cap space and then turning right around and overdrafting (IMO) another guard at pick #14 coming off the disastrous bottom 5 NFL season our defense had?

For me at least, it calls everything into question 

 

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6 hours ago, Tmodel66 said:

we were going to solve both lines, cornerback, running back and linebacker in one draft.  

i may have wanted those things, but its impossible to do all things at once.  

we might have picked Wilkins, but im glad it went down like it did.  invest money in beef upront and it will have positive ripple marks..

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22 minutes ago, g-dawg said:

Guard is probably the Rodney Dangerfield of NFL positions.

unless you are a guard from Notre Dame

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2 minutes ago, Vandy said:

They are boringly important.

But signing two fairly expensive FA guards when we had limited cap space and then turning right around and overdrafting (IMO) another guard at pick #14 coming off the disastrous season bottom 5 NFL season our defense had?

For me at least, it calls everything into question 

 

Keanu Neal was overdrafted as well per the pundits

Deion Jones was overdrafted.

be careful with that "overdrafted" lingo.

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