Jpowers

Not the new Donald Trump Presidency thread

26,327 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, The Legendary SB said:

OK.  And Trump has not taken any military action thus far.  His history is very non-interventionist.  

Oh and Trump has the final say on using force, not Bolton.  

He ordered operations to bomb Iran until he changed his mind a few minutes before the planes were set to launch.

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Just now, The Legendary SB said:

OK.  And Trump has not taken any military action thus far.  His history is very non-interventionist.  

Oh and Trump has the final say on using force, not Bolton.  

Because the American population didn't buy it. Even his die hard supporters found it obvious. He brings Bolton one of the foremost warhawks in the world who authored Iraq and pushed for Iran aggressively into his cabinet and the next week iran tried to start a war?? Lol really?? 

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Just now, T-Falcon said:

Because the American population didn't buy it. Even his die hard supporters found it obvious. He brings Bolton one of the foremost warhawks in the world who authored Iraq and pushed for Iran aggressively into his cabinet and the next week iran tried to start a war?? Lol really?? 

I don't buy it until it actually happens.

Until he attacks Iran, he remains non-interventionist.

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3 minutes ago, The Legendary SB said:

I don't buy it until it actually happens.

Until he attacks Iran, he remains non-interventionist.

Why bring Bolton in? If you are not an interventionist why bring in the worlds leading interventionist?

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35 minutes ago, bdog 29 said:

Do you think charities had/have the staff and resources to provide adequate care to the indigent population of the United States? In fact the charities you mentioned still exist. Why aren't they serving as that now? And if I know I can go to those charities in the event I need healthcare, why would I even get insurance? And who would be there to say I make too much to use the Red Cross for my checkups? The ACA had the individual mandate which kinda did what you're saying and look how that turned out. Republicans got rid of it.

As far as churches and charities in general, I think it was TD Jakes who talked about this one time. A church is supposed to stand in to provide these services, that is their Christian and moral duty and many churches do. But a local church gets somewhere around 10% of their congregation's income, if the congregants are even faithful givers. Whereas the government gets 15-30% of everyone's incomes, no matter what religion they are. The church should do what they can but the government has much more power to help people and provide these services than the church.

I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to entrust my or my family's healthcare to the kindness of strangers.

No charities do not currently have the staff and resources.  Sometime in the past we started voting for the government to take money out of people's pocket at gunpoint instead of giving to charities.  

And yes the church should help.  

 

35 minutes ago, bdog 29 said:

I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to entrust my or my family's healthcare to the kindness of strangers.

Charitable clinics with tax breaks and subsidies.  There should be many.

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1 minute ago, T-Falcon said:

Why bring Bolton in? If you are not an interventionist why bring in the worlds leading interventionist?

Because Bolton has a lot of experience at the position both during war time and peace time?

As a good negotiator Trump should always have the threat of war in his pocket but be very reluctant to use it.

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1 minute ago, The Legendary SB said:

Because Bolton has a lot of experience at the position both during war time and peace time?

As a good negotiator Trump should always have the threat of war in his pocket but be very reluctant to use it.

Bolton only has one set of experience being the author of war in the middle East

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1 minute ago, T-Falcon said:

Bolton only has one set of experience being the author of war in the middle East

OK...but Trump the mostly non-interventionist is the one with the final say.

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9 minutes ago, The Legendary SB said:

I don't buy it until it actually happens.

Until he attacks Iran, he remains non-interventionist.

 

5 minutes ago, T-Falcon said:

Why bring Bolton in? If you are not an interventionist why bring in the worlds leading interventionist?

Sure does look like he wants to start a war with Iran, but he might just really want it to look like he's trying to start war with Iran. It goes with the theme I'm talking about; it splits progressives/most politically unengaged Americans that don't want another war with centrists/corporate media who are open to the idea.

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Just now, The Legendary SB said:

No charities do not currently have the staff and resources.  Sometime in the past we started voting for the government to take money out of people's pocket at gunpoint instead of giving to charities.  

And yes the church should help.  

 

Charitable clinics with tax breaks and subsidies.  There should be many.

I'd have to look it up, but I'm pretty sure income taxes have existed just about forever. And are you saying that if taxes were lowered, people will pay the difference to charity? Because human nature tells me that ain't happening.

And I guarantee you no tax breaks or subsidies will be enough to make up the difference. I worked for Emory before and while I did not know our exact costs, I knew that my division alone was spending $15 million per year just on provider salaries per year. A non-profit which provides adequate healthcare for the uninsured population of America would need magnitudes more. No non-profit can maintain that without significant investment from the government.

And even then, tax breaks and subsidies are ultimately the government subsidizing healthcare for a huge portion of the population. How is that any different than Medicare, Medicaid, or any other government run system?

Like I said, just make peace with the fact that we'll just have to let people die and let's get over this charade. 

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3 minutes ago, Serge said:

 

Sure does look like he wants to start a war with Iran, but he might just really want it to look like he's trying to start war with Iran. It goes with the theme I'm talking about; it splits progressives/most politically unengaged Americans that don't want another war with centrists/corporate media who are open to the idea.

War makes for good ratings on the news channels...  <_<

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9 minutes ago, lostone said:

Just disgusting 

 

JFC, underlying that message is "if you're a LEGAL immigrant who is currently a US CITIZEN and disagree with Trump, he WANTS TO SEND YOU BACK."

Graham just said Trump wants to deport US citizens who immigrated here legally because they criticize the president.

Let that sink in.

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3 minutes ago, bdog 29 said:

I'd have to look it up, but I'm pretty sure income taxes have existed just about forever. And are you saying that if taxes were lowered, people will pay the difference to charity? Because human nature tells me that ain't happening.

And I guarantee you no tax breaks or subsidies will be enough to make up the difference. I worked for Emory before and while I did not know our exact costs, I knew that my division alone was spending $15 million per year just on provider salaries per year. A non-profit which provides adequate healthcare for the uninsured population of America would need magnitudes more. No non-profit can maintain that without significant investment from the government.

And even then, tax breaks and subsidies are ultimately the government subsidizing healthcare for a huge portion of the population. How is that any different than Medicare, Medicaid, or any other government run system?

Like I said, just make peace with the fact that we'll just have to let people die and let's get over this charade. 

Income tax has been around since 1916.  Various levels of government interference in the healthcare market have gradually increased since then culminating with the horrible ACA.

I agree that healthcare costs are ridiculous and out of control right now when is why I've been advocating more free market principles into that market.  You know....the free market principles that have historically advanced technology and lowered costs more than any economic system in the history of planet earth.  

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So wait, SB wants to go back to a system where people pay directly to health care providers out of pocket.  

Which means SB wants the government to eliminate all private insurance companies.  

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1 minute ago, The Legendary SB said:

Income tax has been around since 1916.  Various levels of government interference in the healthcare market have gradually increased since then culminating with the horrible ACA.

I agree that healthcare costs are ridiculous and out of control right now when is why I've been advocating more free market principles into that market.  You know....the free market principles that have historically advanced technology and lowered costs more than any economic system in the history of planet earth.  

I feel like you just circled back to your original argument without critically examining the holes in it which I've pointed out.

The free market works when you are ok with those who cannot afford the product or service not receiving it. You said charities can pick up the slack, I said that charities do not have the infrastructure to do that.

So where do we go from here? Do we just concede that in order for the healthcare market to truly be free, we have to allow people to die or are you going to think of some more ways to make it work?

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9 minutes ago, bdog 29 said:

I feel like you just circled back to your original argument without critically examining the holes in it which I've pointed out.

The free market works when you are ok with those who cannot afford the product or service not receiving it. You said charities can pick up the slack, I said that charities do not have the infrastructure to do that.

So where do we go from here? Do we just concede that in order for the healthcare market to truly be free, we have to allow people to die or are you going to think of some more ways to make it work?

Look again I'm not saying make all healthcare out of pocket immediately.  The costs are too ridiculous right now.

Making it MORE free market and involving charities MORE is a long term goal, not a short term goal.  That's the direction we should be moving.  We're not going to get there tomorrow.

The other alternative (single payer) is awful.  Good luck waiting months or years for an MRI.

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8 minutes ago, Leon Troutsky said:

JFC, underlying that message is "if you're a LEGAL immigrant who is currently a US CITIZEN and disagree with Trump, he WANTS TO SEND YOU BACK."

Graham just said Trump wants to deport US citizens who immigrated here legally because they criticize the president.

Let that sink in.

 

Trump-Caesar-by-Stein-Olsen.jpg

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