Jpowers

Not the new Donald Trump Presidency thread

25,560 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Doozer said:

This is interesting, because I thought it might actually be possible, but the math seemed off.

1.5 trillion isn't a correct number. It's just outstanding debt, not the actual cost of education since many students don't take out loans, or are paying it off. You need to use the cost of attending per year.

Plus, if college is free, that means that more students will attend.

Let's do the math.

About 4,000,000 students graduate high school per year.

Since it's free, we can assume that everyone will want to go to their dream school. Private, out of state costs per student is $50,900 (total) per year. But if we force kids to go cheap, that can be as low as  $25,290 for in state, public college.

Multiply that by 4 if we want to provide 4 year degrees

So that range is around $814 Billion to $405 Billion per year.

Multiply that by 18x since we want to compare it to Military spending since 2001...

The total cost is between $14.7 and $7.3 Trillion

While the $5.9 Trillion also includes 1 trillion in future obligatory payments, we can only transfer 4.9 trillion that was already spent, half of which we can't even use, because it includes costs that would have been spent anyway.... but lets take it all regardless.

We are left with between $9.8 to $2.4 trillion in new debt. Not counting Washington DC's administrative cut. 

I guess we can cut into the Military's total $650Billion dollar budget completely...

Yes I didn't say the cost of free college I said the crippling debt students currently have. Not free college for all. Though its not outside the realm of possibility some states are already starting free community college.

Edited by T-Falcon

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1 minute ago, The Legendary SB said:

What the heck does the Area51 meme have to do with capitalism?

Really reaching there.  

 

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21 minutes ago, The Legendary SB said:

I warned you about that.  Fasting burns a lot of fat AND muscle.  Plus not lifting for a year...  

If you want to cut fat and preserve muscle just eat only lean meats (chicken or fish) and green veggies instead of a complete fast.  

If you want to fast I'd use intermittent fasting.  Specifically the leangains method:

https://leangains.com/the-leangains-guide/

The exact advice I gave him yesterday.

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Just now, The Legendary SB said:

Stopped reading at "Marxist economist".  That's an oxymoron.  

Doesn't mean much from the guy who wants healthcare to be out of pocket lol

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1 minute ago, eatcorn said:

Cool. Steve's taken time off from being a racist to spam the boards some more.

Reported.

OK no I didn't but I'll ask nicely to stop with the personal attacks as I cannot respond in kind as I am on double secret probation.  

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1 minute ago, Psychic Gibbon said:

Doesn't mean much from the guy who wants healthcare to be out of pocket lol

Not possible right away with the current insane costs but eventually ya.

Start with stuff like the CVS minute clinic and expand up from there.  

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Just now, The Legendary SB said:

Reported.

OK no I didn't but I'll ask nicely to stop with the personal attacks as I cannot respond in kind as I am on double secret probation.  

It's a matter of factual, public record. 

You don't get to excuse racist behavior, and mock efforts to address it, and not be called out for what you are. 

And stop with the childish picture meme spam, while you're at it.

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Just now, The Legendary SB said:

Reported.

OK no I didn't but I'll ask nicely to stop with the personal attacks as I cannot respond in kind as I am on double secret probation.  

That is how the left fights, they can say whatever they want and the fake/scm/Dems don't call them out.

Same happens here, we get called stuff all the time as they race-bait, race-shame us into what they hope is submission, while not being called out for it by their own lemmings.

We know it's not true as do they, but it is.part of their playbook.

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9 minutes ago, T-Falcon said:

Yes I didn't say the cost of free college I said the crippling debt students currently have. Not free college for all. Though its not outside the realm of possibility some states are already starting free community college.

States with small populations tend to have a problem with young people going to college with state-provided scholarships and then leaving the state for employment elsewhere.  So some small (and Republican!) states already provide de facto free college to state residents, but then they lose the tax revenue when those people leave.

I’ve always thought that free tuition coupled with a small income tax (1-3%) for any income earned outside the state that’s paying for college would be a way for these smaller states to create a steady revenue stream while providing college at a much cheaper rate for students (e.g., no tuition and thus no loans).  

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1 hour ago, lostone said:

Did my first 5x5 in over a year.  Good lord I’ve lost it.  My ego was murdered.

 

will respond back once I am at respectable numbers

I recently got back into lifting and it was very humbling. I knew I was probably not going till be able to throw up what I once did, but since I'm grappling most everyday I didn't think I was losing that much strength. I was mistaken. 

Lifting is it's own skill. If you don't do it, you'll lose it. No matter what else you're doing. 

lostone and falconsd56 like this

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1 minute ago, The Legendary SB said:

Image may contain: 1 person, smiling, meme, eyeglasses and text

Funny thing is, they were the straw that broke the Camel's healthcare back. Then they think we trust them to fix what they broke in the first place.

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8 minutes ago, The Legendary SB said:

Image may contain: text that says 'DEMOCRATIC PLATFORM FOR THE YEAR 2020 SOCIALISM KILL BABIES RAISE TAXES OPEN BORDERS DEFUND MILITARY TAKE AWAY GUNS WEAKEN ECONOMY DEFEND LLEGALALIENS SUPPRESS FREE SPEECH REPARATIONS FOR SLAVERY REMOVE ELECTORAL COLLEGE WHO, IN THEIR RIGHT MIND, WOULD SUPPORT THIS GARBAGE?'

The answer is many people in this thread....

You'll post this kind of stuff, but then get the vapors if someone suggests that the GOP uses racist rhetoric. 

Cool. 

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2 minutes ago, WhenFalconsWin said:

Funny thing is, they were the straw that broke the Camel's healthcare back. Then they think we trust them to fix what they broke in the first place.

It was the government that broke healthcare? Not greedy overpriced pharmaceuticals and financial games played between the insurance cos and medical providers to get more? There's a reason that even before ACA Tylenol was 5 dollars at the store for a bottle and $30 at the hospital for a pill.

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Just now, T-Falcon said:

It was the government that broke healthcare? Not greedy overpriced pharmaceuticals and financial games played between the insurance cos and medical providers to get more? There's a reason that even before ACA Tylenol was 5 dollars at the store for a bottle and $30 at the hospital for a pill.

Starting with the HMO act in the 70s, yes the government broke healthcare.  It is not even remotely benefiting from the rewards of capitalism because it's not allowed to.  No free market competition...  All collectivist regulatory nonsense.  

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2 minutes ago, T-Falcon said:

It was the government that broke healthcare? Not greedy overpriced pharmaceuticals and financial games played between the insurance cos and medical providers to get more? There's a reason that even before ACA Tylenol was 5 dollars at the store for a bottle and $30 at the hospital for a pill.

giphy.gif

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5 minutes ago, The Legendary SB said:

Starting with the HMO act in the 70s, yes the government broke healthcare.  It is not even remotely benefiting from the rewards of capitalism because it's not allowed to.  No free market competition...  All collectivist regulatory nonsense.  

At the provider level is has more to do with Nixon lifting regulations that prevented hospitals from operating as for-profit entities and EMTALA. Hospitals jacked up prices to make the profits they were now allowed to make and then they got hit by being forced to treat people without coverage and no government program to compensate them, so they jacked up prices even more to deal with that sunk cost.

At the insurance level, it's just a failed market... much like the out of pocket system it replaced.

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Pretty much any system that relies on a third party to make payments for services is going to experience inflation in cost. With healthcare, once someone meets a co-pay or deductible, and they aren't responsible for paying the balance, they no longer care about the cost and there is little motivation from either side to keep prices down. This is exacerbated by providers further increasing prices to cover losses from Medicare, Medicaid, and indigent patients. 

We're seeing this in higher education now. So many are now paying for college through loans, grants, scholarships, etc that prices have inflated rapidly because no one has an interest in controlling costs. That's how you get $300 textbooks.

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3 minutes ago, Psychic Gibbon said:

At the provider level is has more to do with Nixon lifting regulations that prevented hospitals from operating as for-profit entities and EMTALA. Hospitals jacked up prices to make the profits they were now allowed to make and then they got hit by being forced to treat people without coverage and no government program to compensate them, so they jacked up prices even more to deal with that sunk cost.

At the insurance level, it's just a failed market... much like the out of pocket system it replaced.

We've already been over this many times so agree to disagree.

That said I'm sick of this kind of rhetoric:

1. Implement government regulations (HMOs, ACA, etc...) to remove any semblance of a free market in health care.  Not that if there's no "shopping" and no "competition" then it's not free market.  That's your first clue.

2. Cry and blame the "free market" for healthcare costs.  

No the free market isn't the reason that healthcare costs are high.  There is no free market in healthcare.  

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1 minute ago, Gritzblitz 2.0 said:

Pretty much any system that relies on a third party to make payments for services is going to experience inflation in cost. With healthcare, once someone meets a co-pay or deductible, and they aren't responsible for paying the balance, they no longer care about the cost and there is little motivation from either side to keep prices down. This is exacerbated by providers further increasing prices to cover losses from Medicare, Medicaid, and indigent patients. 

We're seeing this in higher education now. So many are now paying for college through loans, grants, scholarships, etc that prices have inflated rapidly because no one has an interest in controlling costs. That's how you get $300 textbooks.

Bingo.  Somebody gets it.

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